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I for one don't care what Jenner does, as long as he's not harming another person. If being a woman fulfills something in his life he feels is missing -- good for him.
How consumerism disturbs the mind? WTH?
Says you...can you prove it's a myth? If it is a myth - what's your beef with capitalism or consumerism?
If it's a myth - I say Jenner get's to pick his own version of reality - it's as legitimate as anything else
To my mind, the best evidence comes from the clinical sphere, and again and again, people who have contemplated "sex-change" have changed their minds after considering the conflicts they've internalized in their early life relationships.
Imagine for a second what kind of results can be generated from studies that do not take into account the RELATIONAL events of these children in question? The therapeutic literature strongly suggests that the idea of being "in the wrong body" is born of early object relational meanings.
How this element is ignored and not considered - when it is the bread and butter of psychological development - will always lead to naive and false conclusions about development.
I can see you're knowledgeable of this subject, so I suggest you read Adrienne Harris "Gender As Soft Assembly".
Thus far, while research does seem to indicate that there are gender differences in the anterior hypothalamus, in interstitial area 3, this area has more to do with sexual arousal than with 'identification'.
But this, again, is not quite the issue. The issue, at least as it is understood today, is how the Mind-Brain is plastic, both early on and throughout the lifespan (to a lesser extent). The biological rationale of this argument is simple: the organism needs to be PLASTIC in order to adjust itself to the environment. Unlike in plants, where there is no germ/soma divide, animals have 'nervous systems' that allow for the same type of behavioral plasticity demonstrated by plants.
Any person who has practiced mindfulness meditation can attest to the plasticity of their phenomenological experience, and thus, the plasticity of their biological brain.
Harris doesn't seem to be for or against sex-change operations - but as a feminist psychoanalyst, she is interested in deconstructing the idea of "gendered minds", and so, is interested in helping the person understand why they feel they were born into the wrong sex. Oftentimes, or I would argue, in most, if not all cases, the object-relation system of the mind has built some strong positive associations with one sex, and, conversely, negative associations with the other.
The result, overtime, is a person who almost feels "sick" living as the 'wrong' sex.
Of course, for someone not accustomed to neuroscientific studies, it could seem like the issue is settled. It isn't. We haven't even been able to consistently identify emotional-experiences with specific neurological profiles, let alone, associate something as vague as psychological 'masculinity' and 'femininity' with global brain states.
At the most, as far as I know, the best research into male-female differences into the brain comes from Simon Levays study of the hypothalmus and its association with homosexuality.
Again, there is a difference between respecting his needs as a person to live a meaningful life, and his claims that transgender people are in the same category as homosexuals. But are they in the same category? Is it the same? In a sense, it is, but in another sense, it isn't.
Before I argued that all human experience is plastic, including sexual experience. This would mean that the epigenetic-genetic events subtending homosexual/heterosexual/bi-sexual feelings are themselves "plastic". But who speaks of this? LOL. Although this is an acceptable inference for those interested in the phenomena of neuroplasticity, present-day political-correctness wont allow a scientific exploration of this question.
Nevertheless, as mentioned earlier, the psychotherapeutic literature strongly suggests that this issue with 'gender identity' IS NOT BIOLOGICAL - as in, being generated by an irreversible genetic situation - but is as any other neurosis: built over a lifetime.
Take people deathly afraid of germs, who then "somaticize" the feeling of bugs crawling under their skin. Is this "real"? No. The brain-body connection via the vagus allows the brain to "manifest", at least at a sensorial level, what the mind is frenetically anxious about.
Gender, and, in particular, if one has felt oneself to be more naturally inclined to one 'sex', needn't mean that you are in actuality that sex. I myself, for example, have many feminine attributes. And I also believe, if my life history had occurred differently, that I could have been led to the conclusion that I too have a "female brain".
Fortunately, my education has spared me from coming to that fallacious conclusion.
originally posted by: Astrocyte
a reply to: Anyafaj
Yikes! You want to turn this into an epistemological debate?
While I agree each person has a right to find their own meanings in life, the incontrovertible, psychoanalytic fact, is that experiences SHAPE the dynamics of our psychological experiences. This gives experience a very "sequential logic" to it. What we experience NOW, is related to what we experienced BEFORE.
The problem with your claim is your reification of psychological experiences into ontological facts about self. The first problem is the non-existence of any ontological "self"; the second problem is the influence cognition has upon its experiences of itself.
Oftentimes, I encounter people who say "I hate myself". And they'll then say "I am pathetic". When they mean this, they don't mean it as "At this moment, I feel pathetic". No, the unenlightened human mind goes from experience straight to ontology: I am FUNDAMENTALLY, unlikeable, detestable.
The purpose of therapy is to help the person realize the temporality of these sorts of experiences. They stand for just the moment: they do not represent the 'self' in any sense.
It's only when you LOOSEN these identifications, that neuroplastic processes can work their magic. CHANGE DOESN'T HAPPEN under distress. The anxious brain prevents the neurochemical processes that allow psychological (phenomenological) change.
Why do you keep saying this? In a free society anyone can do what they want so long as it doesn't hurt other people (even though I feel these sorts of things have an inimical psychological impact).
Whats harmful is that what Jenner is claiming is simply not true.
originally posted by: JimNasium
a reply to: Anyafaj
Greetings- Do You mean "Momager Kris" the 'Mother' who shopped Her own daughter's sex tape? You mean that one? I once saw an episode where Kris' hairdresser, the one She wrote about having an affair with, that looks remarkably like Khloe, odd.. Then I saw a bit of an episode where they were in a public diner and Khloe wouldn't let Kris out of the booth they were sitting in, Kris ended up soiling Herself and all the group laughed/giggled. A couple of shows later and Kris is seeing a Dr. for Her incontinence, then She tried to work Her "ailment" into an endorsement with Depend™ adult underwear, so is Bruce's 'issue' for real or for reality t.v.?
Riddle Me this?, .... What will be 'The Grand Finale' of sex tape #2? Every time I see the show somebody is either getting peed on, they're peeing their own pants or they want to get where the pee comes out switched around, could the KonASSian Cabal take a step "up" to #2? I'd bet more folks would tune in?
How far does Bruce take it? He already has shopping down, I saw Him blow $5,800.00 on a purse/handbag/backpack, this after the cozy little shop had to open the second door for Kim to get Her caboose through it...
Rhetorical if You want it to be: What if before each Self incarnated into our Body in order to better learn the lessons our 'sexless Souls' to learn? I stand to pee (mostly) but can identify with My Yin, from where I am. Haven't We poisoned Mother Nature enough already with pollution and feeding Her (female-like a ship) bodies killed by wars and dis-ease? Now let Us try and get a curve ball by Her.. I'd wager if Bruce really wanted to be a female He could the next "go around" but what do I know? nothing, I know nothing.
umm, no it isn't. There is such a thing called objective reality. It's not a given. It takes analysis/study and reason to discover.
"Easy fixes" - which in reality are BIG and UNNECESSARY changes - come to be seen as desirable and even ethical; and on the part of others, we are expected to welcome and encourage these drastic transformations, and if we even raise an alarm, or beckon a deeper exploration at the level of psychodynamics, we risk being labelled a "bigot".
originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Astrocyte
If you're a psychotherapist, could you please do a medline search for some abstracts to support your claims? Surely you have some clinical studies, perhaps long term longitudinal ones that support your ideas? I wouldn't know where to start.
originally posted by: combatmaster
The fact is Jenner has an X chromosome in every cell of his body, an Adam's Apple, and the musculoskeletal system of a male. The fact that someone will cut off his privates and replace it with a hole that does nothing and give him hormone shots to create fake breasts does not alter that.
This is a phenomenon made possible by modern medicine and enabled by a self-indulgent society that mistakes civil rights of people who cannot change what they are, such as race, with preferences of people who can pretend to be what they are not.
originally posted by: MystikMushroom
If it seems like transgender and homosexuals are "in your face" these days, it's probably due to the fact they just want to be accepted for who/what they are. If they were treated 100% identical to everyone else, they wouldn't be having marches and parades or whatnot. They want exposure to highlight the fact that they are discriminated against and not treated as other human beings.
I think in the decades to come, we will see the LGBT less "in your face" as the world's population comes to terms with the fact that these are people, not monsters. They want the same things out of life that all of us do.