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Republican Congress Strips Women and Gays of Rights Under Guise of ‘Religious Freedom’

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posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

An Amish farmer will not hire anyone outside of the Amish community... yet.. they will sell their goods to all of us, but they wont hire a one of us...

It also doesn't make me mad, nor does it even stop me from doing business with the Amish.. I rather like some of their goods, and it saves me a bit of work... but they do discriminate when they hire, because they only do so within their own community..

A mosque will not employ a non-Muslim.. anyone can go and hear the khutba, but they wont hire anyone to work in their mosque or their religious schools who is not a practicing Muslim...

If a Muslim works at walmart they can specify that they won't sell alcohol at the checkout, and walmart has to accomodate them if and when at all possible, they also have to accomodate prayer times for their Muslim employees etc...


The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business. This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.

Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices.


www.eeoc.gov...

^^ That is part of the federal law that protects all of us in one shape or form...

private institutions and people who are religious should not have their rights infringed upon.. we cannot allow government to dictate religion... whether or not that is a church hiring a bookkeeper, or a religious school, or a charitable organization... people have a right in this country to practice their religion, or not practice however they see fit.

give the government an inroad to dictating the practice of religion to people.. they will take a whole mile, from ALL of us
edit on 25-4-2015 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: Onslaught2996

You're right. when you open a business you lose all rights to opinions, religious expression, self-determination.

You serve only at the whim of the customer. You are a slave to the customers opinions, attitudes, and social morals.

You are less than human and deserve nothing. The business owner is paid. That is enough.

They should dance to any tune played by the customer.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Again, for argument sake, lets say today we are at 80% of everything is moral and 25% is immoral.


Check your math.


Isn't it a bit strange that at the rate we are "progressing", eventually murder may become moral, corruption, rape? It sometimes concerns me that we seem to be trying to make anything that anyone "is"...acceptable.


That is nothing new. We've been making murder morally acceptable since we started killing each other. Both war and capital punishment are morally accepted every day and have been for a while so you can't attribute that to progress. The bible made murder and rape morally ok when God commanded the Israelites to do both to it's enemies.


But I know you understand my point. While I don't believe in God or like religion, I do realize that the 10 commandments wouldn't be a bad thing for society to adopt. It wouldn't be a bad thing to promote one parent to be a stay-at-home parent nor would it be a bad thing to teach kids that pot isn't a good choice. We need things to aspire to. Much like there can't be a God without a Devil. There can't be good...without things we decide are bad.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: Onslaught2996
You are a business, you open your doors to the public. Therefore you should serve everyone..does not matter your beliefs, sexuality, culture or race. This goes for everyone.gays, religious folks..etc

As for the cake thing...if you are a public business, then make and design cake for everyone, no matter how idiotic, obscene or insulting to your religion it is.

If you do not want to do any of this..go private and deny anyone you want.

How hard is any of this to understand ?

No one has answered the question..why is the religious right so afraid of progress?


Apparently as hard as it is for you to see that it's NOT DISCRIMINATION to refuse a cake for a gay wedding. (an event, not a person)

It IS DISCRIMINATION to refuse to serve gays in general. (meaning, if you just flat out refuse to serve gays all the time because you don't like them)

But refusing YOUR services to an event you have religious objections to... not discriminatory.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:43 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Onslaught2996

You're right. when you open a business you lose all rights to opinions, religious expression, self-determination.

You serve only at the whim of the customer. You are a slave to the customers opinions, attitudes, and social morals.

You are less than human and deserve nothing. The business owner is paid. That is enough.

They should dance to any tune played by the customer.


Isn't it great when they prove your point for ya? LOL

Ah, this is good comedy.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Onslaught2996

You're right. when you open a business you lose all rights to opinions, religious expression, self-determination.

You serve only at the whim of the customer. You are a slave to the customers opinions, attitudes, and social morals.

You are less than human and deserve nothing. The business owner is paid. That is enough.

They should dance to any tune played by the customer.



What is with you people on the right..always use extreme examples or opinions in order to make a point. It is like a child who pouts..


You are the business owner and make the rules..but those rules must apply for everyone and should not be cherry picked for those you don't like.

Public business is for everyone. Go private if you want different.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:50 PM
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originally posted by: Onslaught2996
You are a business, you open your doors to the public. Therefore you should serve everyone..does not matter your beliefs, sexuality, culture or race. This goes for everyone.gays, religious folks..etc

As for the cake thing...if you are a public business, then make and design cake for everyone, no matter how idiotic, obscene or insulting to your religion it is.

If you do not want to do any of this..go private and deny anyone you want.

How hard is any of this to understand ?

No one has answered the question..why is the religious right so afraid of progress?

I will answer it. Maybe not to your satisfaction, but an accurate answer none-the-less. You have to understand that some people, religious people, see God and the rules of God to be bigger and more important than anything man creates. Including laws. Look for example to the Muslim terrorist who sends his child strapped within a bomb to kill a few jews. He isn't so much evil as he is doing what he believes his God wants him to do. He truly believes that he is being better than other people by doing what God desires.

That feeling toward a God is unstoppable for some people. It is more important than living itself. And to say to those people "Screw your God...make me a cake" is just so impossible, so sacrilegious, so distasteful that they simply can't allow it to happen. Some to the point that they would rather die.

I am not one of those people...but I respect their view as much as I respect the gay person's view. The difference is the baker would say "I'm sorry but I can't do that" while the gay person says "screw your God...make my cake". So who is wrong here? Both should simply agree to disagree and not try to destroy the other person or their beliefs. Live in peace and difference.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: Onslaught2996

Nope. Business cannot make any rules.

Public accommodation will simply trump them.

When I pay money I expect them to dance.

And dance pretty for me.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: Onslaught2996

yet you are here in this thread telling all of us that it is wrong for a PRIVATE religious institution to set their own rules for both employment and acceptance into their private institution..



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:51 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Onslaught2996

Nope. Business cannot make any rules.

Public accommodation will simply trump them.

When I pay money I expect them to dance.

And dance pretty for me.


Quit pouting.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:52 PM
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originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Onslaught2996

You're right. when you open a business you lose all rights to opinions, religious expression, self-determination.

You serve only at the whim of the customer. You are a slave to the customers opinions, attitudes, and social morals.

You are less than human and deserve nothing. The business owner is paid. That is enough.

They should dance to any tune played by the customer.



What is with you people on the right..always use extreme examples or opinions in order to make a point. It is like a child who pouts..


You are the business owner and make the rules..but those rules must apply for everyone and should not be cherry picked for those you don't like.

Public business is for everyone. Go private if you want different.

OK...and their rule is we don't make cakes supporting gay marriage which is against our religion. So what is the problem?



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:55 PM
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originally posted by: poncho1982


Apparently as hard as it is for you to see that it's NOT DISCRIMINATION to refuse a cake for a gay wedding. (an event, not a person)

It IS DISCRIMINATION to refuse to serve gays in general. (meaning, if you just flat out refuse to serve gays all the time because you don't like them)

But refusing YOUR services to an event you have religious objections to... not discriminatory.


I was not going to reply to this because of the lack of intelligence.

Denying someone based on your beliefs is discrimination.

discrimination

1.
an act or instance of discriminating, or of making a distinction.
2.
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit:
racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
3.
the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment:
She chose the colors with great discrimination.
4.
Archaic. something that serves to differentiate.

Making or designing a cake for the public is considered a service and to deny that service to someone based on their lifestyle is discrimination. Get it.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: poncho1982

So you put the flour in the bowl before you put in the eggs for a gay wedding cake, but you put the flour in the bowl after you put in the eggs for a straight wedding cake, and that's what makes it special? The white fondant that goes on the gay wedding cake is put on the cake differently than on a straight wedding cake? Exactly how is the effort and craftsmanship different between a gay wedding cake and a straight wedding cake when the cakes look and taste the same?

You're forgiven for your ignorance on how you bake and decorate a wedding cake. (hint: it's the same for a gay couple as it is for a straight couple)



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
OK...and their rule is we don't make cakes supporting gay marriage which is against our religion. So what is the problem?


If your business is making cakes for the public than it is a service to the public.

To deny that service based on someones lifestyle than becomes discrimination. If you don't want any of these issues..then become a privately owned religious ,gay ,White only or whatever business.

Not such a hard concept is it.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
In my opinion...absolutely YES! There should be black only clubs, gay only bars, Christian only hotels, Jewish only cabs and everything else. The entire idea of a "melting pot" has been discredited by our history. As much as some people wish we didn't see other's differences...we do. We like being with people like ourselves, with our values, our fears. We want our family to be like us, we want our friends to be like us...and why not.


Those are all fine. Establishments for certain members are not a problem. However, when they are "not open to the public" they typically have something that clearly states that.

I disagree that the melting pot concept is proven wrong by history. Some of us don't have a problem with mixing with other cultures. It used to be that a mixture was fine because everyone who came here, although different, were American. I think maybe the problem is that American and what that means has changed.

It's also one thing to want to be with people you identify with and another to want to only be with those you identify with and remove the rest. You can be in the company you prefer and accept those you don't still. I don't hang with the "White Power Crowd" but I don't deny them their right to be.


Forcing an animal like man to live in a manner that is against his nature hasn't worked very well...has it? Why not allow people to be with other people with whom they share a brotherhood.


Nobody is stopping anyone from being with people they share a bond with. You're totally free to be with who you please. Not everyone wants to be with only people like themselves though. Some of us get along quite fine with people who aren't exactly like us. Sometimes it even makes people more interesting when they are different.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

everyone discriminates...

everyone who lives near a Disney theme park in Florida (Kissimmee) knows that if you are not a member of the LGBT community with references from an already existing employee of Disney you cannot get a job there...(I do know this factually as I didn't qualify for a position with Disney either, and someone from the LGBT community told me why..lol)

everyone who has ever been to Hooters knows they don't hire ugly old flat chested women..

businesses discriminate based on how they want to be perceived in their community, and to the public at large... but somehow, it is only wrong for when its a Christian who wants to practice their own version of Christianity?

Its messed up to say the least...



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: poncho1982


Apparently as hard as it is for you to see that it's NOT DISCRIMINATION to refuse a cake for a gay wedding. (an event, not a person)

It IS DISCRIMINATION to refuse to serve gays in general. (meaning, if you just flat out refuse to serve gays all the time because you don't like them)

But refusing YOUR services to an event you have religious objections to... not discriminatory.


I was not going to reply to this because of the lack of intelligence.

Denying someone based on your beliefs is discrimination.

discrimination

1.
an act or instance of discriminating, or of making a distinction.
2.
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit:
racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
3.
the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment:
She chose the colors with great discrimination.
4.
Archaic. something that serves to differentiate.

Making or designing a cake for the public is considered a service and to deny that service to someone based on their lifestyle is discrimination. Get it.


While I believe I'm wasting my time saying this...and after you call someone else stupid, I'm going to anyway. The gay person saying to the baker, "I don't care about your stupid religion and I don't believe in your God so I'm going to force you act against your God's wishes even when you believe you will be damned in Hell for it" could also be called discrimination. Or what would you call forcing someone to betray all that they believe? I would call it the rape of another individual's belief system. But apparently you are all in favor of that.

And let me guess...because you don't like their choice of God. Right? But it is just fine that a woman wear a burka for her driver's license picture, or that jewish people get a day off school for a holiday, etc. But not those damn Christians...they are stupid and need to be forced to do what I want them to do...no matter what.

Nice.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: beezzer



You're right. when you open a business you lose all rights to opinions, religious expression, self-determination.

That's because those are human attributes and a business is not human.


You serve only at the whim of the customer. You are a slave to the customers opinions, attitudes, and social morals.

Every business is like this because without customers you have no business.


You are less than human and deserve nothing.

A company isn't human so it doesn't deserve the rights of a human.


They should dance to any tune played by the customer.

Every company that wants to be a success does this in one way or another. If you go into business expecting others to follow your beliefs then you should have opened a church instead of a profit making business.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE



The difference is the baker would say "I'm sorry but I can't do that" while the gay person says "screw your God...make my cake". So who is wrong here?


Actually, the baker would be saying...

"screw the justice system and laws against discrimination made so that each citizen can be treated as equal. Screw treating others as you would like to be treated."

To which the gay person responds,

"Then your business is unlawful and should be brought to justice to make sure others aren't discriminated against."

This is about The Christian God the same one who says to obey the laws of the land?

The same God who says to treat others as you would like to be treated yet now some religious hypocritically cry discrimination and persecution while wanting to treat gays the same way?



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 06:07 PM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: mOjOm

An Amish farmer will not hire anyone outside of the Amish community... yet.. they will sell their goods to all of us, but they wont hire a one of us...

It also doesn't make me mad, nor does it even stop me from doing business with the Amish.. I rather like some of their goods, and it saves me a bit of work... but they do discriminate when they hire, because they only do so within their own community..

A mosque will not employ a non-Muslim.. anyone can go and hear the khutba, but they wont hire anyone to work in their mosque or their religious schools who is not a practicing Muslim...

If a Muslim works at walmart they can specify that they won't sell alcohol at the checkout, and walmart has to accomodate them if and when at all possible, they also have to accomodate prayer times for their Muslim employees etc...


Now this is where I see the problem. I'm all good with what you describe until you get to the muslim working at walmart. A mosque can only employ a muslim, makes sense. A christian school only allows christians, no problem. But if a muslim is working at walmart his religion no longer takes priority. Walmart isn't Religious nor does it follow any religious policies so why should it make a special case for the muslim guys religion. He can go work at a muslim establishment if he wants to work by Islamic rules. Walmart is secular and has no obligation to go by his rules.




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