Exceptional tax cuts for rich 'good for economy': practice fails - theory is broken

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I think your reasoning is sound; and the truth of the human experience lends a lot of credence to the notion that trying to create a system free of the tendency is a fool's quest.

I suspect that actual competition should have been the equalizer we needed. Except those entrusted with great opportunity for mischief began the process of working together for their own benefit tipped the scales... egregiously.

The social dead-end invention of notions like 'royalty' and 'peerage' and even to some degree 'brotherhoods' bred immediate opportunistic behavior in people who were, for whatever illogical reasoning, considering themselves 'of more immediate consequence' than others, began to act in a manner to extend the benefits of their social position to their progeny. The rest of us worked for a living. I believe that is the beginning of disparity.

Our societies host many cloistered collections of people. And being insanely rich must necessitate the seeking of like kind, few can long contend with being isolated from all society... we need freed-back to survive.

This socially destructive bad habit is cherished and protected by many. Much - group think - and traditions support the fear-porn of being powerless, without money and oppressed... thus the fear leads to hoarding. our specie (unit of currency) is virtual... so hoarding has no limit... it's the perfect tool to create disparity in the first place.

None of it had to be so. It was a plan, an actual agenda, with conspirators and high crime... worthy of scorn. But never mind the spilled milk; Right know we must ask at what point does the customer have a right to demand to know 'exactly' what the Central banks and Federal Reserve are doing. But to do that we must accept that they will shut down the markets (the virtual ones.) We have a situation here. There is infinite "virtual" currency... trillions (for now) and 99% is "off the books." But there is only so much currency to circulate (and they've been drawing back the amount for a while now.) So how will we live without a bank, and a wuss of a government that WILL not print money for our country?

We will make our own currency - that's what. That is now the current strategy of the globalist bank cartel... by the way... they want to make what happened in Iceland NEVER happen again. The got kicked in the nuts... and they deserved it.... (but of course they made our innocent British friends pay for it... imagine that!)... even when they lose they win. Their colleagues in Iceland were not so lucky... was that justice?... I could never say.

Our political institution are entrenched in the belief that life without the current banking overlords would be chaos: they fear true competition; as do most who accumulate power.

Social cooperatives for markets and commerce could evolve... A state-by-state movement to establish an independent banking body free from the usurious overlords perhaps? Sure we could survive... but the bank would virtually rebel... there would be wars... "which could not be avoided"; thousand of activists pushing for this cause will - in one way or another - lose their voices; the media will ridicule at first, but over five or six months they would pretend they were forced to say and do the things they did to us.

It would be very hard for many people. I mean hard as in; how can I feed my family; where will i get my medicine?

The winning trick will be within one of the largest body of employees in the nation. Government employees... they will have to be the heroes now. I guess that this may seem discouraging news to many. However I feel that if we can assemble, as communities...if we can immediate establish a free people's network for communications... yes we could survive it and come back stronger than ever...

I think it sounds rather like how they described communist revolution to us in media and school... well it worked for them... that doesn't mean the only people who can use a technique are it's inventors. No one at our stage of civilization is stupid enough to actually believe that anyone's "theory" of how it has to happen has to be as they proclaim - even within the theory. Proof? Trickle down, Keynesian, Supply-Side, Reaganomics... VooDoo Economics. Their alleged brilliance has brought us low. We must learn, we must remember - tell our kids... they are full of crap. They are masters of making assumptions within a deeply flawed and even malignant banking scheme; demonstrably for the benefit of the owners (99% for ?, 1% for us.) Communism gave rise to oligarchies more renowned for their wet-work (body count) than almost any other form; and frankly...

Any systematization of human "market" economy that is built on a flawed system of exchange will eventually fail. Because as you said... this crap turns up everywhere. People are so easily seduced into believing they deserve 'more' in the first place... add to that the consumerist transformation of our "market" culture; bang... "I'm the big wheel - I'm more equal." To be fair, I don't care if that's what you think... but when you grow fat as those around you struggle we should not be forced to not say something about it. This is what gives rise to competition... it works - unless the big cheese get together and make a plan... think of this example: Have you ever seen Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola on sale side-by-side... it's usually one week one, the next the other... anywhere in history that is referred to as a dishonest marketing practice.

The truth is you don't have to be selfish to survive as a people. That's an animal thing. To be a human being can be specifically characterized by a compulsion or bias favoring cooperative behavior. It's the fear of tomorrow, of consequences, that drives of towards darker perspectives.

My consternation is with a people who have all the data ... even as the data is being choked off over time .... to see that we have been bitch-slapped and robbed; they actually allow those directly responsible for our nations economic health to not act with immediate purpose and intent to illuminate the conspiracy that surely has occurred. I doesn't help that those responsible for oversight are members of the banking community when they are "appointed."

But like high profile assassinations, global banking fraud is something someone too close to the political regime has to answer for... and these folks employ the Chatham House rules... so their ins no accountability whatsoever, they are above the law.

Like I said before, there's lot's of room for mischief.

We allowed ourselves to be convinced that leaders should be great TV personalities, have great resume's (even the fake ones,) should be 'sold' to us as if this was a pageant. We actually believe the press... even knowing the magnitude of their lies in the past, and the continuing bias and fragmentation poison being dribbled into the last great TV generation. Fear porn, you will die, you're not safe, you children will need more money, are you ready for an accident? Who will care for your parents (yeah, that one catches up to us now.)

Hoard it, hoard the money. You can never have enough. They want you to live this way... because it's their money. All of it "borrowed" from nothing. All of the debt being 'serviced' by them... every single cent. Start talking about new money and they pucker... hard.

a reply to: akaal
lol dude. No education needed to understand most of this stuff if not all of it, just a bit of searching, a bit of thinking on it, and basically most of it is common sense. Which is always not in great abundance it seems. But basically what you have here is all the ingredients for the makings of a global economic cast system, all it needs is some time to cook and stew and cement itself, and one day everybody will wake up and question how things got this far. Its pretty much that already to a great degree, only not so concentrated yet.

Actually scratch that, they wont question it because they will have been so ingrained and conditioned into it, generation after generation that it will be normal and the thought will not enter there mind, it will be like fish trying to question why the water is there, well its always been there. So ya. Craziness in cycles.

I came accross this article and thought how similar it is to this conversation.

I'm not really sure if it's ok for me to post a link like this, but I guess i'll find out quick enough.



laphamsquarterly.org...

a reply to: akaal

Excellent example of how long societies have been oblivious to the transgressions against them... and at least that someone is always straining to call out corruption and disparity born of fraud and conspiracy.

Thanks!

apologies - double post

I honestly have no idea what drew me into this thread. Economic disscussions are one of those things that just make. My hair hurt. But, I started reading, had a few questions and... well here I am.

I Thank you Maxmars for the OP and ensuing discussion, thanks also to galadofwarthethird and others for their participation. I thourghly enjoyed the discussion and learned a little to boot.

a reply to: jacobe001

Market economics also work for the products you provide. American's like cheap produce, so paying a high wage for less work just isn't possible.

a reply to: Maxmars

I grew up poor, my family was first generation off the farm. My grandmother rented a converted chicken coop in San Diego while my grandfather was in Japan for the Korean War. My other grandmother lived with her aunt, because her parents lived in a dugout home. We qualified for welfare for the first 9 years of my life, but my parents refused to take it. We were poor, very poor, but that didn't matter, because my parents knew they would not stay poor.

Being poor is a lifestyle decision for most people in the United States. We don't experience real poverty, not like the rest of the world. We have TV shows that feature Americans going to other nations and surviving, they are surviving in a place people live everyday for a chance at 1,000,000. We are so wealthy compared to the rest of the world that we have time to discuss it on the internet.

Do not expect me to feel sorry for anyone, other than the disabled. I don't feel sorry for them either, but instead I accept we have an obligation to take care of them. Beyond that people are responsible for their own lives. You can live it in squalor or you can change that. Just don't expect me to do it for you.

a reply to: Stuship

This attitude cracks me up. Go live on an island and dig sewers, look for water and food all by yourself. We are a society. This attitude would fit well in the ME. Every man for himself.

originally posted by: Stuship
a reply to: jacobe001

Market economics also work for the products you provide. American's like cheap produce, so paying a high wage for less work just isn't possible.

Umm, Now you are just making excuses
If you up the compensation to attract workers, they also now have more money to buy those same goods that cost more.

They could also cut the amount of profits going to shareholders and Management and give it to the workers.

Regardless, We do not live in Market Driven Economy but in Corporatism where Big Business runs to the government to adjust Foreign and Economic Policies to their benefit.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Stuship

This attitude cracks me up. Go live on an island and dig sewers, look for water and food all by yourself. We are a society. This attitude would fit well in the ME. Every man for himself.

People like him just don't get it.
If we all paid for only what we wanted to, Big Business would be the loser.
I would not pay for a Global Military - There goes their defense for overseas investments
I would only pay for gravel roads. There goes their ability to ship widgets shore to shore from other countries and gives the local and regional business more power.

a reply to: Stuship

I am happy to see that I am not the only one who has over the course of a descent through the middle class, resisted relying of public support. I congratulate you on overcoming the social stigma that being poor.

I stated earlier that, in my estimation, definitions of "poor" and "poverty" based upon "metrics" is a fantasy. The truest measure is about how a person can exist within a society where they are so "classed." A good definition must produce the understanding that being "poor" means that without charity of some nature, they cannot overcome their circumstance.

Now, in a world where 99% of all wealth is "cloistered" within some private concern; those who are poor will always languish in poverty.

Feeling sorry for them is not my concern. Those people who recognize themselves as no poor feel sorry (in the context of this subject) nowadays by virtue of media. A media which glorifies vice and corruption, and appears compelled to mock virtue. Don't feel sorry for them. It matters not how you feel. If it mattered, there might be a hope that sorry-minded people would labor to remove the persistent deficit of prosperity and opportunity. But people like to "win," and winners don't worry about losers whom they can they proclaim deserve to be.

Poor is a lifestyle? You hold it as a choice. You believe that for all there is opportunity to prosper? I'm sorry we cannot see eye to eye on that point. I am still daunted by the illusion, or lie, that money is the metric... and it's all about he or she who "has the most."