Tim McGraw's Sandy Hook Show Sparks Controversy

a reply to: Answer

You know, I really resent that. I posted a statement which anybody with half a brain knows is true. Next thing, I've got people jumping up and down with all manner of clichés "GUNS don't kill people, people kill people" and other such tripe, and then yelling "what are your solutions to the GANG problems?" Just utter bullsh!t I didn't sign up for. Whether or not SSRI's are involved or effective. Ya know? Or maybe you don't

This is probably the first time I've posted on a "gun" thread, and most likely never will again.

It's like entering a dog kennel and everybody has rabies.

So, shove it.


eta: I went back to look at your posts. You are only posting ad hominid attacks on other posters. Sorry I wasted my time on you.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: WarminIndy
I am not on either side. You have your gun, but don't sell your gun to pawn shops, because those can be stolen. Don't sell your guns at gun swaps, you don't really know who is buying them. Don't sell your guns from your trunk, anyone can get them. If you have a gun, don't sell it. If you don't need it, take it to the police to destroy it.

Seriously? Pawn shops have to abide by the same rules as any other gun store as it regards storage and sales process for firearms.

What is a "gun swap?" In all my years in the industry, I've never head of a "gun swap."

People can sell their privately owned firearms to anyone they choose and it is their responsibility to make sure that the person is legit. That's the law. I'm sure as hell not going to take my $500 and up possessions to the police to be destroyed. What the hell kind of logic is that?

The problem is that gun owners are losing their guns somehow. Be responsible with your guns. And for goodness sake, don't sell it on craigslist.

That is what I think. Don't sell it on Ebay. Don't sell it on Amazon. You just do not know if someone has stolen identity.

Some gun owners have had their guns stolen out of their home. Even with a gun safe, it is not 100% preventable. Your logic is flawed. Guns are not perishable... there are enough guns floating around the illegal market to last many lifetimes.

Guns can not be sold on eBay, Amazon, or Craigslist because those sites have a policy against it. Please, try to know just a tiny bit about the subject before you go off on a rant.

Yes, craiglist has a policy, it also has a policy not to pimp out children for sex, but guess what, there have been people who did that very thing. _javascript:external()

But here gunbroker.com , while they might make sure the dealer is honest, how do they know I am?

By Federal Law, firearms can only be shipped to an FFL Holder. If you do not have an FFL, you must make arrangements with an FFL Holder in your state to handle the transfer. We maintain a list of FFL Holders who are willing to handle transfers for qualified buyers. Please contact an FFL Holder before placing a bid to make sure you qualify.

OK, I don't have an FFL, I go find someone who does. They ship it to them, then my friend gives it to me.

We can bring new customers to you! As an FFL holder, you may be listed in our FFL Holder Network. By joining this list, you are indicating that you are willing to handle firearms transfers for buyers in your state. Joining our FFL Holder Network gives you free customers! Buyers will contact you and inquire as to whether you are willing to handle a transfer for them. You may charge a fee to handle the transfer. Once you have the buyer in your shop, you can upsell ammunition, accessories, range time, shooting instruction, and other firearms. You get a qualified firearms buyer in your area, and you make money in the process! We do not charge a fee to be added to our FFL Holder Network. Click Here to fill out our online signup form.

OK, get your FFL friend to join the network.

The seller will send you instructions on making payment and will request your address for shipping. Typically you will be required to prepay using a money order, although some sellers will take credit cards, personal checks, COD, etc. Make sure that you follow the seller's payment instructions carefully. We suggest that if possible you use a US Post Office money order and send payment by US Mail. The US Post Office may be able to help you in case of problems with the seller.

I then use a fake ID and send them money or a money order or persona check that has been stolen from some lovely old granddad who doesn't even know I stole them.

Then my friend with the FFL gets the gun, gives it to me and then I sell it for double.

And if I can come up with that scheme, imagine others are as well.

Tell me how this has any oversight and assurance that they are really checking me to see if I am legal?

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: Answer

You know, I really resent that. I posted a statement which anybody with half a brain knows is true. Next thing, I've got people jumping up and down with all manner of clichés "GUNS don't kill people, people kill people" and other such tripe, and then yelling "what are your solutions to the GANG problems?" Just utter bullsh!t I didn't sign up for. Whether or not SSRI's are involved or effective. Ya know? Or maybe you don't

This is probably the first time I've posted on a "gun" thread, and most likely never will again.

It's like entering a dog kennel and everybody has rabies.

So, shove it.


eta: I went back to look at your posts. You are only posting ad hominid attacks on other posters. Sorry I wasted my time on you.

You thought I was yelling?

So you don't really like to be disagreed with, noted for future reference.

YES, it is people who are killing people.

So what is your solution to gang violence?

a reply to: WarminIndy

And mind you, I am not against people with guns. I am against how they obtain them illegally.

That is my whole issue, why isn't more done to prevent that?

I wholeheartedly agree with your right to keep and bear arms, you are not the problem. But even if a bad person obtained a gun legally, I can't say they are not allowed to have it.

Hence, that's my problem.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: Answer

You know, I really resent that. I posted a statement which anybody with half a brain knows is true. Next thing, I've got people jumping up and down with all manner of clichés "GUNS don't kill people, people kill people" and other such tripe, and then yelling "what are your solutions to the GANG problems?" Just utter bullsh!t I didn't sign up for. Whether or not SSRI's are involved or effective. Ya know? Or maybe you don't

This is probably the first time I've posted on a "gun" thread, and most likely never will again.

It's like entering a dog kennel and everybody has rabies.

So, shove it.


eta: I went back to look at your posts. You are only posting ad hominid attacks on other posters. Sorry I wasted my time on you.

That's what I thought... no backing up of your opinion.

Where did I post an ad "hominid" attack on anyone?

Disagreeing and/or correcting someone's incorrect opinion is hardly the same as "ad hominid attacks."

Why do people on this forum think that disagreeing with someone is the same as "attacking" them. Have some intestinal fortitude. If you can't handle having your opinion questioned, don't bother posting it at all.

If the best you can offer is "someone can buy a gun at WalMart and murder someone an hour later...", then refraining from posting in gun-related threads is the right idea.

originally posted by: WarminIndy


And mind you, I am not against people with guns. I am against how they obtain them illegally.

That is my whole issue, why isn't more done to prevent that?

There is a lot done to prevent that. The problem is: criminals don't obey the law.

That's what I've been trying to say.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: Answer

You know, I really resent that. I posted a statement which anybody with half a brain knows is true. Next thing, I've got people jumping up and down with all manner of clichés "GUNS don't kill people, people kill people" and other such tripe, and then yelling "what are your solutions to the GANG problems?" Just utter bullsh!t I didn't sign up for. Whether or not SSRI's are involved or effective. Ya know? Or maybe you don't

This is probably the first time I've posted on a "gun" thread, and most likely never will again.

It's like entering a dog kennel and everybody has rabies.

So, shove it.


eta: I went back to look at your posts. You are only posting ad hominid attacks on other posters. Sorry I wasted my time on you.

That's what I thought... no backing up of your opinion.

Where did I post an ad "hominid" attack on anyone?

Disagreeing and/or correcting someone's incorrect opinion is hardly the same as "ad hominid attacks."

Why do people on this forum think that disagreeing with someone is the same as "attacking" them. Have some intestinal fortitude.

If the best you can offer is "someone can buy a gun at WalMart and murder someone an hour later...", then refraining from posting in gun-related threads is the right idea.

You clearly disagreed with me, but I didn't take it as yelling at me.

I think that I did try to justify my statement, it might take several times, but eventually I might say it like I should. Some people on these forums might not be capable of seeing that this is only virtual reality. I don't know you and you don't know me, these are just words on a screen.

IF I wanted to yell, I would DO IT LIKE THIS..but I didn't and neither did you. She shot you down, the anti-gun advocate feels no remorse over shooting with words. That's the same thing people who kill others do, they mentally shoot them first before they ever outrightly kill them.

The other post (not by you) was violent. Those words carried a lot of emotional violence in them.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: WarminIndy
I am not on either side. You have your gun, but don't sell your gun to pawn shops, because those can be stolen. Don't sell your guns at gun swaps, you don't really know who is buying them. Don't sell your guns from your trunk, anyone can get them. If you have a gun, don't sell it. If you don't need it, take it to the police to destroy it.

Seriously? Pawn shops have to abide by the same rules as any other gun store as it regards storage and sales process for firearms.

What is a "gun swap?" In all my years in the industry, I've never head of a "gun swap."

People can sell their privately owned firearms to anyone they choose and it is their responsibility to make sure that the person is legit. That's the law. I'm sure as hell not going to take my $500 and up possessions to the police to be destroyed. What the hell kind of logic is that?

The problem is that gun owners are losing their guns somehow. Be responsible with your guns. And for goodness sake, don't sell it on craigslist.

That is what I think. Don't sell it on Ebay. Don't sell it on Amazon. You just do not know if someone has stolen identity.

Some gun owners have had their guns stolen out of their home. Even with a gun safe, it is not 100% preventable. Your logic is flawed. Guns are not perishable... there are enough guns floating around the illegal market to last many lifetimes.

Guns can not be sold on eBay, Amazon, or Craigslist because those sites have a policy against it. Please, try to know just a tiny bit about the subject before you go off on a rant.

Yes, craiglist has a policy, it also has a policy not to pimp out children for sex, but guess what, there have been people who did that very thing. _javascript:external()

But here gunbroker.com , while they might make sure the dealer is honest, how do they know I am?

By Federal Law, firearms can only be shipped to an FFL Holder. If you do not have an FFL, you must make arrangements with an FFL Holder in your state to handle the transfer. We maintain a list of FFL Holders who are willing to handle transfers for qualified buyers. Please contact an FFL Holder before placing a bid to make sure you qualify.

OK, I don't have an FFL, I go find someone who does. They ship it to them, then my friend gives it to me.

We can bring new customers to you! As an FFL holder, you may be listed in our FFL Holder Network. By joining this list, you are indicating that you are willing to handle firearms transfers for buyers in your state. Joining our FFL Holder Network gives you free customers! Buyers will contact you and inquire as to whether you are willing to handle a transfer for them. You may charge a fee to handle the transfer. Once you have the buyer in your shop, you can upsell ammunition, accessories, range time, shooting instruction, and other firearms. You get a qualified firearms buyer in your area, and you make money in the process! We do not charge a fee to be added to our FFL Holder Network. Click Here to fill out our online signup form.

OK, get your FFL friend to join the network.

The seller will send you instructions on making payment and will request your address for shipping. Typically you will be required to prepay using a money order, although some sellers will take credit cards, personal checks, COD, etc. Make sure that you follow the seller's payment instructions carefully. We suggest that if possible you use a US Post Office money order and send payment by US Mail. The US Post Office may be able to help you in case of problems with the seller.

I then use a fake ID and send them money or a money order or persona check that has been stolen from some lovely old granddad who doesn't even know I stole them.

Then my friend with the FFL gets the gun, gives it to me and then I sell it for double.

And if I can come up with that scheme, imagine others are as well.

Tell me how this has any oversight and assurance that they are really checking me to see if I am legal?

Ok, since you clearly don't understand the system and you seem to be genuine in your quest for knowledge, let me break it down...

FFL holders are federally licensed firearm dealers. They have to abide by all the ATF regulations regarding firearm purchases. Those regulations include keeping a record of all firearms that enter their inventory and a record when those firearms leave their inventory. They have to keep the paperwork on file for every gun sold or transferred through their business.

If you purchase a gun on gunbroker, it is shipped to the FFL holder. The FFL holder then has you come in to fill out a Form 4473 and he enters your information for the FBI instant-background check.

If your answers on the 4473 are acceptable and the background check comes back clear, you leave with the firearm.

If you turn around and sell the firearm for a profit, you are dealing without a license, that's a federal offense.

The FBI is who's checking you to see if you're legal. If you have a friend pick up the firearm, that's a straw purchase which is a federal offense. If you knowingly put false information on the 4473, that's a federal offense. If the FFL tries to do a deal "under the table," that's a federal offense.

The laws are in place, even if you don't know about them.

a reply to: Answer

Exactly. You can legislate all day long. I have yet to meet a criminal who told me they didn't do something because somebody passed a law that made an already illegal act more illegal, or extra illegal, or illegal in a different way.

Dealers will carry enough on them to avoid serious time. Thieves will steal but stay under a felony charge. Or maybe they won't because they don't care.

Passing extra laws doesn't deter crime or help enforce ones already on the books.

Dude, that entire scenario would easily result in the FFL losing his business and probably going to prison, right along side with your fictional self. Especially if the whole purpose was to get the firearm for committing a crime, everyone involved is definitely going down.

A regular person does not just go to their tax collector and get an FFL. Its why in my experience, the only FFL I have ever met are businesses. If it were so easy everyone would be a federally licensed dealer.

How to Become a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL)

Once you have decided to make an application for a federal firearms license (commonly referred to as an “FFL”) you would send the completed application to the ATF post office box listed on the application form, ATF Form 7 – Application for License (FFL). The application must be accompanied by the proper application fee, which you can pay by check, credit card or money order [we do not accept cash). Once the application fee is processed, the FFLC will enter your application information into its database and commence a full review of your application and supporting materials, including fingerprint cards and photographs. The FFLC will review the fingerprint cards you submitted for clarity and, as required by law, will then conduct an electronic background check on all the “responsible persons” you have identified on your application. ATF defines a responsible person as a sole proprietor, partner, or anyone having the power to direct the management, policies, and practices of the business as it pertains to firearms. In a corporation this includes corporate officers, shareholders, board members, or any other employee with the legal authority described above.

The FFLC will then send the applications for new licenses to the nearest ATF field office having responsibility for the area in which your business is located. The field office supervisor will issue an assignment to an Industry Operations Investigator (IOI) who will conduct an in-person interview with you. The IOI will discuss Federal and State and local requirements with you, and go over your application with you to ensure the information is correct and current. The IOI will then prepare a report of his/her interview, the inspection and make a recommendation to either issue you the license or deny the application. Some reasons for denial may include failure to comply with State or local law (such as zoning ordinances), evidence of previous willful violations of the Gun Control Act, or falsification of the application.

The field office supervisor will also review the report and then submit his/her recommendation to the FFLC. Assuming that all background checks have been completed and your business address and proposed business operations are in compliance with State and local law, the FFLC will complete the application processing and issue you the license. [This will take approximately 60 days from the time your application was first received and if the application you submitted was completely and correctly filled out.

Not even your best friend is going to forfeit their business and do prison time so he can sneak you a gat for your crime.

Well Asnwer, you sure re on the ball on this one. Guess we just equally believe in stopping ignorance the moment it pops up. Its ok even if I m just essentially reposting the same facts, the more information we provide the better right?

a reply to: DYepes

I'm a licensed dealer and manufacturer.

It's a massive pain in the ass, expensive, and requires extensive background checks. Once you're licensed, the ATF can inspect your business premises at any time... with or without advance notice. They can audit all of your records any time they want.

Warminindy suffers from a hefty dose of ignorance about the whole thing but at least he's asking the questions and he happens to have a subject matter expert (me) to answer them.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: WarminIndy


And mind you, I am not against people with guns. I am against how they obtain them illegally.

That is my whole issue, why isn't more done to prevent that?

There is a lot done to prevent that. The problem is: criminals don't obey the law.

That's what I've been trying to say.

I agree with you on that.

We need to do more to stop the criminals, the problem is how to do it without infringing their rights. I know it sounds harsh, but if they got a gun legally, we can't say they can't have it.

The more laws made will not change a thing, there has to be a change in the collective mind of society. We need to get to a place of respect and accountability.

Thomas Jefferson framed the Constitution with that in mind, the rights we have are given by responsibility toward those rights. A man votes by conscience, so why not own a gun with that same conscience of responsibility?

originally posted by: WarminIndy


We need to do more to stop the criminals, the problem is how to do it without infringing their rights.

It's easy... enforce the existing laws and put the bastards in prison instead of allowing them to plea bargain for a slap on the wrist.

Change the system so the people who are guilty of nothing but drug use get proper help and not a prison sentence. Leave prisons open for the real criminals.

The more laws made will not change a thing, there has to be a change in the collective mind of society. We need to get to a place of respect and accountability.

Thomas Jefferson framed the Constitution with that in mind, the rights we have are given by responsibility toward those rights. A man votes by conscience, so why not own a gun with that same conscience of responsibility?

The vast majority of gun owners feel that way. Every one I know who has had a firearm stolen felt terrible about a "gun ending up on the street" afterward even if there's nothing they could have done to prevent the theft.

originally posted by: Answer
a reply to: DYepes

I'm a licensed dealer and manufacturer.

It's a massive pain in the ass, expensive, and requires extensive background checks. Once you're licensed, the ATF can inspect your business premises at any time... with or without advance notice. They can audit all of your records any time they want.

Warminindy suffers from a hefty dose of ignorance about the whole thing but at least he's asking the questions and he happens to have a subject matter expert (me) to answer them.

And I appreciate that.

I am a she, by the way, and I really don't know how to obtain guns, because I have never tried to.

I currently live in a government funded building for disabled and elderly, we are forbidden to have guns here. But at the same time, people with relatives that have guns bring them in.

Unfortunately those of us who abide by the rules are left defenseless because the government doesn't see the need for us to have defense. If I were to get a gun and was honest about it, I would be evicted. So much for my rights, but the government has no one here in my building to protect us.

How would I challenge that rule without being evicted?

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Onslaught2996

Easy, the "charity" is not for the "families" it is for a gun control group.

NBC reported that the group of families issued the statement “to clarify the issue for donors who might believe they are directly supporting the victims’ families.” (This does not)

The families are rightfully concerned that the anti-gun group “is at times wrongly assumed to speak for all 26 victims’ families.”

But with the recent statement from half of the victim’s families, that doesn’t seem to be the case. It appears to be more of a fundraising event for a gun-control group with one member, Mark Barden, reportedly dedicating “the rest of his life” to fighting for gun control measures.

The progressive scum bags at the top know gun control is a pipe dream......But they use the liberal fools at the bottom for every penny they are worth.


Gotta love irony.......

a reply to: Answer

Where did I post an ad "hominid" attack on anyone?

Go back and read your posts. You seem to have toned it down now. Good. Now that you are making sense again without all the smartassery, I will come back tomorrow and read them, and can probably learn a thing or two about the gun industry.

g'night.

originally posted by: WarminIndy


How would I challenge that rule without being evicted?

I stand corrected regarding your gender.

Since the building is government-funded, you'd have one hell of an uphill battle.

Frankly, the only way you're going to have a chance fighting that rule would be to request permission to purchase a firearm, receive a denial from whatever group owns the building, and then find a 2nd Amendment-friendly lawyer to take up your case and sue to have your right recognized.

The problems you're going to run into:
1) The courts have held that property owners can prohibit firearms on their property.
2) In your case, the property owner is likely the government... they have a lot of money and lawyers.
3) Lawyers cost money. No offense, but if you're living in a place like that I'm going to assume you don't have a spare $100k to fight the government in court.
4) Even if you took it to court and won, they could still evict you for some other fabricated reason. If you lost, they could do the same.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
You seem to have toned it down now. Good.

I had a cookie.

Please, feel free to read if you want to learn and ask any questions. I thought about starting an "AMA" thread but I can see that turning ugly in a hurry.

a reply to: Answer

The only other idea would be to sue the government for non protection of my safety as a disabled person in their building.

I looked it up...HUD Class Action Suit How did that turn out?

It seems that in Delaware, someone tried to ban guns in HUD buildings but HUD had it overturned. Apparently I do have the right to have a gun in a HUD building if it is for my safety. I live in Indiana.

I will definitely check that out, because there are others in my building who do feel defenseless and are afraid.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: Answer

The only other idea would be to sue the government for non protection of my safety as a disabled person in their building.

I looked it up...HUD Class Action Suit How did that turn out?

It seems that in Delaware, someone tried to ban guns in HUD buildings but HUD had it overturned. Apparently I do have the right to have a gun in a HUD building if it is for my safety. I live in Indiana.

I will definitely check that out, because there are others in my building who do feel defenseless and are afraid.

If you can get multiple people involved and find an attorney to represent you, it's worth a shot if it's not going to cost you a fortune. Stranger things have happened.

If there's no history of break-ins or similar, it will make it more difficult to win, but you might at least get some on-site security.

Your link spoke about HUD trying to sue gun manufacturers and that, basically, HUD was trying to circumvent Congress and push for stricter gun laws in the courts. Doesn't sound like HUD would be on your side at all.