Marines Preparing for Riot Control in American Soil.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yah, disheartening when they liaison with militarized police departments and train off base in cities.

The training is occurring off base. Another blurring of lines between civil and military.

It of course happens already in case we haven't noticed. Guard and 'other' units pop up during civil unrest (Ferguson), Man hunts (Boston Bomber) and natural disasters (Katrina).

There were a lot of upset citizens over the video you linked. A Lot of people 'say' they aren't going to go quietly. Too many Americans shoot all too well. I don't think small unit tactics will be entirely effective against Americans. If something slips ... the military will quickly transition to OPs they've practiced in the ME. Can you imagine airstrikes on your neighborhoods?

You hear a Lot of guys in uniform say they won't fire on Americans at home. I don't believe it.

I suspect Obama would declare a national emergency and suspend the Constitution. No telling what'll happen after that.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
But these exercises are being aimed at crowd control because of civil disturbances that they are expecting to happen in the U.S.

National Guard has for a long time helped in case of emergencies, but we are talking now about Army, Marines and other special ops training for civil disturbances in the U.S. in conjunction with LEAs.

Its not an issue that the regular army, national guard and the marines are training on US soil because there is an established history of it happening before. The real issue is the participation of Special Ops.

originally posted by: Snarl
A Lot of people 'say' they aren't going to go quietly. Too many Americans shoot all too well. I don't think small unit tactics will be entirely effective against Americans. If something slips ... the military will quickly transition to OPs they've practiced in the ME. Can you imagine airstrikes on your neighborhoods?

You hear a Lot of guys in uniform say they won't fire on Americans at home. I don't believe it.

I suspect Obama would declare a national emergency and suspend the Constitution. No telling what'll happen after that.

Correct, Special Ops have NO role, nor the training required to participate in law enforcement lead man-hunts, disaster relief operations or riot control support. Their training on US soil, during these mock-martial law, training scenarios, only serves ONE purpose, to establish the means and methods to eliminate resistance fighters, military trained partisan groups and effective rebel leaders. The US government, at least to some degree, IS in fact, training LEO's and military personnel to PREVENT another Declaration of Independence or the formation of strong pockets of armed resistance (partisans), fighting against the status quo. They know very well, the historical successes of the Peasants Revolt, the French Revolution, the Bonus Army, Yugoslav Partisans against the Germans during WWII, Shay's Rebellion, the Battle of Blair Mountain, the Whiskey Rebellion, etc. In fact, such armed conflict may be happening as we speak, but blacked out of the media. How would we really know any different?

These are things that the US government hasn't faced in a LONG time and they know that we may be entering a period where some people are just going to stop listening to what they are told to do because they have nothing else to lose. Some of these resistors are going to be former veterans and people with REAL leadership skills that failed in corporate America and have changed sides. The government can't stop people like that, with soldiers trained only for riot control and disaster relief, they will NEED assassins to stop these people. There are DEFINITE counter-insurgency and anti-partisan elements, being added to American military training, for operations on US soil. This is something ALL US citizens should be concerned with.

The US governments learned a lot about how to do counter-insurgency and anti-partisan operations from the Germans that were allowed to enter the USA after WWII. Remember the Germans had very efficient systems and units in place to deal with revolting populations in occupied countries. If anyone has any doubts and wants to learn more, read up on the Sicherungs-Divisionen, Ordnungspolizei and the Schutzmannschaft. You'll see that we already have systems and organizations like this today, in the USA, which did not exist 20 years ago.

Americans missed their chance to take the "Owners of Capital" by surprise. If communities had ruffed up the executives whom were shipping jobs out of the country, long ago, maybe their attitude would be different today. But instead the lower classes let it slide and now these "owners of capital" think money makes their mortal bodies, invincible. They wouldn't believe such, if, they actually had to face real mobs chasing after them. Only then, would they finally understand their own mortality, as the mob came for them. Both Shay's Rebellion and the "Peasants Revolt", were instances where the people took matters into their own hands when government and the "owners of capital" would not act on their behalf.

Americans in the 21st century are no different than the slaves that worked on colonial and US plantations for decades without a single thought of resiting or dying for freedom. From 1640-1867, more than a half a million of these people accepted the status quo, toiling away, generation after generation, as slaves. Even worse they remained second-class citizens throughout the early 20th century. In contrast, the Jews had MANY uprising attempts against the Germans, during WWII, both inside and outside of the labor camps. Following the war they got fed up and started their own country.

Americans for the most part have chosen,they want to be the fed slave, not the resistance fighter.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Part of me wonders just how naive some people are, that they think their own government shouldn't prepare for serious incidents in their own country.

We know these things happen, Mumbai anyone? Sydney? London in 05? 9/11?

What do you expect to happen in response to a roaming threat on your streets? Do you just assume that no training would be needed? Would you expect your government to sit back and do absolutely nothing while a rampaging mob murders people throughout a city?

Lets not pretend, if there was a major terrorist act in your city, on the scale of Mumbai, you would all be demanding that your government comes and saves you. If they didn't, you would be OUTRAGED and be screaming about them being totally useless and ineffectual.

Like it or not, all our countries face threats, and like it or not, all of our countries have to be prepared for these things, and that does involve drills and scenario training.

Get back to me when your government is actually doing what so many paranoid people "suspect" is coming any day now. Just as a reminder, Alex Jones and plenty of others have been "preparing" for the "coming Martial Law" for a decade now, and we're all still waiting.

a reply to: Rocker2013

You get outta here with that logical crap!

Boooo! Hisssssss!

originally posted by: Rocker2013
Like it or not, all our countries face threats, and like it or not, all of our countries have to be prepared for these things, and that does involve drills and scenario training.

Except, those other countries are not only better at it (because they don't have two oceans protecting them), but they also don't inconvenience the general populace while they train. Other developed countries are discrete and polite about the whole process, the American government is not.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Cs gas isn't lol

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: rickymouse

If it wasn't so worrying I'll laugh. But I am certain you can see how wrong this is. Whatever it is they are preparing for, whether it is a major economic crash, or the implementation of laws that Americans will riot against, etc. To me this is extremely worrying.

I stated this previously on another thread: assuming the United States Military will turn against the people is beyond absurd. While I do believe that there are unsavory elements in the United States, the military is the wrong place to look. We frequently discuss our constitutional oath. We exist to protect the people of the United States and we often come from the poorest of backgrounds, we understand the people because we ARE the people. The military really isn't this monolithic unemotional structure that it gets painted to be on certain topics. I'm sure a lot of my veteran brothers and sisters on here will agree.

Now to address the topic at hand, in our modern role as a military that does NOT face conventional warfare overseas our usual actives goes as follows: Insert Special Operations units and intelligence gathering capabilities, next have the previously mentioned assets form agreements with the local police/military. In most of these countries the military is for the most part also the police force. It is important during training to try and establish a realistic environment so during Jade Helm these operators will be trying to form alliances with the "indigenous forces."

I understand how all this looks like a crazy conspiracy from the outside but on the inside it's routine training that has evolved out of what we have seen in Kosovo, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bahrain, Jordan, Qatar, and several of the other countries that both the Army and Marine Corps frequently deploy to. Hell I have done plenty of riot training, do you know why? Because we found ourselves frequently using those skills in the congested areas of non-combat zones because opening fire on crowds is frowned upon in our ROE.


EDIT TO ADD: For those of you questioning "Special Forces operating on American Soil" I come from North Carolina where Robin Sage provides A LOT of money to local families and communities. Robin Sage is the culminating event for the Army's Special Forces school. Several counties to include their police forces and governments are brought into the scenario. This scenario has been going on a few times a year for several decades now and is constantly evolving.

-Rav

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: rickymouse

If it wasn't so worrying I'll laugh. But I am certain you can see how wrong this is. Whatever it is they are preparing for, whether it is a major economic crash, or the implementation of laws that Americans will riot against, etc. To me this is extremely worrying.

I used to know a few ex-marines. When they had a few drinks they got funny. What a riot.

That should be relevant to a thread about riot control.

You know LA had to call in Marines from camp pendelton during Rodney king riots don't you? Better to train the Marines now than have them go into a situation like that and learn on the fly.

originally posted by: ravenger13
I understand how all this looks like a crazy conspiracy from the outside but on the inside it's routine training that has evolved out of what we have seen in Kosovo, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bahrain, Jordan, Qatar, and several of the other countries that both the Army and Marine Corps frequently deploy to. Hell I have done plenty of riot training, do you know why? Because we found ourselves frequently using those skills in the congested areas of non-combat zones because opening fire on crowds is frowned upon in our ROE.

-Rav

I too, in another life, did riot training as well, the difference however between myself and my peers at the time, was that I was aware of history and the bureaucracy of Nazi Germany. AGAIN, the US governments learned a lot about how to do counter-insurgency and anti-partisan operations from the Germans that were allowed to enter the USA after WWII. Remember the Germans had very efficient systems and units in place to deal with revolting populations in occupied countries. Read up on the Sicherungs-Divisionen, Ordnungspolizei and the Schutzmannschaft. You'll see that we have systems and organizations like this today, in the USA, which did not exist here 20 years ago.

I think you are looking way to deep into this.
All military in all countries practice for every situation that can cause a threat to the population they are protecting, even from itself. Riot control is just another thing for soldiers to train for. Because what if there was a riot that the local police cannot control? Then what, let chaos just take over?

It's nice to have some skepticism, but in this case, just because it's been made public more than usual doesn't mean they are preparing for something that'll happen within the next month or so, it's just an exercise.

a reply to: ravenger13

I agree with you.. hype like this is actually, imho, intended to make people look away from the real problem, and that is legislation and the fact that little by little our rights are being taken through legislation..

Most people don't even realize that over the DUI checkpoint laws that it actually went to the Supreme Court.. those defenders of the constitution supposedly.... yet.. checkpoints were found unconstitutional - by the supreme court.. but they decided that the benefits outweighed the cost - the cost being our loss of constitutional rights.. so they declared checkpoints legal...

when everyone is waiting for the military to take to the streets and start rounding people up... they are legislating away our constitutional rights.. and people will find themselves happy with that, so long as the "rounding up" event never happens - because of course that is what they are afraid of..

we need to be paying attention to all the things that are being legislated... when we don't.. we play right into their hands, and will find one day that everything America once stood for is gone.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
when everyone is waiting for the military to take to the streets and start rounding people up... they are legislating away our constitutional rights.. and people will find themselves happy with that, so long as the "rounding up" event never happens - because of course that is what they are afraid of..

we need to be paying attention to all the things that are being legislated... when we don't.. we play right into their hands, and will find one day that everything America once stood for is gone.

AGAIN, read up on the Sicherungs-Divisionen, Ordnungspolizei and the Schutzmannschaft. You'll see that we have systems and organizations like this today, in the USA, which did not exist 20 years ago. Legislation doesn't work without these paramilitary organizations and LEO staff enforcing it. They go-hand in-hand.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

take a step back. Marines love this country more than the average american. Marines train hard. Marines fight hard. we aren't going to fight Americans. you dont need to fear Marines unless you are attacking us or our country.

originally posted by: crustyjuggler27
take a step back. Marines love this country more than the average american. Marines train hard. Marines fight hard. we aren't going to fight Americans. you dont need to fear Marines unless you are attacking us or our country.

This isn't the issue, the regular army, national guard and the marines have an established history of training on US soil. The real issue is the participation of Special Ops. Special Ops have NO role, nor the training required to participate in law enforcement led man-hunts, disaster relief operations and/or riot control support.

a reply to: BlueJacket

…how would this be perpetrated nation wide? Piece by piece, or all at once…

Probably case by case. In New Orleans we saw how they took advantage of the disaster to 'collect' firearms…

originally posted by: boohoo

originally posted by: crustyjuggler27
take a step back. Marines love this country more than the average american. Marines train hard. Marines fight hard. we aren't going to fight Americans. you dont need to fear Marines unless you are attacking us or our country.

This isn't the issue, the regular army, national guard and the marines have an established history of training on US soil. The real issue is the participation of Special Ops. Special Ops have NO role, nor the training required to participate in law enforcement lead man-hunts, disaster relief operations or riot control support.

That is wildly inaccurate about the training. Special Operations troops aren't magically sprouted out of the ground. They start out in the same place as everybody else in their branch and receive the same training as everybody else. And then at some point down the line, their training shifts.

But to put forth the idea that a Green Beret or Recon Marine has no idea how to deal with disaster relief or a civil disturbance is pure fallacy.

This whole thing disturbs me. Perhaps it's my distrust of authority and you can't get much more authoritarian than troops with armaments used for making war. Drones anyone?

I have a bad feeling about this....

originally posted by: Shamrock6
That is wildly inaccurate about the training. Special Operations troops aren't magically sprouted out of the ground. They start out in the same place as everybody else in their branch and receive the same training as everybody else. And then at some point down the line, their training shifts.

But to put forth the idea that a Green Beret or Recon Marine has no idea how to deal with disaster relief or a civil disturbance is pure fallacy.

You're splitting hairs. It doesn't matter "if they know how to do it" because their CURRENT job training does not support such a function. Soldiers CURRENTLY assigned to Special Ops positions, serve NO useful or ETHICAL role, in LEO support operations on US soil.

This is an impossible argument to make and I can't believe you are even suggesting it.

Straight from a DOD press release:

Though known by different names, special operations forces during World War II performed many of the same tasks that they do today -- infiltrating behind enemy lines, partnering with allies on sensitive operations, and assuming the most dangerous tasks. After more than a decade of wars, the force is more capable and battle-tested than ever before,”

a reply to: Snarl

... the military will quickly transition to OPs they've practiced in the ME. Can you imagine airstrikes on your neighborhoods?

Hi Snarl. Dunno how far that would go, be it drones or "surgical" air strikes. It wouldn't be the first time someone thought of that… this is from "Fritz the Cat", an adult themed cartoon from the early 70's. Airstrikes about 4 minutes in…


As far as lessons learned overseas, Jade Helm…

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