Second Fake Dutch Moon Rock Given To The Queen Of The Netherlands By Apollo 11 Crew!

a reply to: BornAgainAlien
As much thought as I give to anything politicians do or say. I try not to make assumptions.

a reply to: Phage

It`s not an assumption that the rock was given at the RAI by Middendorf in `69, because Middendorf confirms that himself by saying it came from the State Department when asked...it`s pretty normal of course to give a random rock at the opening of the exposition of the moon landing when the first astronauts are visiting and then not to name what kind of rock it is.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien
Was Middendorf told that the piece of petrified wood was a moon rock or did he assume it?
Was Drees told that the piece of petrified wood was a moon rock or did he assume it?

Assumptions are not facts.

a reply to: Phage

It`s safe to assume Middendorf thought it was a moon rock or else he wouldn`t have given it at that exact moment.

It`s also safe to assume because of when it was given to Drees he thought it was a moon rock.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Assume anything you wish but it was not a moon rock. Fake or otherwise. The astronauts gave no one a moon rock.

a reply to: Phage

That was something which I already had confirmed.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Phage

It`s safe to assume Middendorf thought it was a moon rock or else he wouldn`t have given it at that exact moment.

No, it isn't. There is nothing to support that assumption. There isn't actually that much to support the suggestion that Middendord gave anyone anything. Middendorf was the US Ambassador - he was not even in a position to get any lunar rock - he was already in Holland.

It`s also safe to assume because of when it was given to Drees he thought it was a moon rock.

No, it isn't. Apart from there being very little in the way of evidence for the exchange, you can have no idea what Drees did or not did think.

You can't just invent motives and thought processes to cover the massive holes in this feeble collection of allegations.

This story rests on two things: the existence of a gold coloured business card that makes absolutely no mention of the alleged gift, and a lump of petrified wood that no-one seemed to know about until his family passed on his effects to the museum after his death.

Has it not occurred to people that it is a little strange that no-one knew about the existence of this fabulous gift? When the Apollo rocks went 'on tour', thousands of people queued for hours to catch a glimpse of them. Here this one guy supposedly has a massive chunk of it and no-one knew a thing about it?

I'll re-iterate it, because some people seem to have difficulty looking at words:

There is not one single shred of evidence that anyone from NASA, or anyone from the US, ever made any claim that this piece of fossil was from the moon.

There is very little proof that this piece of stone was given to Drees during the Apollo 11 visit.

There is very little proof that this piece of stone was given to Dress by Middendorf - even he (an old man himself now) has contradicted the reports and said he didn't give it.

There is absolutely nothing in this story that holds any water whatsoever. It is, to use a new Dutch word I learned, "mierenneuken".

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
What has happened is the following...

The Astronauts were only 3 hours in The Netherlands.

They went to the "RAI" (building) to open the exposition of the moon landing first, and after that went to see the Queen at one of her palaces. At the "RAI," former Prime Minister Willem Drees was given a rock by American ambassador J. William Middendorf II which was said to be a moon rock.

At her palace the Queen gave the astronauts a silver pheasant and the astronauts gave a replica of the plaque left on the moon in return.

Somehow, the writer of the newspaper has combined the exchanging of the gifts between the astronauts and Queen, and the handing over of the "moon rock" to Willem Drees.

If it is a mistake you will most likely be able to find a rectification in the newspaper. In the Netherlands this is normal practice under journalists. If anyone finds that it would be clear for now the articles stands.

a reply to: TheWhisper

If anyone finds that it would be clear for now the articles stands.

Where is the rock which was given to the queen?

originally posted by: TheWhisper

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
What has happened is the following...

The Astronauts were only 3 hours in The Netherlands.

They went to the "RAI" (building) to open the exposition of the moon landing first, and after that went to see the Queen at one of her palaces. At the "RAI," former Prime Minister Willem Drees was given a rock by American ambassador J. William Middendorf II which was said to be a moon rock.

At her palace the Queen gave the astronauts a silver pheasant and the astronauts gave a replica of the plaque left on the moon in return.

Somehow, the writer of the newspaper has combined the exchanging of the gifts between the astronauts and Queen, and the handing over of the "moon rock" to Willem Drees.

If it is a mistake you will most likely be able to find a rectification in the newspaper. In the Netherlands this is normal practice under journalists. If anyone finds that it would be clear for now the articles stands.

What so if there is no correction of a mistake then the mistake is true? That's nonsense.

Just to show you again, btw, that your claim of there being a photograph of them handing over a supposed moon rock to the Queen isn't true, here is a video news reel of the event.



There is actually no evidence that the fossil wood and the card are in any way connected other than they appeared in the former PM's personal effects and were placed in an art exhibit together by two artists. Middendorf's own recollection is confused and he has said he did't recall giving the rock to Drees.

There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone ever donated a moon rock to anyone. There is barely evidence that anyone handed over any anything to Drees at the RAI - it was well documented, are there any photos of him even being there?

This whole story is an art stunt gone haywire that acquired a life of its own out of misunderstandings, fading memories and deliberate misreporting by hoax lovers.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Phage

Willem Drees is being seen as the most important, after the WW2, Dutch politician with a really big reputation and big political career...not known for any crazy stuff, and even a teetotaler.

You are 100% correct what TW noticed is that some people here like to assume a lot and tell it as the truth. They jump up and down and yell the source article is fake or the journalist was wrong who wrote it. You know also that it is common practice in the Netherlands to put out a rectification when you make a mistake as journalist. TW is asking if those who claim that the article is wrong to find that rectification. Until that point the article stands the the Queen got a moon rock from the astronauts.

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

originally posted by: TheWhisper

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
What has happened is the following...

The Astronauts were only 3 hours in The Netherlands.

They went to the "RAI" (building) to open the exposition of the moon landing first, and after that went to see the Queen at one of her palaces. At the "RAI," former Prime Minister Willem Drees was given a rock by American ambassador J. William Middendorf II which was said to be a moon rock.

At her palace the Queen gave the astronauts a silver pheasant and the astronauts gave a replica of the plaque left on the moon in return.

Somehow, the writer of the newspaper has combined the exchanging of the gifts between the astronauts and Queen, and the handing over of the "moon rock" to Willem Drees.

If it is a mistake you will most likely be able to find a rectification in the newspaper. In the Netherlands this is normal practice under journalists. If anyone finds that it would be clear for now the articles stands.

What so if there is no correction of a mistake then the mistake is true? That's nonsense.

Just to show you again, btw, that your claim of there being a photograph of them handing over a supposed moon rock to the Queen isn't true, here is a video news reel of the event.

There is actually no evidence that the fossil wood and the card are in any way connected other than they appeared in the former PM's personal effects and were placed in an art exhibit together by two artists. Middendorf's own recollection is confused and he has said he did't recall giving the rock to Drees.

There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone ever donated a moon rock to anyone. There is barely evidence that anyone handed over any anything to Drees at the RAI - it was well documented, are there any photos of him even being there?

This whole story is an art stunt gone haywire that acquired a life of its own out of misunderstandings, fading memories and deliberate misreporting by hoax lovers.

it is common practice in the Netherlands to put out a rectification when you make a mistake as journalist. Find the rectification that is the only correct way to go. You may keep yelling but TW just is following a lead to a second article about this subject. The whisper is getting louder!

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheWhisper

If anyone finds that it would be clear for now the articles stands.

Where is the rock which was given to the queen?

TW advise:
Go try to find the rectification for the article, common practice in the Netherlands. Just assuming the journalist was wrong is not really a standard for critical thinking in our opinion.

a reply to: TheWhisper

Just assuming the journalist was wrong is not really a standard for critical thinking in our opinion.

It's more than an assumption. It is the fact that no other source says anything about the queen receiving a moon rock. It is the fact that no one else ever received a moon rock. Do you think the queen of the Netherlands was so special to receive a moon rock from the astronauts when no one else did? Why? Put your critical thinking skills to use instead of just believing something you read in a single newspaper article. Use critical thinking instead of confirmation bias.

originally posted by: TheWhisper

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

originally posted by: TheWhisper

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
What has happened is the following...

The Astronauts were only 3 hours in The Netherlands.

They went to the "RAI" (building) to open the exposition of the moon landing first, and after that went to see the Queen at one of her palaces. At the "RAI," former Prime Minister Willem Drees was given a rock by American ambassador J. William Middendorf II which was said to be a moon rock.

At her palace the Queen gave the astronauts a silver pheasant and the astronauts gave a replica of the plaque left on the moon in return.

Somehow, the writer of the newspaper has combined the exchanging of the gifts between the astronauts and Queen, and the handing over of the "moon rock" to Willem Drees.

If it is a mistake you will most likely be able to find a rectification in the newspaper. In the Netherlands this is normal practice under journalists. If anyone finds that it would be clear for now the articles stands.

What so if there is no correction of a mistake then the mistake is true? That's nonsense.

Just to show you again, btw, that your claim of there being a photograph of them handing over a supposed moon rock to the Queen isn't true, here is a video news reel of the event.

There is actually no evidence that the fossil wood and the card are in any way connected other than they appeared in the former PM's personal effects and were placed in an art exhibit together by two artists. Middendorf's own recollection is confused and he has said he did't recall giving the rock to Drees.

There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone ever donated a moon rock to anyone. There is barely evidence that anyone handed over any anything to Drees at the RAI - it was well documented, are there any photos of him even being there?

This whole story is an art stunt gone haywire that acquired a life of its own out of misunderstandings, fading memories and deliberate misreporting by hoax lovers.

it is common practice in the Netherlands to put out a rectification when you make a mistake as journalist. Find the rectification that is the only correct way to go.

No.

Absence of a correction is no proof that anything is correct, it is merely a cop-out to excuse you from doing any work. Hiding being other people's shoddy journalism is no excuse for your own shoddy research.

The basic premise of your thread is that you had photographic proof that Apollo astronauts gave a lunar rock to Queen Juliana.

This was proven to be completely wrong.

There is no evidence whatsoever of:

- anyone giving a lunar sample to anyone else during the Apollo 11 Goodwill tour of the Netherlands
- lunar samples being given to anyone in any country at all during the Apollo 11 Goodwill tour
- lunar samples being available on the Goodwill tour at all
- Drees being present at the RAI exhibition
- The card given out by the US Ambassador being associated with the fossil wood

There is only contradictory evidence from the Ambassador as to whether he gave it to Drees. Some sources report he recalls giving it, some report him saying he did not recall giving it. The report saying he did not recall giving it has not been corrected to say it is mistaken.

No news reports saying they landed on the moon have ever been corrected to say they didn't. By your standard of proof you may as well give up now.

a reply to: onebigmonkey
- anyone giving a lunar sample to anyone else during the Apollo 11 Goodwill tour of the Netherlands
- lunar samples being given to anyone in any country at all during the Apollo 11 Goodwill tour
- lunar samples being available on the Goodwill tour at all
- Drees being present at the RAI exhibition
- The card given out by the US Ambassador being associated with the fossil wood

Well you simple can google that what you say is incorrect again.
"I do remember that Drees was very interested in the little piece of stone. But that it's not real, I don't know anything about that," Mr Middendorf said.

Source:
www.telegraph.co.uk...

We have found a lead to second source but are still working on the conformation for it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheWhisper

Just assuming the journalist was wrong is not really a standard for critical thinking in our opinion.

It's more than an assumption. It is the fact that no other source says anything about the queen receiving a moon rock. It is the fact that no one else ever received a moon rock. Do you think the queen of the Netherlands was so special to receive a moon rock from the astronauts when no one else did? Why? Put your critical thinking skills to use instead of just believing something you read in a single newspaper article. Use critical thinking instead of confirmation bias.

Can you show any source article from 1969 that states that the US ambassador did give a piece of petrified wood to Drees?

originally posted by: TheWhisper
a reply to: onebigmonkey
- anyone giving a lunar sample to anyone else during the Apollo 11 Goodwill tour of the Netherlands
- lunar samples being given to anyone in any country at all during the Apollo 11 Goodwill tour
- lunar samples being available on the Goodwill tour at all
- Drees being present at the RAI exhibition
- The card given out by the US Ambassador being associated with the fossil wood

Well you simple can google that what you say is incorrect again.
"I do remember that Drees was very interested in the little piece of stone. But that it's not real, I don't know anything about that," Mr Middendorf said.

Source:
www.telegraph.co.uk...

We have found a lead to second source but are still working on the conformation for it.

Where does it say there that Drees gave him the stone?

And maybe you can do some more simple googling and turn up this:

newsblog.projo.com/2009/08/moon-rock-equal.html

The AP reported that Drees got it as a private gift on Oct. 9, 1969 from J. William Middendorf, then U.S. ambassador to the Netherlands and now a resident of Little Compton.

Middendorf said on Thursday that he doesn't recall presenting the rock to Drees, but does recall when the Apollo 11 astronauts visited the Netherlands as part of their "Giant Leap" goodwill tour that followed their moon landing on July 20, 1969.

"It has been 40 years," Middendorf said, "so I can't remember the details."

Key points in bold. It has not been corrected.

(as quoted from the Apollohoax forum archives)

a reply to: onebigmonkey

Link too your source please otherwise people cannot check it. We need to be correct on this forum. We assume you agree to that rule.

Middendorf said on Thursday that he doesn't recall presenting the rock to Drees

TW has this quote with link to the source:
"I do remember that Drees was very interested in the little piece of stone. But that it's not real, I don't know anything about that," Mr Middendorf said.
www.telegraph.co.uk...

a reply to: TheWhisper

Google it, like I did. I even told you where I found it - you know very well where Apollohoax and its archives are, as you are a member there.

I have given you everything you need to find the quote, and it also exists on many other sites on the internet.

And I repeat: Middendorf's quote says nothing about him giving the rock to Drees.