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ABUSE CRISIS: ACLU : Bush Authorized Torture

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posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:22 PM
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Dr, let someone strip your clothes, bring on the hungry dogs to sniff while you're being sodomized and see what YOU call it if it isnt outright ABUSE of the grocest nature




posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
Dr, let someone strip your clothes, bring on the hungry dogs to sniff while you're being sodomized and see what YOU call it if it isnt outright ABUSE of the grocest nature


FYI to all, I was a POW in Cambodia for 10 months in 1975. Remember the Khmer Rouge? I understand torture. I have a little knowledge base here. Goodnight to all. Thats the most I have said about it in years.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:27 PM
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Vallhal,

Maybe you should have read it more indepth yourself:

A two-page FBI e-mail refers to "a presidential executive order," and contends President Bush directly authorized interrogation techniques that included sleep deprivation, stress positions, the use of military dogs and "sensory deprivation through the use of hoods, etc.," The ACLU said.

Do you see the "Quoted" part of that statement? When something is qouted, it's usualy common sense to assume it came from an external source pertaining to the issue, which in this case, is the FBI document.

I don't think they would manipulate an exact qoute.

Deep

[edit on 21-12-2004 by ZeroDeep]



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
You want specific answers and you got one, Kidfinger.

Um... No. Your answer was vague as to your support of Bush approving the use of torture.


Do you like it? Apparently not.

There was nothing to like or dis like as you never gave a clear answer.


Do you want a 'yes' or'no'? Apparently so.


Yes, now you're getting it




You won't get a singular type 'no' or 'yes' from me.

Well, you almost got it. Imagine that. Kind of like trying to get a straight answer from Bush




I have stated my opinion, and in no way does my opinion fully or totally justifies the Bush Administration.


Oh c'mon! Give me a break please.
What, If you wake up and its sunny outside you support him, and if its rainy you dont? C'mon, why is it so hard to either support your fearless leader, or not support him? Yes or no. Are you feeling kind of iffy as to wether the right person is in office?


Its really not that hard. Im not asking wether you support torture. Im asking if you support Bush approving the use of it. Now either quit beating around the "Bush" (hehe couldnt help it) and give a straight answer. Either you support his approval for torture, or you admit it is the wrong thing fo the US to be doing.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:32 PM
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Thank you! Thank you for quoting exactly what made my point.

*The above anti-U.S. govt commercial was brought to you by some one who really doesn't give a car to what the truth is...just what their agenda is.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...*

it does NOT say - beat the puss out of them, rape them, have dogs bite them or attack them, kill them, or pose them in sexual positions.

*Brought to you by the campaign to deny ignorance.*



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:35 PM
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Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." -- 8th Amendment to the US Constitution.

President Bush has acted illegally in signing an order authorizing the use of torture.

You're welcome, vallhall, your point?

These are my observations of the abuse throughout this war. And they are true.

Glad i made your night.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:36 PM
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Well, well, well!

I see the Bush-bashing hasn't stopped!

IMHO, President Bush didn't do anything wrong by authorizing this executive order.

It's about time we have a president who will dish out the kind of medicine that the enemy has been dishing out to the civilized world for years on end.

So please tell me anti-Bush people, what are we suppose to do with people that their only purpose in life is to kill us?

Oooh! I remember now! Give them milk and cookies, a pat on the back and commend them for a fine job they're doing at killing innocent people!

We can release all the prisoners, give them back their weapons, send them back from whence they came and ignor them.

Maybe, just maybe they'll leave us alone! NOT!



[edit on 21/12/04 by Intelearthling]



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:36 PM
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For anyone that hasn't seen the FBI document, here it is:

www.aclu.org...


Note that it is careful to segregate:

* practices already on the table from new practices
* abuse and other forms of treatment in the gray category
* what specific practices that would fall in the category of abuse require high-level authority to employ them.



As has been noted by international organizations from well before any leaked photos of Abu Ghraib created sensational reactions that were quickly repressed into the unconscious of "god-fearing Americans", on issues of the rights of prisoners and torture methods to be used, the Bush administration has thrown the law and international conventions out the window, has written its own immoral codes of conduct, and has considered itself above reproach and untouchable in the face of its criminality.

[edit on 21-12-2004 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:39 PM
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I agree that one type of interrogation compare to deprivation is two different things.

Now as to the degradation of the interrogation if it was authorized by the executive order then that is something we need our president to answer us the people of this country.

He has a duty to tell us as why he would do such a thing, he is not a god after all even when he think himself one.

And now I see why Rusmfeld will take the criticism, because he knows what is going on he knew all along and probably they were having a good time at it too he, cheney and Bush.

Sick, sick, sick.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:43 PM
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Granted, Vallhall, the syntactics sound a "bit" manipulative, these torture methods would not have gone unoticed by higher officials, not since the information would have been allocated to senior officials accordingly. This prison was built outside of legal jurdistiction to waver any laws against unlawfull constraint, inprisonment, and everything that would be a violation to not only Geneva, but many other Human Right treatise; and, when the president has called for U.S. citizens and soldiers to be exempt from Human Right violations, one has a very rancor image of this administration.

You can try to insinuate that ACLU is manipulative, but remember, you have not given me a reason to believe this, other than a so called dialectical verbiage.

I see no reason to believe they manipulated the report, and beyond that, it does not justify the reports of abuse --one of thousands commited by U.S. officials during this whole illegal and unjustified war.

Deep



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
Well, well, well!

I see the Bush-bashing hasn't stopped!




If pointing out that Bush is authorizing torture for the purpose of gaining info is Bush bashing, then your absolutly right. It hasnt stopped. All you people, though few, that do support this notion, how about e just get them all in the same place and nuke it and be done with it.
Save on money and manpower. Not to mention, it would be a violent death for all those involved. This is after all what is being stated as a reason for support of this. They started it, so we get to do it too? Lets just nuke the whole world, kill everybody, and that way, every one gets tortured by a violent and painfull death. This way, we can surley get those responsible. After all, whats a little collateral damage.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid

Originally posted by dgtempe
quote]

FYI to all, I was a POW in Cambodia for 10 months in 1975. Remember the Khmer Rouge? I understand torture. I have a little knowledge base here. Goodnight to all. Thats the most I have said about it in years.
Then of all people, for the love of God, you should be against it.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:45 PM
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Well, once again, and as hard as it is to do...thanks MA! You prove my point a second time.

The Executive Order did not state "abuse prisoners"...it did give greater bounds outside of the FBI, but it did not give permission for the abusive acts taken by the MPs at Abu Ghraib.

*yawn, sigh, shmack shmack shmack*

[edit on 12-21-2004 by Valhall]



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:49 PM
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Intelearthling.

Tell me what the Iraqi people has done to you or to Mr. Bush that you applaud the type of abused used by this administration in Iraq.

Tell me, I dare you to tell me what they had done to any of us in the US.

This administration has not only abuse them but has destroyed their country in the name of "Democracy and liberation" yes for the same abuses that later he authorized on the same people he was "liberating"

How could you still defend the actions of these horrible man and find it justify, you know I am disgusted and I am not a "Christian"

How about you, are you a God fearing Christian? I wonder how many christians will agree we this type of torture I bet is not many. Most christian people are good people that value other human beings.

Shame on anyone that agree with all these sickness.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:54 PM
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Vallhall,

You should read that report one more time: It clearly states 2/3 down the first page, that President Bush signed an executive order authorizing the use of the following interrogation techniques: Sleep "Management", Use of WMDs (Military Work Dogs), "Stress Positions", "Eviromental Manipulation" and "Sensory Deprivition", such as HOODS..

It's all there. Don't deny that.

Deep



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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It's about time we have a president who will dish out the kind of medicine that the enemy has been dishing out to the civilized world for years on end.



For example?

Many of you don't understand the simple point that America is considered the moral edifice on this planet.

Deep



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 09:01 PM
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as posted by Kidfinger
Im asking if you support Bush approving the use of it.


First off, Kidfinger, you need to show me were Bush has approved of the use of torture. Secondly, do you have a working link to that certain "presidential executive order" or directive that "contends President Bush directly authorized interrogation techniques that included sleep deprivation, stress positions, the use of military dogs and "sensory deprivation through the use of hoods, etc."?

Again, I gave my answer. Whether you like it or not is a personal matter.
But in all fairness, since you want a simple 'yes' or
no,' I give it to you when you produce said directive or actual executive order that Bush sanctioned or authorized the use of controversial methods, k? Probably still won't change my answer, but seeing this actual directive or executive order would be great.




seekerof

[edit on 21-12-2004 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 09:02 PM
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I think the term "torture" has aquired one of those kneejerk hysterical responces in some anti war people.

From what I read it was mostly sleep deprivation, food and clothing deprivation, and other "mild" things.

This hardly amounts to torture as seen under Saddam, and others.

Hysterical overreactions fueled by political ambitions and agendas.

I don't think the abuses at Abu Grahib were signed off by Bush.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by Netchicken


I don't think the abuses at Abu Grahib were signed off by Bush.
No one wants to believe that our president, the president of the United States of America would do this.

But he has.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

First off, Kidfinger, you need to show me were Bush has approved of the use of torture. Secondly, do you have a working link to that certain "presidential executive order" or directive that "contends President Bush directly authorized interrogation techniques that included sleep deprivation, stress positions, the use of military dogs and "sensory deprivation through the use of hoods, etc."?



Go to the link Masked Avatar provided. I cant quote it because its a PDF file. It states at the bottom of page onw, and the top of page two that an EXECUTIVE ORDER authorized such actions. Now, whats your answer?



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