It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Daily Vertical: Kadyrov 'Declares Independence'

page: 2
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 04:22 PM
link   
a reply to: kitzik




Checnya is destined to be or under Putinism or Wahhabism.


where is the problem in recent police action. federal police holding a federal warrant can conduct actions anywhere in russia. many a times for security and secrecy reasons local authorities are not notified.

while chechnya is under some sort of autonomy and privileges it should fully understand at what point these local privileges end.




posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 04:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Xcathdra




Are there any other Chechen leaders who could hold everything together?


Let me rephrase your question. What are perspectives of development of Chechen nation ?
Can it become western oriented nation with democratic institutes ?
The answer, unfortunately, at present - no. (May be in some distant future there will be another answer, idk)
Checnya is destined to be or under Putinism or Wahhabism.
What is Putinism ? - Putinism is a modern version of Russian Imperialism.
What is Wahhabism ? - Wahhabism is a modern version of militant barbaric islam of 7-th century.
And unfortunately Chechnya is not ready for a modern version of western development.



Then


Now




My Questions are Why does Chehhcnya have to conform to anything Democracy or western ? As if our system "is perfect " nay the same thing will happen to them as has happened to us their Democracy will give way to big corporations .

Chehcnya is progressing just fine without western influence .

You say that Chechnya is doomed to fall to Wahhabi Ideology? i Highly !doubt it! given that the majority of Chechens are Sufi .

What we can agree on is that they might fall under "imperialist putin " but it looks like Ramzan is making his move to split away from that .



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 04:36 PM
link   
a reply to: victor7




while chechnya is under some sort of autonomy and privileges it should fully understand at what point these local privileges end.


My personal understanding of Chechen people is that they want to be a "special guard forces" of either Putin or under Arabic
influence, but in either case with very broad privileges. If Putin Russia is not ready to grant them this special status, they will switch to Arabian sponsors. But even within broad Wahhabism they will always stay as a "special force", they are not going submit to arabian supremacy. They will change cyrrilic alphabet to arabian like, but they will stay proud Chechen bandits or if you are ally with them you will call them "special guard forces"



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 04:43 PM
link   
a reply to: Kapusta




You say that Chechnya is doomed to fall to Wahhabi Ideology?


I didn't said that. But in the long run I think that any state run solely on Wahhabist principles is destined to confrontation with Western society. My hope is that West will win, but there is also a possibility that like previous Roman Empire The West will crumble under barbaric invasion and experience a thousand year of setback.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 04:45 PM
link   
a reply to: Kapusta




Chehcnya is progressing just fine without western influence .


They are doing it with Russia's help, but with these new calling for the shooting of foreign agents including Russian how long can they survive like that without the help from the Kremlin?



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Kapusta




You say that Chechnya is doomed to fall to Wahhabi Ideology?


I didn't said that. But in the long run I think that any state run solely on Wahhabist principles is destined to confrontation with Western society. My hope is that West will win, but there is also a possibility that like previous Roman Empire The West will crumble under barbaric invasion and experience a thousand year of setback.


you said


Checnya is destined to be or under Putinism or Wahhabism


Wahhabism is an Ideology .




I think that any state run solely on Wahhabist principles is destined to confrontation with Western society


Chehchens are sufi , different ideology ...

the Saudi government can be considered "wahabi" and their dealings with the US are fine.

you speak as if some war between chechnya and US is bound to happen ?



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:09 PM
link   
a reply to: Kapusta

Also, about your pictures.

I don't want to see new mosques I'd rather change them all to planetariums.
Or at least I want to see a mosque alongside with planetarium.
And I want to see a fair competition between those two worldviews.

Planetarium - en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:15 PM
link   
a reply to: Kapusta




you speak as if some war between chechnya and US is bound to happen ?



Hmm, let's remember what origin is Tsarnaev brothers ?

But, I'm not speaking about near future, I was using a very long microscope or telescope if you wish. Looking into this whole picture from the perspectives of thousands of years. Yes. I feel that modern West is still in some way continuation of Greco-Roman civilization and Wahhabism and actually any Islam is not. I choose civilization, you are free to choose outdated Tribalism under the guise of Monoteism, but don't say no one has warned you.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Kapusta




Chehcnya is progressing just fine without western influence .


They are doing it with Russia's help, but with these new calling for the shooting of foreign agents including Russian how long can they survive like that without the help from the Kremlin?



It's Clear the" Gremlin" is upset no doubt , As far as surviving without Russia I am positive they can , Chechnya is rich in resources that Russia has been after for many many years . the whole establishment of the Kaderov regime was a tool used to tap into the resources. Russia figured out that if they can make the majority of Chechen happy then it would be far less of a hassle to dip their hands in the "resource pot " Thus they brought Kaderov into power .

The only thing Russia had to worry about after this point was a few hundred or so rebel resistance groups , but they left that up to Kaderov and he has done a good job keeping them in order .

I said earlier that Chechnya can survive without Russia because Ramzan has grown big enough and has marketed him self with other interest Like Dubi , Saudi , etc .

I have other theory's on why hes making a stand though . But i think now is the time for him to do it , With tensions between the US and Russia Kaderov can simply keep Russia in Check because of the strategic position of the KAVKAZ region .

All he really has to do is Whistle twards Saudi for support really as they would be the go between for US and Chechen relations .

again it's to early to tell , But Ill be keeping my eye on this for sure .



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Kapusta




you speak as if some war between chechnya and US is bound to happen ?



Hmm, let's remember what origin is Tsarnaev brothers ?

But, I'm not speaking about near future, I was using a very long microscope or telescope if you wish. Looking into this whole picture from the perspectives of thousands of years. Yes. I feel that modern West is still in some way continuation of Greco-Roman civilization and Wahhabism and actually any Islam is not. I choose civilization, you are free to choose outdated Tribalism under the guise of Monoteism, but don't say no one has warned you.



The FBI claimed that The Tesarnaev brothers received training from Chechen rebel factions in Chechnya however we know this was a lie , The leaders of these factions came out and aid they had no Knowlege of who these brothers were and stated "our fight is here at home not abroad " .


What are you talking about "tribalism "? have you been to Chechnya , Jordan, Dubai, Morocco etc .. all of them live mostly under Monotheism and are Modern ?

The world does not need to conform to Western Ideology .



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:39 PM
link   
a reply to: Kapusta




The world does not need to conform to Western Ideology


We are talking about different things. You are equating Western ideology with modern American Imperialism I'm talking about much broader context.

The difference is that it is not so important whether Tsarnaev brothers were directly guided by some specific Chechen terrorist faction or it was a lone wolfs actions. What is important that normal western people considering such acts as barbaric indiscriminate vandalism and they need to understand what is the source of such ideologies.
edit on 25-4-2015 by kitzik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 07:49 PM
link   
a reply to: kitzik

Uhm no, don't rephrase it because its not what I am asking..

Is there another Chechen leader who could assume power and hold everything together.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 10:30 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

Do leaders live for 200 years?

If Kadyrov is removed/resigned suddenly then there are lots of others who are under FSB's watch to take the position immediately. There is no need to loudmouth such names as that would be a dis-service to Kadyrov, his management and loyalty to Kremlin.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 11:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Kapusta




The world does not need to conform to Western Ideology


We are talking about different things. You are equating Western ideology with modern American Imperialism I'm talking about much broader context.

The difference is that it is not so important whether Tsarnaev brothers were directly guided by some specific Chechen terrorist faction or it was a lone wolfs actions. What is important that normal western people considering such acts as barbaric indiscriminate vandalism and they need to understand what is the source of such ideologies.



Here is the problem, I believe the bombings were a false flagg operation to get Chechnya on the map . much like they did during the world trade center bombings ,that was the first time anyone had really heard of Bin Laden fast forward to 2001 within an hr of 9/11 they made the announcement it was bin Laden who was responsible for the attacks. then what happen we went into Afghanistan.

So i don't for a second believe it was some "lone wolf Attack " their is a deeper sinister reason as to why it happend ,let us hope it was not to get Chechnya on the map for some future event.

Do you consider the slaughtered Innocent Muslim people in Iraq ,Afghanistan, by US forces a barbaric act ?

Lets not call the kettle black here ....
edit on 26-4-2015 by Kapusta because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 11:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: kitzik

Uhm no, don't rephrase it because its not what I am asking..

Is there another Chechen leader who could assume power and hold everything together.




I am sure their are plenty who could hold Chechnya together . i mean one can't assume that ramzan is the only one . right ?



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 11:59 PM
link   
a reply to: Kapusta

After Putin (post year 2000) if anyother person who has done Russia much good is Gaspadin Ramzan Kadyrov.

Russia needs him around for next few decades as he is a strong leader with focus on economic growth and progress of people. Way to go Ramzan! Spasiba Bolshoi Tavarisch!!
edit on 26-4-2015 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 12:06 AM
link   

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: Kapusta

After Putin (post year 2000) if anyother person who has done Russia much good is Gaspadin Ramzan Kadyrov.

Russia needs him around for next few decades as he is a strong leader with focus on economic growth and progress of people. Way to go Ramzan! Spasiba Bolshoi Tavarisch!!



Lol I agree hes a decent leader . In fact he is offering asylum to the rebels if they decide to quit their jihad .

But we may only see what the news and internet makes of him . He might be an animal when the camera is off ....

Just saying Vitka!



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 01:58 AM
link   
a reply to: victor7

and will those individuals be able to keep Chechnya in one piece while keeping it a part of Russia?

If Russia removes the head of Chechnya how do you think the Chechen's will take that? Will the anti Russian groups remain quiet or will it descend back into war?



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:00 AM
link   
a reply to: Kapusta

The bombings occurred before the mess in Ukraine started so what would be the purpose?



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Kapusta

The bombings occurred before the mess in Ukraine started so what would be the purpose?



and the plans to invade Iraq and Afghanistan were set forth before 9/11

My theory is that if the US was able to get into Chechnya or Kavkaz then they would have Iran Completely Surrounded.

Take a look at a map when you get a chance .

look all i am saying is that For the US Kavkaz serves as a strategic advantage for several different scenarios .



new topics

top topics



 
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join