Disclosure of the Moon Landing Hoax: Part 2

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
a reply to: turbonium1


What that article does is paraphrase the words of two artists that used the fossil as part of an exhibition. It dos not prove Drees was there, or that he received anything from anyone.

Now maybe your eyesight is as poor as Drees'. Does this help?

Where is your proof that anyone from the US, or NASA, or Apollo 11, claimed it was a lunar rock?

Don't get 'massive font' angry, now...

I've already told you - over and over again 0 that nobody (afaik) is on record specifically claiming it was a lunar rock....so drop it, already!

Oh really? Then your past few posts have been misleading.

I said they intentionally led them to believe it was a lunar rock.

The whole point is not to STATE it is a genuine moon rock, rather, it is to CONVINCE them it is a genuine moon rock.
That's what happened.

This is something you have made up to cover your lack of evidence. You have no idea what happened.

Of course, they could have stated on the plaque "genuine moon rock", but that would also seal the deal for them if it was found to be petrified wood. Why would they take such a stupid risk, if they don't need to? The point is to FOOL them, and not get caught doing it. This makes perfect sense.

The plaque should have described it as 'petrified wood', because that is what it actually is. But if it did, everyone would know it was not a moon rock. Which was the whole point of it, to think it IS a moon rock.

It doesn't say it is a moon rock. it doesn't say anything at all.

oh wait...

So that's why it has NO description of the object.

So you have even less of anything to go on. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever at all to link the two objects apart from they were both included in a box of personal effects. They were put together as part of an art exhibit. No claim was made about what the rock was until that exhibition, and it was the artists who made it.

There is only one thing it COULD be, and SHOULD be, and WOULD be, anyway - it doesn't need to say it, because they 'know' what it must be, which is a real 'moon rock.

Nope. You are making up what you think they are saying and what you think I should be thinking. You have absolutely nothing to prove your point and are resorting to fantasy to make a nonsensical point.

Worst.

Dot-to-dot.

Ever.

originally posted by: choos

why have you never once questioned Middendorf's intentions??

you hoax believers are the ones who always like to think you question everything..

how do you know the Middendorf is a good person??

how do you know that Middendorf didnt give Drees the petrified wood to get onto his good side and maybe be apart of his will??

Do you seriously believe what you're telling me here?

You suggest Middendorf desperately wanted to get into Drees' will. Why you think that, I have no idea, but let's go on..... so, Middendorf went into a petrified forest, hacked a chunk of wood off, put it under glass, engraved the plaque, and gave to to Drees, who he knew would be so impressed with the 'moon rock' gift, he would most certainly want to write Middendorf into his will, and take his children out of it. Then, if all goes as planned, Drees will kick the bucket before long, and he will inherit the vast Drees' fortune!!

Sounds perfectly reasonable.

Now, I don't know if he is a good man. It could be he is an evil, shape-shifting alien, and the rock he gave to Drees contains a beacon, which is sending signals to his home planet. This beacon would be very helpful, because they might want to invade Earth some day, and this lets them know where it is.

I think that's just as reasonable a theory as yours, wouldn't you agree?

originally posted by: choos
also why was there no publicity of such a large moon rock given as a gift to Drees directly?? why was the rock not in some sort of protection?? why wasnt Drees name on the placard?? the only thing that suits all the questions is that Middendorf gave him the rock and placard, saying its a moon rock to fool Drees as he was old bad of hearing and seeing, for reasons only Middendorf knows, in my opinion to try to get on his good side for favours..

Yes, he wanted to inherit the Drees fortune, I know all about this fantasy-land theory of your own invention.

The problem is you have nothing BUT a fantasy-land theory, with not a fragment of evidence to support one fragment of your amazing story.

originally posted by: choos
now that it has come out, he is trying to save his own ass by putting the blame on someone else, who gave him the rock..

Sure, and perhaps he's also an alien, too!

No need to prove anything, right?

Just say it 'could' be this, or 'could' be that, because nobody can ever prove you are wrong!

Middendorf: Hehehe, I know what to do. I'll find something that looks like a moon rock, and give it to Drees. I'm sure he will be so impressed, he will write me into his will. When he dies, I will be RICH BEYOND MY DREAMS! AHHHAHAHAH (cackle, snort).

Look - all the evidence supports one thing, and one thing only - that it was given to Middendorf, who believed it was a genuine 'moon rock', and he gave it to Drees during the Apollo 11 astronaut visit.

Here ill make this easy the Dutch were reported to have only 2 moon rocks one from apollo 11 and one from apollo 17. There was nothing in the press about being others etc. The museum took it that they had the apollo 11 moon rock not realizing it wasnt. When they receive stuff from the estate it came in was cataloged and displayed. Much like US presidents will create their own libraries were you can go see things they used in the white house. Now lets get to do something fun ill show you the real moon rocks they have ill also include a translation after the video.Especially since that combination of english and german is hard to understand lol.



nterviewer: "This week, in the depot of Boerhaave, Maanstof!
This week it became news that the Moon is very dangerous. The dust on the Moon is so fine, that it can penetrate human lungs and cause severe astmatic attacks.
In Leiden, as I mentioned before, they do have a little of that lethal dust, which was given to the museum by the Americans. And here, is Bart, from the Museum Boerhaave, to tell us more about it. Bart? How dangerous is this?"
Bart: "Well, this is not dangerous I'm glad to say. The moondust is very tightly encapsulated in a perspex ball, which protects us ofcourse, but it also protects the little stone.
The nice thing is that the little flags, that went along with the missions to the Moon have actually been there, during two different missions. This first flag was on board of the Apollo 11, the famous mission that went to the Moon in '69. And quite possibly Buzz Aldrin or Neil Armstrong had this little flag in their hands. It's been on the Moon and we got the flag together with a little moondust."
Interviewer: "Well, there could be some moondust on that flag?!"
Bart: "Yes, there could very well be a little of the dangerous dust on that flag, too. And you could ask us, why isn't this object in the Museum, for all to watch? Well, the Musem has a lot of special pieces in the collection and basically, we haven't got enough room for this."
Interviewer: "Do the Americans know, that these objects, their presents, are here in the basement storage of the Museum?"
Bart: "Yes, I think they know".

Looks like the Willem Dees rock (which was not in lucite and had nothing to do with the card found in his belongings) had nothing to do with anything.

originally posted by: turbonium1

Do you seriously believe what you're telling me here?

You suggest Middendorf desperately wanted to get into Drees' will. Why you think that, I have no idea, but let's go on..... so, Middendorf went into a petrified forest, hacked a chunk of wood off, put it under glass, engraved the plaque, and gave to to Drees, who he knew would be so impressed with the 'moon rock' gift, he would most certainly want to write Middendorf into his will, and take his children out of it. Then, if all goes as planned, Drees will kick the bucket before long, and he will inherit the vast Drees' fortune!!

do you even know what petrified wood is??

and seriously you cant even get the story right!!!

the petrified wood was NOT put under glass it was found just as a stone in one of Mr Drees drawers..

and why the hell are you introducing an engraved plaque?? no one no where mentioned an engraved plaque, it was a printed card to commemorate the Apollo astronauts visit

how about you get your story straight before you go making assumptions..

Sounds perfectly reasonable.

because you cant even get the story right!!

Now, I don't know if he is a good man. It could be he is an evil, shape-shifting alien, and the rock he gave to Drees contains a beacon, which is sending signals to his home planet. This beacon would be very helpful, because they might want to invade Earth some day, and this lets them know where it is.

I think that's just as reasonable a theory as yours, wouldn't you agree?

so you dont know what kind of man he is, but willing to put all your eggs into one basket and assume he is a good honest man.. and the gift he gave to Drees had no strings attached at all..

Yes, he wanted to inherit the Drees fortune, I know all about this fantasy-land theory of your own invention.

you dont know his intentions so how would you know??

still atleast im not making up an engraved plaque..

The problem is you have nothing BUT a fantasy-land theory, with not a fragment of evidence to support one fragment of your amazing story.

your entire story is also pure fantasy, except you have twisted facts completely such as an engraved plaque..

Sure, and perhaps he's also an alien, too!

No need to prove anything, right?

no one called him an alien.. im calling his character into question.. something you refuse to do..

Just say it 'could' be this, or 'could' be that, because nobody can ever prove you are wrong!

thats what im saying.. yet somehow you think YOU are correct and everyone else is wrong??
you cant even get the story right in the first place..

Look - all the evidence supports one thing, and one thing only - that it was given to Middendorf, who believed it was a genuine 'moon rock', and he gave it to Drees during the Apollo 11 astronaut visit.

you havent even got the evidence right.. where is the engraved plaque?? i only know of the printed plaque in drees drawer..

and the only evidence that suggests Middendorf got the rock from US state department is from Middendorf himself.. and his memory is fuzzy at best..

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever at all to link the two objects apart from they were both included in a box of personal effects. They were put together as part of an art exhibit. No claim was made about what the rock was until that exhibition, and it was the artists who made it.

The two objects are beside each other, in a drawer, in his house. One is an object that looks like a strange rock, the other is a plaque that states "To commemorate the visit to the Netherlands of the Apollo 11 astronauts". Nothing to link them, of course!

The rock in the drawer is then confirmed by the presenter as a gift, given during the Apollo 11 visit, to the Netherlands. Which just happens to be what the plaque states, as the object not linked to it.

The children kept the plaque and the rock in the same drawer, but not because they are linked together, it was merely a coincidence. The plaque was probably something the dog scrounged out of a garbage can, and the kids put in the same drawer. Or, it was something like that, anyhoo!


It just keeps getting better and better, please tell me more....

originally posted by: choos

and the only evidence that suggests Middendorf got the rock from US state department is from Middendorf himself.. and his memory is fuzzy at best..

His account is backed up by all the available evidence. I

It's umpteen times better than your wacko idea of him being a greedy, plotting fiend, and bald-faced liar, who snuck into a petrified forest to create a fake moon rock, with the evil intent of swindling his supposedly vast inheritance.

It's hilarious, I admit, but not close to having evidence, or even close to reality, or even to a rational theory. It's no better than my 'alien' theory, which only WAS meant as a joke!

Not good, not good at all...

originally posted by: turbonium1

His account is backed up by all the available evidence.

oh really?? the only evidence i see is him saying so.. perhaps you have articles that say otherwise??

It's umpteen times better than your wacko idea of him being a greedy, plotting fiend, and bald-faced liar, who snuck into a petrified forest to create a fake moon rock, with the evil intent of swindling his supposedly vast inheritance. [

It's hilarious, I admit, but not close to having evidence, or even close to reality, or even to a rational theory. It's no better than my 'alien' theory, which only WAS meant as a joke!

Not good, not good at all...

yes because the story you made up involves an engraved placard and having the rock with some sort of protection?!?! which is made up evidence to begin with.

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever at all to link the two objects apart from they were both included in a box of personal effects. They were put together as part of an art exhibit. No claim was made about what the rock was until that exhibition, and it was the artists who made it.

The two objects are beside each other, in a drawer, in his house. One is an object that looks like a strange rock, the other is a plaque that states "To commemorate the visit to the Netherlands of the Apollo 11 astronauts". Nothing to link them, of course!

By George I think he's got it...oh..wait...

The rock in the drawer is then confirmed by the presenter as a gift,

Really? Some reports suggest otherwise and that he can't remember the details...

given during the Apollo 11 visit, to the Netherlands. Which just happens to be what the plaque states, as the object not linked to it.

There is no plaque. It is a card. It mentions the Apollo 11 visit. It does not mention the fossil. It could have been given with anything.

Here is a picture of the "plaque" in the actual exhibit:



From www.bikvanderpol.net...

You can quite clearly see that it is the size of a business card, it has creases and scratches on it - exactly what you'd expect if it was stuffed in a drawer.

The children kept the plaque and the rock in the same drawer, but not because they are linked together, it was merely a coincidence. The plaque was probably something the dog scrounged out of a garbage can, and the kids put in the same drawer. Or, it was something like that, anyhoo!

So tell us, how long after he died was it donated? How long after it was donated did it end up in an art exhibit?

It just keeps getting better and better, please tell me more....

Oh I don't know - you're pretty good at fiction, you've been doing it for years in Apollo related threads, why stop now.

Again, you have absolutely not one single shred of evidence that anyone claimed, hinted, alluded, suggested, failed to confirm or deny or did or said anything that might have led anyone to the conclusion that this piece of fossilised wood was anything other than a piece of fossilised wood. You don't even have any evidence that the Ambassador gave it to Drees, because the Ambassador can't remember the details. You don't even have any proof that it was given during the Apollo visit - only that the card was. You have absolutely nothing whatsoever to hang this feeble story on. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

The first time the wood and the card with the Ambassador's name on it were linked together was in an Art exhibit in an art musuem 37 years after the card was given out. That is all you have.

a reply to: bobbypurify

That is never going to happen because we went to the moon.
Forget those other countries confirming the landings. They didn't go there to do that.
But you can bet you butt if they didn't find our flag there they sure as hell would have screamed it all over the planet. If it was a hoax it would be over now. The very fact that they didn't scream hoax is their confirmation.

What happens to regolith surface dust in a 0% humidity vacuum that is subjected to sun radiation for millions of years, it would hold huge amounts of static electricity is my theory. If so, then what happens if something with a different electric charge "lands" on the moon surface disturbing the charge? Static shock, or perhaps the regolith would stick to the ship and crew? Someone should do the math on this. I also believe that the share electrostatic charge between the regolith dust particles would be so large that its viscosity is more like a fluid than how regolith dust acts here on Earth.

-MM

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
What happens to regolith surface dust in a 0% humidity vacuum that is subjected to sun radiation for millions of years, it would hold huge amounts of static electricity is my theory. If so, then what happens if something with a different electric charge "lands" on the moon surface disturbing the charge? Static shock, or perhaps the regolith would stick to the ship and crew? Someone should do the math on this. I also believe that the share electrostatic charge between the regolith dust particles would be so large that its viscosity is more like a fluid than how regolith dust acts here on Earth.

-MM

Interesting question, and someone has indeed studied it:

www.newscientist.com...

www.nature.com...

iopscience.iop.org...

www.nasa.gov...

Those are just a few I found with a couple of quick searches.

The Apollo astronauts did indeed have a big problem with their suits getting absolutely covered in dust - look at some of the photographs for evidence of that - the last link I supplied gives good information on that.

While you can get particles to behave like a fluid, it usually relies on them either being suspended by air, or by having very little friction between them. Lunar dust is very jagged, because there is very little to erode them down into smooth ones, so they tend to stick to each other rather than roll over smoothly.

a reply to: onebigmonkey

Here is my little theory. Since the moon is a closed system where the electrostatic charge has nowhere to discharge for millions of years it would act as a battery currently charged with of billions of volts. The charge is stored between the microscopic dusts in 0% humidity vacuum environment until something with another charge disturbs it; after which the charge stored in the entire Moon's surface would discharge as there is no electric resistance forces to stop it from doing so. If not, then where does all this stored elecrostatic energy go?

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

The lunar surface may have low electrical conductivity, but it still has some and can carry away charge just as Earth does.

You also get discharges naturally when micro-meteorites hit the surface, and also when the charge becomes sufficient to cause particles to repel each other (see the articles I linked to).

a reply to: onebigmonkey

When the moon is in the Earth's Magnetotail there are huge spikes in currents as well as huge streaming bolts of lightning across the lunar-scape. I believe that is is caused by the Earth disturbing the delicate balance of the Moon's electrostatic charge - I know there are other more "acceptable" theories but this is my own. This is just one of many reasons I believe that no mission has ever successfully landed on the moon -they would either be "fried" when they landed and/or completely covered with thick layers of regolith dust. The moon has nowhere to naturally get rid of the energy from the constant radiation from the Sun accept by surface reflection, all the other energy goes into building a billions of volts electrostatic charge. Energy does not disappear, it is only transformed, and if not all the Suns energy is reflected then what is the rest of the energy transformed into - an electrostatic charge is the only sound solution...

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Those spikes are discharges, meaning that the static has been dealt with. It's not a way out theory of yours, it has been studied.

www.nasa.gov...

news.nationalgeographic.com...

If you believe it makes landing impossible, then you need to come up with numbers to prove that. If it's impossible for Apollo manned landers to cope with, it is also impossible for the Soviet, US and Chinese unmanned landers, yet somehow all of those have worked just fine.

a reply to: onebigmonkey

They can't have landed, that's my point here.

-MM

Once again, the question of ONE little rock in the Netherlands is largely irrelevant compared to the big picture.

They brought back EIGHT HUNDRED POUNDS of material. They've distributed it and continue to distribute samples to researchers all over the world.

Is there one instance of any researcher saying, "Hey, this is just petrified wood"?

Yet in just this ONE instance they try to pass off a fake rock?

All these alleged gigantic conspiracies require the conspirators to be supernaturally brilliant and virtually infallible while simultaneously being complete idiots.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
a reply to: bobbypurify

That is never going to happen because we went to the moon.
Forget those other countries confirming the landings. They didn't go there to do that.
But you can bet you butt if they didn't find our flag there they sure as hell would have screamed it all over the planet. If it was a hoax it would be over now. The very fact that they didn't scream hoax is their confirmation.

Your entire argument is an opinion. Yet, you come across so conclusive. Many here are just sharing ideas. If we went to the moon, and this is all so silly, why are you concerned with this thread? Because your posts here have had little to offer or share within our fun little community.

a reply to: bobbypurify

My opinion is entirely conclusive. Do you actually believe that's Russia or China would be a party to the hoax? The one supposedly perpetrated to convince the world we were superior to Russia in our space program? I for one do not see either of those countries supporting a story that puts them in second place with a lie.
You can believe what you like. I'm not here to prove anything or convince anyone. What I say is sensible. No way they would support such a lie. No way in hell.
As to why I'm in the thread...entertainment...why are you concerned with what my motives might be?

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Those spikes are discharges, meaning that the static has been dealt with. It's not a way out theory of yours, it has been studied.

www.nasa.gov...

news.nationalgeographic.com...

If you believe it makes landing impossible, then you need to come up with numbers to prove that. If it's impossible for Apollo manned landers to cope with, it is also impossible for the Soviet, US and Chinese unmanned landers, yet somehow all of those have worked just fine.

Landers can't be grounded so it doesn't discharge the electrins. Thoug would be fun to run a tether to the surface and watch the display. You can hold on to a 10000 volt power line as long as you don't ground yourself. This is why electrial vehicles don't allow there baskets to ground it's perfectly safe for the operator.