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U.S. Citizens! When is enough, ENOUGH?

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posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: fixitwcw
The most recent FATCA laws were enough for me. I wanted to renounce my citizenship, but they made that impossible.
I would be supportive of a revolution, but I am afraid the military strength is too much to challenge now.




posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 12:12 PM
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a reply to: fixitwcw

I think when voter turnout is at record lows, change will be in the air.
But in my opinion, change = (inter?)national martial law.

Gogo Murica!


But until then, I'm crossing my fingers for the Clinton/Bush dynasty to continue. Best & longest running sitcom on TV.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 12:26 PM
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originally posted by: pteridine
a reply to: fixitwcw What is your vision for the country when the existing government has been over thrown?



I can't answer for fixitwcw, but I can give you my vision for it.

Power flow from the people upward, rather than the state downward. Local polities having more power, right where those affected by that power have the most say in how it is wielded, gradually weakening upward along the food chain, through county and state to federal, with the federal government having the least influence over the daily lives of the people of all. Putting the federal government back within the boundaries it was created to exist in - mostly just mediation of interstate disputes, and foreign affairs.

No more standing federal army to threaten the states and ultimately the people with. DoD to be relegated to a coordination office between state militaries. Local and state control of local and state police to be returned to their respective jurisdictions, rather than DHS. Abolish DHS - we don't need it. Abolish the FBI. We don't need that, either. limit DoJ to actual federal concerns.

Let the states revert to actually being "states", in deed as well as name, rather than mere counties of the federal government. That's how a "Federation" actually is supposed to work - a federation of states, rather than a mega-state of it's own.

It just makes more sense to me to allow people to have the ultimate power in determining their own destinies and a far away government to have far, far less influence over daily lives they never even see. that would involve a bottom-up approach to power.

Think of the US as a "pyramid" - large base (population) tapering to a fine point (federal government). The power structure we have at the moment is entirely upside down - large power at the top (federal government), little or none at the bottom (the people).

It can't balance on that tiny point forever.



edit on 2015/4/26 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 12:39 PM
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political control has been learned through trial and error. the "wealthy" know that if your citizenship reaches the point that they have nothing left to lose, and, there are enough of those types of people, that's when "wealth" is at it's most vulnerable. thus, you must instill hope for a better future through media, at the same time as your citizenship has "enough", to fear losing.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013

You have every opportunity to debate and encourage a change of social attitude and opinion, yet instead, because you know you won't get that support, you want "revolution" instead.



The same could be said of my system (and the one the nation was founded upon) - but with fewer overlords to "direct" the people in their decision making process.




You are absolutely no different to any other radical ideological or religious group out there.



Nor are you. Isn't individualism great?




In a democracy you get to express your support for things, debate against things, encourage discussion about issues and influence change, THAT'S DEMOCRACY.



No. "Democracy" is having 51% of the population determine what color shoelaces the other 49% is allowed to wear, and other such mundane trivialites. "Democracy" is having 51% tell the rest just exactly how they're going to live to the slightest detail, and telling them they're damned well going to like it. Or else.




Your notion is instead to directly remove what the majority of people actually vote for (the process itself, the right for people to elect those who represent their best interests and those of society), to be replaced by your ideology, through force.



When have the majority of the people ever voted for ANYTHING? EVER? WHEN has there ever, in the history of the world, been a majority of any population turn out to vote on anything at all? "Democracy" is the fine art of getting most of the opposition to stay home, so that you can ram through your own agenda unimpeded.




That's terrorism, no matter how much you want to attempt to redefine it.



You know, it would just be too damned easy to apply that to my previous paragraph. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.




People like you seem to think this society has been imposed on us, and you seem to believe you are a product of something else. Reminder, you are a product of our society. Our societies have evolved over hundreds of years to become the messy democracies they now are, you think this was all imposed on people?



"Societies" are not imposed,they develop. Politics, on the other hand, are NOT societies, and politics ARE imposed. Daily. everywhere. it's just a matter of what sort of politics YOU want to impose versus what sort of politics I or anyone else want to impose. Just as "war is the extension of politics by other means", politics are the extension of war, in the other direction, by other means.




I tell you what, try going to an African nation and telling the parents there how terribly oppressed you are, with your education, your media, your hospitals, your roads, your running water and your electricity.



And the point of that would be... ? I'm not in Africa. Africa's problems are for Africans to fix. Have we learned nothing from what is shaping up to be an entire century of foreign adventurism and intervention "for their own good"? When will people stop, and let other folks determine for themselves what is "for their own good"?

I've got my own problems at home to fix. Africa is just going to have to look after itself for a while.




Try telling them how "dictatorship" is ruining your life and freedoms while they watch their neighbours being beaten to death by a "revolutionary".



Again, if they are willing to watch that happen, it's not MY problem. Once upon a time, it was, and they loved me for my response. Those days are over. I have crap to look after at home now, crap which you people let run amok while I was away "fixing" the rest of the world. We should have known better than to leave the asylum in charge of the lunatics. Now it's got to be fixed.




Try telling them how awful it is to live in the evil west with the best quality of health care in the world, while their newborn dies a slow death from Malaria, which could have been prevented by spending less than you spent on a pack of gum.



I wouldn't know. I don't partake of you alleged "health care system", nor will I ever. Do you know how many people die in hospitals? If it's all the great, why are malpractice suits so prevalent here? What is the point of "saving lives" just to watch them die of starvation as populations get out of hand? Which of us is it, do you think, that are ever going to get out of life alive?




You really don't get how f-ing privileged you are.



Oh, I do! I know exactly how privileged I am here - and exactly how privileged I'm not here. I know it down to the last penny. I know how much better it could be, and I know that none of my "privilege" was created, granted, given, or sustained by you or the government. I know it, because I know what my privileges are.

I also know what my rights are, and how they are sustained.

And I know the difference between the two.



edit on 2015/4/26 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: fixitwcw
or offer your opinion on the matter?


You do not know how lucky you are, being able to have a little whine about small things. people are starving and living very poorly in other countries, and would express wonderment at what you are complaining about!


let those people in other countries see to that, then. "better by comparison" does not mean even "objectively good", much less "as good as it can get".



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:21 PM
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originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: pteridine
a reply to: fixitwcw What is your vision for the country when the existing government has been over thrown?



I can't answer for fixitwcw, but I can give you my vision for it.

Power flow from the people upward, rather than the state downward. Local polities having more power, right where those affected by that power have the most say in how it is wielded, gradually weakening upward along the food chain, through county and state to federal, with the federal government having the least influence over the daily lives of the people of all. Putting the federal government back within the boundaries it was created to exist in - mostly just mediation of interstate disputes, and foreign affairs.

No more standing federal army to threaten the states and ultimately the people with. DoD to be relegated to a coordination office between state militaries. Local and state control of local and state police to be returned to their respective jurisdictions, rather than DHS. Abolish DHS - we don't need it. Abolish the FBI. We don't need that, either. limit DoJ to actual federal concerns.

Let the states revert to actually being "states", in deed as well as name, rather than mere counties of the federal government. That's how a "Federation" actually is supposed to work - a federation of states, rather than a mega-state of it's own.

It just makes more sense to me to allow people to have the ultimate power in determining their own destinies and a far away government to have far, far less influence over daily lives they never even see. that would involve a bottom-up approach to power.

Think of the US as a "pyramid" - large base (population) tapering to a fine point (federal government). The power structure we have at the moment is entirely upside down - large power at the top (federal government), little or none at the bottom (the people).

It can't balance on that tiny point forever.




The states having power doesn't equal the people having power. IMHO this is maybe the biggest fallacy in politics. The thought that the state is for the people but the federal government is against them. I have been hasseled WAY more by the state. Hell, I don't think I've ever been hasseled by the Feds. All the police state stuff is state. All the unarmed deaths, all the police extortion thru minor traffic infractions and the list goes on and on. While the Feds are feeding the poor and providing SOME protection from the police state. Both are robbing us blind....

Why is the state the answer?
I see how it could be.. But so could the fed. Not that either are anywhere near perfect.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 04:13 PM
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My final straw has already broken my back. But there aren't enough others to form the beginning of a revolution. Just as the government has always planned, we are mostly slugs, leeches and ticks sucking on the blood of every other citizen and praising the evil government for the money they take from some, and give to others.

I've given up with the exception of my voice. We will be checkmated in the coming few years.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: fixitwcw

When my gut tells me to do so.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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From what I can see both Rocker and the other fella are right in their own way.

Rocker: lets imagine for a second that your own life wasnt just as good as you reckon it is.
You may disagree on govt policy, immigration, currency, social unrest and you are marked as a subversive for that.
So life isnt so hunky dory for everyone, in fact pretty far from it, to the point of being deadly if you fall into certain racial groups.

That doesnt make you wrong, just of a different opinion and thats valuable. The fact that you are allowed to have a differing opinion. That may well change at some point.

The op asked at first what would make you think enough was enough, so what would be that threshold for you Rocker?

Someone once wrote that it would be difficult to make a person do something, if his current lifestyle depended on things staying the same? And thats kinda the flavour Im getting here?

Salut



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: nenothtu

The government doesn't need overthrown, just mostly fired and replaced with officials who will do the job they were elected to do.

BUT, the people don't want that, they are enjoying the status quo, handing over their constitutional rights as if those rights were candy to be given away and not needed, willing to take another persons rights away from them because no one but them deserves to have any rights in their eyes....

people are trying to destroy the constitution with all they have... and so long as the majority doesn't care a whit for that constitution, so long as the majority is happy with the way things are.. then those officials will keep on doing a different job than one which upholds the constitution..



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 06:56 PM
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I feel like starting a violent uprising will cause more harm than good. I am part of the new generation and I for one have plans to peacefully disown the reigning regime. I believe this is the best course of action. If we simply disconnect from the corporations and evil organizations (Monsanto, for one) they will destroy themselves. Although, If the regime takes action against us, I have the tools necessary to fight.

I believe this is how the bulk of my awakened generation feels.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: fixitwcw

Some people could really benefit from reading the Declaration of Independence and understanding that as an American citizen they have been charged with holding the elected servants to answering for EVERYTIME they violate their oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution! It is no different that we all have been charged with owning arms for the security of the nation.

The Bible believing folks have a double charge to be upholding the Dec of Independence seeing how we are charged with "obeying the law of the land". The "law of the land" is the US constitution which is coupled/married to the Dec of Independence!

Great post and worry not about people whinning about people who are trying to lead them further away from their (and their childrens) bondage!!!!


edit on 26-4-2015 by BelieveInEnoch because: filllled



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 09:22 PM
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a reply to: fixitwcw

Not until all of the people acknowledge that the great international Social experiment is a complete failure.

Even with that being one day realized by the herds, without the backing of the United States Military, it's nothing more than the suicidal ramblings of madmen.

~$heopleNation
edit on 26-4-2015 by SheopleNation because: TypO



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 09:34 PM
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originally posted by: pianoasis
I feel like starting a violent uprising will cause more harm than good. I am part of the new generation and I for one have plans to peacefully disown the reigning regime. I believe this is the best course of action. If we simply disconnect from the corporations and evil organizations (Monsanto, for one) they will destroy themselves. Although, If the regime takes action against us, I have the tools necessary to fight. I believe this is how the bulk of my awakened generation feels.


You have righteous intentions, but your tools will do nothing for you against such a powerful foe. Do you understand who your biggest enemy is my friend? Your biggest enemy is the plague of stupidity, and that plague is growing every single day. Every single day the number of slaves grow.

You see, the deciders have opened the flood gates for decades to make sure that the easily and misled will always outnumber the educated, informed and intelligent. This is not a new idea, it's an ancient system of subjugation.

~$heopleNation



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 10:06 PM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
My final straw has already broken my back. But there aren't enough others to form the beginning of a revolution. Just as the government has always planned, we are mostly slugs, leeches and ticks sucking on the blood of every other citizen and praising the evil government for the money they take from some, and give to others.

I've given up with the exception of my voice. We will be checkmated in the coming few years.


You're very intuitive. Most folks are under the assumption that Revolution will have some Magical affective outcome, when all that will happen will be lock down, round up, disarmament ,with a media blackout and Business as usual.

Better to Unass the AO and fair a safer life style Elsewhere



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:23 AM
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originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: pteridine
a reply to: fixitwcw What is your vision for the country when the existing government has been over thrown?



I can't answer for fixitwcw, but I can give you my vision for it.

Power flow from the people upward, rather than the state downward. Local polities having more power, right where those affected by that power have the most say in how it is wielded, gradually weakening upward along the food chain, through county and state to federal, with the federal government having the least influence over the daily lives of the people of all. Putting the federal government back within the boundaries it was created to exist in - mostly just mediation of interstate disputes, and foreign affairs.

No more standing federal army to threaten the states and ultimately the people with. DoD to be relegated to a coordination office between state militaries. Local and state control of local and state police to be returned to their respective jurisdictions, rather than DHS. Abolish DHS - we don't need it. Abolish the FBI. We don't need that, either. limit DoJ to actual federal concerns.

Let the states revert to actually being "states", in deed as well as name, rather than mere counties of the federal government. That's how a "Federation" actually is supposed to work - a federation of states, rather than a mega-state of it's own.

It just makes more sense to me to allow people to have the ultimate power in determining their own destinies and a far away government to have far, far less influence over daily lives they never even see. that would involve a bottom-up approach to power.

Think of the US as a "pyramid" - large base (population) tapering to a fine point (federal government). The power structure we have at the moment is entirely upside down - large power at the top (federal government), little or none at the bottom (the people).

It can't balance on that tiny point forever.




The states having power doesn't equal the people having power. IMHO this is maybe the biggest fallacy in politics. The thought that the state is for the people but the federal government is against them. I have been hasseled WAY more by the state. Hell, I don't think I've ever been hasseled by the Feds. All the police state stuff is state. All the unarmed deaths, all the police extortion thru minor traffic infractions and the list goes on and on. While the Feds are feeding the poor and providing SOME protection from the police state. Both are robbing us blind....

Why is the state the answer?
I see how it could be.. But so could the fed. Not that either are anywhere near perfect.


Perhaps you need to read my post again. The state is NOT the answer. In the model I proposed, power flows UPWARD from you, not downward from the federals. It would necessarily dilute as it went upward, the local (municipailty or county) having less, the state having still less, and the federal level least of all.

The federal government is not "against" us (any more than the state is "for" us), it's not even close enough to know us, or what is good for us. The closer government gets to us, the better idea it has of what is good for us, or what we want or expect of it. Closest of all is you, in your own living room. Don't you think you know best what is in your own best interest? At least better than a bureaucrat 1000 miles away who has never even spoken to you?




edit on 2015/4/27 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:33 AM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: nenothtu

The government doesn't need overthrown, just mostly fired and replaced with officials who will do the job they were elected to do.

BUT, the people don't want that, they are enjoying the status quo, handing over their constitutional rights as if those rights were candy to be given away and not needed, willing to take another persons rights away from them because no one but them deserves to have any rights in their eyes....

people are trying to destroy the constitution with all they have... and so long as the majority doesn't care a whit for that constitution, so long as the majority is happy with the way things are.. then those officials will keep on doing a different job than one which upholds the constitution..


I personally believe that it's too late to fix it. This ship is going down sooner or later, just like the Roman Empire did. It's inevitable. It's the way of humanity. The time to fix it would have been 30 or 40 years ago. By 20 years ago, it was too late.

People cannot "give away" their rights, according to the founders. They claimed those rights were "inalienable", which means they could not be separated from the individual those rights were vested in. What they CAN do, and ARE doing in ever increasing droves, is fail to exercise their rights. For all practical purposes, i suppose that could be construed as "giving them away", but the important difference is that they are NOT given away - they are still there, to be exercised at will - if that individual ever finds the balls to do it.

Some are finding those balls. Not enough will.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:35 AM
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originally posted by: pianoasis
I feel like starting a violent uprising will cause more harm than good. I am part of the new generation and I for one have plans to peacefully disown the reigning regime. I believe this is the best course of action. If we simply disconnect from the corporations and evil organizations (Monsanto, for one) they will destroy themselves. Although, If the regime takes action against us, I have the tools necessary to fight.

I believe this is how the bulk of my awakened generation feels.


That is the choice between dying on your feet or living on your knees.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:39 AM
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originally posted by: SheopleNation

originally posted by: pianoasis
I feel like starting a violent uprising will cause more harm than good. I am part of the new generation and I for one have plans to peacefully disown the reigning regime. I believe this is the best course of action. If we simply disconnect from the corporations and evil organizations (Monsanto, for one) they will destroy themselves. Although, If the regime takes action against us, I have the tools necessary to fight. I believe this is how the bulk of my awakened generation feels.


You have righteous intentions, but your tools will do nothing for you against such a powerful foe. Do you understand who your biggest enemy is my friend? Your biggest enemy is the plague of stupidity, and that plague is growing every single day. Every single day the number of slaves grow.

You see, the deciders have opened the flood gates for decades to make sure that the easily and misled will always outnumber the educated, informed and intelligent. This is not a new idea, it's an ancient system of subjugation.

~$heopleNation


I don't often agree with you, but I do here. We - as a nation and as a planet - are being eaten by a plague of stupid. Combine that with the upsurge of cowardice, and you have the perfect storm brewing to kill us all.

Or make us wish we were dead.




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