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Republican Congress Strips Women and Gays of Rights Under Guise of ‘Religious Freedom’

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posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: beezzer



Also it can't really be reversed for the reasons I said. Reversing it is saying that a subset of a groups rights are more important than the group in whole.


Exactly (bolded by me). No "subset" should ever have more rights than anyone else.



If you honestly think that those with a religion deserve more rights than every other citizen than you are a very scarey person.


I don't remember ever saying that, but please, feel free to put words in my mouth. If you'd like, I'll give you my password so you can type it out for me.




posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: beezzer

I agree that no subset should be deserving of more rights.

Also you did say that when you were trying to reverse her statement to make a point. The reversed statement is exactly what I said it was.

She was saying, everyone should have equal rights, while you were saying by reversing it the exact opposite.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: beezzer

I agree that no subset should be deserving of more rights.

Also you did say that when you were trying to reverse her statement to make a point. The reversed statement is exactly what I said it was.

She was saying, everyone should have equal rights, while you were saying by reversing it the exact opposite.


No.

I was simply putting Christian people in the place of LGBT people.

There's obviously a problem.

One side says, "Suck it up you bible thumpers, you cannot have religious expression during business hours!"

The other side is saying, "I disagree with your lifestyle and I refuse to participate".

Depending on where you personally sit will determine your stance on the issue.

And really, the way society is going, the "thumpers" will lose. Religion is mocked. Personal expression is ridiculed (unless it's avant guarde).

It's the way it is in society that holds NO regard for respect of an individuals rights.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

The only thing the LGBT community are asking for (the rational ones of us anyway) are the same rights already enjoyed by the religious, straight women, straight men, and ethnic minorities. The same things Martin Luther King Jr. fought for. The ability to not be discriminated against and denied the same goods and services as everyone one else simply for being what we are. To not be excluded from having a job or career simply for being who we are. To not be treated as lesser, simply for being who we are. That's not asking to be superior to anyone, it's asking to be brought to the same level.

Addendum: As an example, I don't think a christian should be denied or excluded from any goods and services for being christian. Nor do I think your religion should ever be held against you in a job. Christianity is a choice as much as being gay could ever be considered a choice (that being gay is a choice is debatable but irrelevant to the point) yet I still don't believe that your making the choice to be Christian should allow someone to deny you goods, services, or a job. Fortunately, Christians already have these rights and privileges. The problem is, Christians are trying to take advantage of these privileges which they barely realize they have, while at the same time denying the LGBT community from sharing the exact same rights and privileges.
edit on 4/27/2015 by Puppylove because: Addendums are fun!!!



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: beezzer



I don't remember ever saying that, but please, feel free to put words in my mouth. If you'd like, I'll give you my password so you can type it out for me.


That is exactly what you were saying. That every one else's rights ended where the religious person's rights begin. That is the same as saying that a person's religious rights are more important than any other rights of citizens. I am saying that the rights of citizens are more important than a person's religious rights. The human rights of a person to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness take precedence over a person's religious right to take those away from someone. The civil right of equal treatment in public accommodation takes precedence over a person's religious right to treat someone unequally in a public accommodation business.

A person's religious rights to worship whatever god they want, or to go to whatever church they want or to pray however they want or to live their own personal life according to their religious principles (no dancing, drinking, eating pork, having premarital or homosexual sex, etc.) shall not be infringed by anyone else.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 11:35 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: beezzer



I don't remember ever saying that, but please, feel free to put words in my mouth. If you'd like, I'll give you my password so you can type it out for me.


That is exactly what you were saying. That every one else's rights ended where the religious person's rights begin. That is the same as saying that a person's religious rights are more important than any other rights of citizens. I am saying that the rights of citizens are more important than a person's religious rights. The human rights of a person to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness take precedence over a person's religious right to take those away from someone. The civil right of equal treatment in public accommodation takes precedence over a person's religious right to treat someone unequally in a public accommodation business.

A person's religious rights to worship whatever god they want, or to go to whatever church they want or to pray however they want or to live their own personal life according to their religious principles (no dancing, drinking, eating pork, having premarital or homosexual sex, etc.) shall not be infringed by anyone else.



You said. .


I am saying that the rights of citizens are more important than a person's religious rights.


I know. I know that you and many like you believe that. That a person's religious rights are less than the rights of a citizen. (though, religious people are still considered citizens, I think)

And


The civil right of equal treatment in public accommodation takes precedence over a person's religious right to treat someone unequally in a public accommodation business.


As I was saying, the respect for another person's beliefs are going to disappear. Religious rights will disappear.

Celebrate. You will win this one.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
I am saying that the rights of citizens are more important than a person's religious rights. The human rights of a person to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness take precedence over a person's religious right to take those away from someone. The civil right of equal treatment in public accommodation takes precedence over a person's religious right to treat someone unequally in a public accommodation business.




Absolutely right.
But you may as well bang your head against a brick wall.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 11:40 AM
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a reply to: beezzer

All I can say is that the citizen's right to worship whichever god they want and to go to whichever church they want and to live their own personal life according to their own principles will never go away.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 11:42 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: beezzer

All I can say is that the citizen's right to worship whichever god they want and to go to whichever church they want and to live their own personal life according to their own principles will never go away.


Bullsh#t.

But tell yourself whatever you wish.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

How is he lying to himself about the religious people right's to worship and that will never go away?

I don't think you really understand what we are trying to say to you?

This is about business, not church. Or in the case of OP it's employment.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien

This said it all.



I am saying that the rights of citizens are more important than a person's religious rights.




posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

Yes that's is correct. Religion and business/employment are separate.

People have the right to do whatever they want and worship. We are not trumping that. Never. Ever.

However when it comes to business and employment they do not have the right to discriminate.

Understand?



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien

So you're saying that once a religious person walks through the door of a business, turns on the "Open" sign, and starts the day, they aren't allowed to have the freedom of religious expression anymore.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Deaf Alien

So you're saying that once a religious person walks through the door of a business, turns on the "Open" sign, and starts the day, they aren't allowed to have the freedom of religious expression anymore.



Not if it denys a customer equal rights.

They have the right to tell a customer they don't support LGBT - - but not the right not to serve them (in the same way they serve others) because of it.


edit on 27-4-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: beezzer



So you're saying that once a religious person walks through the door of a business, turns on the "Open" sign, and starts the day, they aren't allowed to have the freedom of religious expression anymore.


*sighs* We never said that.

We are talking about DISCRIMINATION. No business owners regardless of their beliefs or lack thereof are allowed to discriminate against their customers and workers for who they are.

Let's take a Christian bookstore for example. I walk in with a shirt that says "I'm a proud atheist" I should be able to shop there without them kicking me out for being atheist.

Actually in retrospect they wouldn't try to kick me out LOL because they would try to keep me there and try to convert me LOL. Bad example maybe haha.
edit on 4/27/2015 by Deaf Alien because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Deaf Alien

So you're saying that once a religious person walks through the door of a business, turns on the "Open" sign, and starts the day, they aren't allowed to have the freedom of religious expression anymore.



Why do you think discriminating against homosexuals is an aspect of religious freedom exactly?



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien

Let's take a Christian bookstore for example. I walk in with a shirt that says "I'm a proud atheist" I should be able to shop there without them kicking me out for being atheist.



Right, and if the Christian bookstore owner wore a t-shirt that said "Jesus Saves", he is perfectly within his rights. That is freedom of religious expression. Telling a group of people they don't deserve the same product or service that you sell to everyone else does NOT qualify as freedom of religious expression. It DOES qualify as discrimination.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why do you equate not wanting to participate in gay marriage discrimination?



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why do you equate not wanting to participate in gay marriage discrimination?


Not participating in gay marriage is a BIT different than denying someone the ability to marry who they want.



posted on Apr, 27 2015 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why do you equate not wanting to participate in gay marriage discrimination?


Not participating in gay marriage is a BIT different than denying someone the ability to marry who they want.


Didn't know businesses had that power and ability to do that.

Golly!



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