Disclosure of the Moon Landing Hoax: Part 2

originally posted by: choos

problem is.. the US GOV never gave out any kind of rocks during the good will tour to any nation..

only Middendorf gave Drees petrified wood during the goodwill tour..

so what you should be claiming is that Middendorf disliked the queen and decided to give petrified wood to an old Ex-PM to spite the queen for whatever reason.. which makes no sense.. but moon hoax theories never make sense anyway..

US Ambassador Middendorf said the US State Department gave him the fake 'moon rock'. So the US Government was obviously behind this, from day one.

Do you have any evidence that the US State Department told Middendorf it was not a real moon rock, it was just a piece of petrified wood? No, you do not.

Why would you still think the US State Department is not complicit in this ruse? Why would you think Middendorf's account is not valid?


All the excuses!!..

- it was 'confusion from Drees' children. Wrong, the account was confirmed by Middendorf.
- no moon rocks were given out on the goodwill tour.Correct, they gave out a fake 'moon rock'.
- nobody claimed it was a moon rock. Correct, they deliberately misled them into believing it was a moon rock.

According to Middendorf, the Drees family, and the Dutch Museum, it was believed to be a genuine moon rock.

The fact is, the US Government deliberately fooled people with a fake 'moon rock'.

Denying it won't change that fact.

a reply to: turbonium1

The fact is, the US Government deliberately fooled people with a fake 'moon rock'.

What people were fooled? Was there a big announcement about Drees receiving a moon rock? Seems that would be a big deal since no one else did.

Who was told that it was a moon rock? By whom?

originally posted by: turbonium1

US Ambassador Middendorf said the US State Department gave him the fake 'moon rock'.

Did he say that? Are you sure? Is he sure? You only have a media report that he said he believed that's where it came from.

So the US Government was obviously behind this, from day one.

Nope. Not one shred of evidence of any kind of conspiracy.

Do you have any evidence that the US State Department told Middendorf it was not a real moon rock, it was just a piece of petrified wood? No, you do not.

Do you have any evidence showing that Middendorf was told it was a moon rock? No, you do not.

Why would you still think the US State Department is not complicit in this ruse? Why would you think Middendorf's account is not valid?

Why do you think it is?

All the excuses!!..

- it was 'confusion from Drees' children. Wrong, the account was confirmed by Middendorf.

Not really. He is also on record as saying he doesn't remember giving it.

- no moon rocks were given out on the goodwill tour.Correct, they gave out a fake 'moon rock'.

Nope. You're making up what you think people did.

- nobody claimed it was a moon rock. Correct, they deliberately misled them into believing it was a moon rock.

Nope, never happened.

According to Middendorf, the Drees family, and the Dutch Museum, it was believed to be a genuine moon rock.

Nope, no evidence to show that.

The fact is, the US Government deliberately fooled people with a fake 'moon rock'.

Denying it won't change that fact.

Nope, no evidence to show that.

As I discussed in the other thread, there is very little evidence to show that Middendorf actually gave him the fossil at all - just a card (that makes no mention of any kind of rock) and a rock that may or may not be related and an old man who can't quite remember what he may or may not have given another old man.

I'll repeat it again, because you seem to have a problem reading it: There is not a shred of evidence that anyone ever claimed this was a moon rock. Please provide proof of your claim.

Forty-five years ago this week, Apollo 11 astronauts, Neil Armstrong, Edwin ‘Buzz’ Aldrin and Michael Collins, visited the Netherlands, just months after their Moon landing.

The three astronauts of Apollo 11 had been invited to the new International Congress Centre (RAI) in Amsterdam, where ESRO and ELDO were presenting several exhibitions on space research.

The astronauts were opened an exhibition called ‘Moon Travel 69’, held 9–19 October 1969 under the auspices of Philips N.V., in cooperation with NASA, the Smithsonian Institute, the US National Air and Space Museum and the US Information Agency. The main attractions were the original Apollo 8 Command Module capsule and a 13-metre-long model of a Saturn V rocket.

www.esa.int...


So the US Ambassador presents this object to Drees, at an exhibition called ‘Moon Travel 69’, held 9–19 October 1969, at the RAI in Amsterdam. The original Apollo 8 CM capsule, and a large model of the Saturn V rocket, were the main attractions. The exhibit is opened by the three Apollo 11 astronauts (proven with photos of them at the site).

Obviously, nothing that would have led them to believe it was a genuine Apollo 11 moon rock!

a reply to: turbonium1

So the US Ambassador presents this object to Drees, at an exhibition called ‘Moon Travel 69’, held 9–19 October 1969, at the RAI in Amsterdam.

Citation needed. Specifics, please, about where and when Middendorf gave Drees the rock.

a reply to: turbonium1

you are putting alot of faith into what Middendorf is saying..

you know he works for the US Gov right?? i thought you hoax believers dont trust government types??

Here's another source, which states Middendorf and Drees were, indeed, at the RAI at that exact time...

Shortly after returning to earth, the three crew members of the Apollo 11, a tour in which they also did to Netherlands. On October 9, 1969 the company was in the RAI Congress Centre in Amsterdam. Then US ambassador J. William Middendorf II gave on that occasion the 'moonstone' to Minister of State Willem Drees Sr. Later, the heirs Drees donated the property to the Rijksmuseum.

www.kennislink.nl...

So the astronauts were there, and the Ambassador was there, the same Ambassador who himself stated he gave the fake 'moon rock' to Drees at that time.


Do you need Drees to raise up from his grave, croak 'Yes, we thought it was a real moon rock', too??

Sheesh.

a reply to: turbonium1

Ambassador who himself stated he gave the fake 'moon rock' to Drees at that time.

He did? Where did he state that?
Maybe he did it then and there. Maybe he did it at some other time. He was, after all, the ambassador. Ambassadors generally live in the country they serve in.

a reply to: turbonium1


What that article does is paraphrase the words of two artists that used the fossil as part of an exhibition. It dos not prove Drees was there, or that he received anything from anyone.

Now maybe your eyesight is as poor as Drees'. Does this help?

Where is your proof that anyone from the US, or NASA, or Apollo 11, claimed it was a lunar rock?

originally posted by: choos
a reply to: turbonium1

you are putting alot of faith into what Middendorf is saying..

you know he works for the US Gov right?? i thought you hoax believers dont trust government types??

There are good, honest people who work for the US Government...not just bad, dishonest people.

The problem is that the bad, dishonest people are usually the ones who crave power, at any cost. The good people rarely are in position of power, and when they do, they are often murdered (ie:JFK, RFK, Lincoln), by the bad people, who take over once again.

But this is entirely off-topic, so 'nuff said..


So we have US Government people saying other US Government people gave them a fake moon rock. All the available evidence supports this claim. Nothing contradicts it.

Not that I believe it, but just to play devil's advocate, here's a BBC piece stating that Drees was given the "moon rock" by the astronauts....news.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: turbonium1

All the available evidence supports this claim. Nothing contradicts it.

All the available evidence shows that the only living person directly involved has a very dim remembrance of the situation.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance
Where does that article say the rock was given to Drees by the astronauts?

a reply to: Phage

It was given to former Prime Minister Willem Drees during a goodwill tour by the three Apollo-11 astronauts shortly after their moon mission in 1969.

source
Second paragraph.

Again, just playing devil's advocate. It's a pretty short article, and it sounds like it's just parroting other sources.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance
It is parroting.
But note that it says it was given during a goodwill tour by the astronauts, not that it was given by the astronauts.

originally posted by: turbonium1

So we have US Government people saying other US Government people gave them a fake moon rock. All the available evidence supports this claim. Nothing contradicts it.

Where is your proof that anyone from the US, or NASA, or Apollo 11, claimed it was a lunar rock?

originally posted by: turbonium1
Forty-five years ago this week, Apollo 11 astronauts, Neil Armstrong, Edwin ‘Buzz’ Aldrin and Michael Collins, visited the Netherlands, just months after their Moon landing.

The three astronauts of Apollo 11 had been invited to the new International Congress Centre (RAI) in Amsterdam, where ESRO and ELDO were presenting several exhibitions on space research.

The astronauts were opened an exhibition called ‘Moon Travel 69’, held 9–19 October 1969 under the auspices of Philips N.V., in cooperation with NASA, the Smithsonian Institute, the US National Air and Space Museum and the US Information Agency. The main attractions were the original Apollo 8 Command Module capsule and a 13-metre-long model of a Saturn V rocket.

www.esa.int...


So the US Ambassador presents this object to Drees, at an exhibition called ‘Moon Travel 69’, held 9–19 October 1969, at the RAI in Amsterdam. The original Apollo 8 CM capsule, and a large model of the Saturn V rocket, were the main attractions. The exhibit is opened by the three Apollo 11 astronauts (proven with photos of them at the site).

Obviously, nothing that would have led them to believe it was a genuine Apollo 11 moon rock!

No nothing see this rock was found by the family after his death they have no idea where it came from. It could have been in a box he kept special memories found the card and assumed it was a moon rock. odd not even the press picked up on this if he's given him a moon rock it would have been all over the news the other one was. And the only lunar samples given out were encased with a plaque telling you where it came from..

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: choos
a reply to: turbonium1

you are putting alot of faith into what Middendorf is saying..

you know he works for the US Gov right?? i thought you hoax believers dont trust government types??

There are good, honest people who work for the US Government...not just bad, dishonest people.

The problem is that the bad, dishonest people are usually the ones who crave power, at any cost. The good people rarely are in position of power, and when they do, they are often murdered (ie:JFK, RFK, Lincoln), by the bad people, who take over once again.

But this is entirely off-topic, so 'nuff said..


So we have US Government people saying other US Government people gave them a fake moon rock. All the available evidence supports this claim. Nothing contradicts it.

why have you never once questioned Middendorf's intentions??

you hoax believers are the ones who always like to think you question everything..

how do you know the Middendorf is a good person??

how do you know that Middendorf didnt give Drees the petrified wood to get onto his good side and maybe be apart of his will??

you know nothing about Mr Middendorf apart from what you have read about in the newspaper regarding the petrified wood.. and even then you cant even get the whole story..

so no, you DONT have the US gov people saying the US Gov gave the petrified wood.. the US Gov said NOTHING about giving anything to Drees.. as far as i know, Mr Drees was not even present during the Good will tour.. the astronauts never met up with Drees..

also why was there no publicity of such a large moon rock given as a gift to Drees directly?? why was the rock not in some sort of protection?? why wasnt Drees name on the placard?? the only thing that suits all the questions is that Middendorf gave him the rock and placard, saying its a moon rock to fool Drees as he was old bad of hearing and seeing, for reasons only Middendorf knows, in my opinion to try to get on his good side for favours..

now that it has come out, he is trying to save his own ass by putting the blame on someone else, who gave him the rock..

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
a reply to: turbonium1


What that article does is paraphrase the words of two artists that used the fossil as part of an exhibition. It dos not prove Drees was there, or that he received anything from anyone.

Now maybe your eyesight is as poor as Drees'. Does this help?

Where is your proof that anyone from the US, or NASA, or Apollo 11, claimed it was a lunar rock?

Don't get 'massive font' angry, now...

I've already told you - over and over again 0 that nobody (afaik) is on record specifically claiming it was a lunar rock....so drop it, already!

I said they intentionally led them to believe it was a lunar rock.

The whole point is not to STATE it is a genuine moon rock, rather, it is to CONVINCE them it is a genuine moon rock.
That's what happened.

Of course, they could have stated on the plaque "genuine moon rock", but that would also seal the deal for them if it was found to be petrified wood. Why would they take such a stupid risk, if they don't need to? The point is to FOOL them, and not get caught doing it. This makes perfect sense.

The plaque should have described it as 'petrified wood', because that is what it actually is. But if it did, everyone would know it was not a moon rock. Which was the whole point of it, to think it IS a moon rock.

So that's why it has NO description of the object.

There is only one thing it COULD be, and SHOULD be, and WOULD be, anyway - it doesn't need to say it, because they 'know' what it must be, which is a real 'moon rock.

originally posted by: turbonium1

I said they intentionally led them to believe it was a lunar rock.

false the ONLY evidence of this is from Middendorf himself saying so.. how much do you trust the guy?? if he said he knows as absolute fact that the Apollo Moon landing was real would he suddenly become unreliable??

The whole point is not to STATE it is a genuine moon rock, rather, it is to CONVINCE them it is a genuine moon rock.
That's what happened.

again you dont know that.. you dont know what Drees thinks you ONLY know what Middendorf has stated for whatever reason, perhaps to absolve himself of any blame..

Of course, they could have stated on the plaque "genuine moon rock", but that would also seal the deal for them if it was found to be petrified wood. Why would they take such a stupid risk, if they don't need to? The point is to FOOL them, and not get caught doing it. This makes perfect sense.

The plaque should have described it as 'petrified wood', because that is what it actually is. But if it did, everyone would know it was not a moon rock. Which was the whole point of it, to think it IS a moon rock.

ofcourse the should have also stated on the plaque "Willem Drees" since it was "supposed" to be a formal gift to him but ofcourse it doesnt at all..

So that's why it has NO description of the object.

just your opinion that is not even very good, as its missing all the other information that is supposed to be on the gift plaque

There is only one thing it COULD be, and SHOULD be, and WOULD be, anyway - it doesn't need to say it, because they 'know' what it must be, which is a real 'moon rock.

nope, Middendorf says the US state department gave it to him.. and his memory of this is fuzzy at best.. there was NO record of any rocks given out during the good will tour by anyone..

this petrified wood was given by Middendorf to Drees as a personal gift as one friend to another.. or it could even be bribery.. fact is no rocks were ever given out officially during the goodwill tour..