The Conspiracy of Do Nothing

a reply to: TheNewRevolution

Seems to me there's a whole rack of people on ATS that say it's time to do something. And they say it a lot. That's just one website. Isn't even all that difficult to find the site or the people who say it.

Another posted used the line "what's in it for me?" And that's a good question. Convince people your idea is better and maybe you'll get some more support. "Things suck let's change it" okay, and then what? What's your plan? What's your end-game? How and why is it better? Am I trading one tyrant for another?

a reply to: KyoZero

Small battles are good, yes, but as someone else put it one needs to go after the cause and not the symptoms.

These little social and economic issues that we as a nation and world are solved in a true free society. Right now we have it all backwards. To be different in our world you are punished and forced to fight for acceptance of personal beliefs and lifestyles. In a real free society, those who would not accept people's freedoms should be punished instead.

The big battles will defeat the smaller ones by reversing the norm of closed mindedness and unacceptance and allow for individual liberty as a collective society.

a reply to: Boadicea

The solution is freedom, my friend. A Libertarian Republic with an update to the Constitution that prevents corruption and power grabbing entirely.

This cannot be done working within the system so sadly armed revolution will more than likely be necessary. Thus is the cost of freedom as it has been throughout the centuries.

But this is a worldwide issue. I can only speak from a US perspective because I am here but each people must errect their own plans and enact them.

Simple self sustainability will not stop the government from clamping down economically and politically against the people and once again forcing them into submission. They are clearly prepared to violently maintain power if need be, so why should we not be prepared to violently win and defend our freedom?

a reply to: Shamrock6

I have presented plans in the past on ATS and abroad as well as benefits to those plans. It is the lack of response and discussion, arrays of excuses, or the general TL;DR mentality that inspired me to even make this topic.

Don't get me wrong, there is always some moral support but no one is ever like, "yeah let's do this I'm with you". Not to mention ATS's ball busting rules against "recruiting" no matter how vague it is.

No, garnering support is far more difficult than you could imagine, though come Monday I will take your advice and author a new topic on "how will this benefit me?" and we will see where it goes.

originally posted by: TheNewRevolution
a reply to: Boadicea

The solution is freedom, my friend.

Indeed. And there is no freedom without independence... and there is no independence without self-sufficiency.

A Libertarian Republic...

This is where you begin to lose me... We have a Constitutional Republic; I'm not even sure what a "Libertarian Republic" even means. But I'm always a little leery when partisan terms are used...

...with an update to the Constitution that prevents corruption and power grabbing entirely.

Agreed, our congress critters and all in DC have gotten much to big for their britches. How specifically would you suggest we do that? I would begin with an amendment that prohibits Congress from exempting themselves from any and all bills passed. I would then prevent Congress from determining their own pay and benefits; then match their pay to the average citizen's pay... if congress wants a raise, then they better help the American people earn more. After that, I would go after the lobbyists, corporate funding, and every other way the critters amass a fortune while feeding at the public trough. That's just a start of course, but a good start.

This cannot be done working within the system...

It MUST be done within the system. If you have no respect for the system now, why should I trust you to respect the system after armed revolution? I shouldn't. Because I now know that you aren't fighting for the Constitution and I really don't know what you are fighting for... but I also know that might does not make right.

...so sadly armed revolution will more than likely be necessary.

There is still much we can do before armed revolution is necessary.

Thus is the cost of freedom as it has been throughout the centuries.

Maybe. Maybe not. The Velvet Revolution would suggest it is not the only way. We have the benefit of a Constitution in place, and more opportunity to share information and work with others more than any other time in history. It seems to me we can do better. But not if people aren't even willing to try.

Simple self sustainability will not stop the government from clamping down economically and politically against the people and once again forcing them into submission.

Again, I would say history has shown otherwise... including our own history. To paraphrase Reagan, "peace and prosperity through strength." If people did not feel dependent on government for their sustenance... If we did not create an economy in which so many people felt dependent on government... government would never be given so much power.

They are clearly prepared to violently maintain power if need be, so why should we not be prepared to violently win and defend our freedom?

Because two wrongs don't make it right. Because might does not make right. Because if you would rather use violence than law and reason to obtain your goals, then you are no better or different than the tyrants in government. Because we're better than that and we can do better. If the Constitution does not matter now, why will it matter later?

a reply to: Boadicea

The Constitution does not matter now. They are willing and have already ignored it. Yet we are expected to play by its rules and expect them to accept that? It's like playing a board game and we have to roll dice to move but they're allowed to move freely. I can see the clear winner in that game.

The laws have been put in the books now that make it impossible to change government peacefully. From corruption in the polls to hundreds of hand appointed, non-elected officials in charge of the most powerful sections of government, the people are locked out of the system.

Constitutional changes must be made to make the new Constitution impossible to subvert or misconstrue with a basis in the original document. Changes must be rewarded to take part in politics so that attention is paid to what is going on and politicians are held responsible.

These things are all very possible. I do believe and follow tge Constitution much more than the government does, but I am not blind to see it has many flaws.

As far as dependence on government, so long as the government freely offers the help and controls the news media, with the exception of a small minority, people are not going to change.

Libertarian = individual freedom, which means an expanded bill of rights and more power to the individual. No reason to be leary.

As for what would make me follow a system after armed revolution? The fact that if I'm alive I just risked everything to make it happen.

originally posted by: Boadicea
This is where you begin to lose me... We have a Constitutional Republic; I'm not even sure what a "Libertarian Republic" even means.

It sounds like a "republic" where only people the OP approves of get the power!

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

All valid points. Perhaps I came off harsher than I intended.

My point was simply that there's always a bunch of talk about "it's time" but nobody ever wants to be the first one out of the gate. Or, looking at history, very rarely do they want to be first out of the gate. But people will talk all day long about how willing they are if only x, y, and z would happen.

The American Revolution wasn't started by one dude. It was a group of dudes who had an idea and not much idea how well their idea was going to turn out. They didn't wait till the King said "hey it's cool" to do their thing. They worked to build support for their cause, but they didn't wait till it was a done deal to light the fire.

In this day and age, I would think it would be significantly easier to find a group of like minded dudes to do...whatever.

B.S. always many have been first out of the gate.

The fact is most people on the planet are so badly damaged and utterly brainwashed they cannot see a possible different way of life much less DARE to think something better.

You are a classic example, one who is repeating the same thing as the OP, yet actually believing you are offering up something else.

originally posted by: TheNewRevolution
a reply to: Shamrock6

Seeing the years I've put into finding those like minded people, they are extremely difficult to find. Lots of people are just talk and those who aren't either lack the dedication or seek control.

Yes, going into a losing battle is an excuse for not acting. The Art of War would call it a very good excuse. As long as some support would stand it would no longer be an excuse. That support is sorely lacking.

You see, the masses will NEVER be ready, or of mind enough to actually oust the scums that ruin this world for thousands of years.

The entire game was rigged long ago, and is completely and entirely rigged, in ways beyond most beings ability to see.

It will take something entirely different, to rid these parasites from the hosts.

This is so much more complicated than just Earth, so much is riding upon the maintaining of control, this is why it will NEVER relax, and NEVER lose to humans.

It is like asking a common housefly to take down an elephant, it has absolutely no way of doing it.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Really? So where are they then? Yea, somebody always "goes first." Eventually. Thanks for pointing that out. Sitting at a traffic light clues me in that somebody goes first eventually on a daily basis.

Then again, you seem to think I'm somehow repeating what the OP says when I'm not, so I don't really expect an answer

Any "revolt" against the status quo must begin at the local level. When people see direct impact of misdeeds by the elected authority, they will react. But it takes doing a whole mess of research to find the misdeeds, document them and bring them to the public. Most folks won't pay the slightest attention to their local elections until they are shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the elected officials have misused/abused their office.
Even discovering the documentation isn't enough. You must have someone articulate the problem and offer up one or more solutions. That person must be able to speak coherently in public and have a very thick skin. Simply holding a public meeting to discuss the issue without "the authorities" present will bring headlines saying: "Concerned citizens group seeks to overthrow county government."
It isn't an easy or quick job to change things in government. But it can be done and it can be done with a surprisingly small group of people. The population of our county was about 35k when about 60 of us got together and decided that we'd had all we could stand. It took a few years of hard work but we did manage to get honest people elected to office.

originally posted by: TheNewRevolution
a reply to: Boadicea

The Constitution does not matter now.

And that says it all. I will gladly fight for the Constitution, for the rule of law, for our organic law. But you've already thrown it out the window. So what do you want me to fight for???

Changes must be rewarded to take part in politics so that attention is paid to what is going on and politicians are held responsible.

I made a suggested a few specific ways to rein in our congress critters; you did not comment on my suggestions, nor did you make any suggestions of your own. Again, how can I -- in good conscience -- join your armed revolution when I do not know what I'll be fighting for? On the other hand, let's say I started my own movement -- the "Congress Critters Crap Cleaning Contract" -- and put all candidates on notice that if they do not pledge to make these changes, we will not vote for them. Would you be part of that? Or is nothing less than armed revolution acceptable to you?

These things are all very possible. I do believe and follow tge Constitution much more than the government does, but I am not blind to see it has many flaws.

Flaws? Or simply limited? The foundation of the Constitution is sound. As with anything and everything, there is always room for growth and improvement. As we learn and know better, we can do better.

As far as dependence on government, so long as the government freely offers the help and controls the news media, with the exception of a small minority, people are not going to change.

People do what they can and must. Give the people better options and greater opportunity, and people will do better and greater things -- both for themselves and for society.

Libertarian = individual freedom, which means an expanded bill of rights and more power to the individual. No reason to be leary.

I'm always leery when one labels themselves in partisan terms. Libertarian means different things to different people. I already know you are not a Non-Aggression Principle type Libertarian. Are you a big "L" or little "l" libertarian? Minarchist or anarchist? Non-interventionist or isolationist? "Libertarian" sounds good, but is vague and subject to interpretation. I still don't know what you want me to fight for.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm simply trying to make an important point: It's not enough to know what we must fight against, we must also know what we are fighting for.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Boadicea
This is where you begin to lose me... We have a Constitutional Republic; I'm not even sure what a "Libertarian Republic" even means.

It sounds like a "republic" where only people the OP approves of get the power!

Exactly! That may not be the OP's intention, but without more, how can we know?

because animals do not have a chance against dogs and shepherds, and does not even know that there is still meat-packing plant

originally posted by: diggindirt
Any "revolt" against the status quo must begin at the local level. When people see direct impact of misdeeds by the elected authority, they will react. But it takes doing a whole mess of research to find the misdeeds, document them and bring them to the public. Most folks won't pay the slightest attention to their local elections until they are shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the elected officials have misused/abused their office.
Even discovering the documentation isn't enough. You must have someone articulate the problem and offer up one or more solutions. That person must be able to speak coherently in public and have a very thick skin. Simply holding a public meeting to discuss the issue without "the authorities" present will bring headlines saying: "Concerned citizens group seeks to overthrow county government."
It isn't an easy or quick job to change things in government. But it can be done and it can be done with a surprisingly small group of people. The population of our county was about 35k when about 60 of us got together and decided that we'd had all we could stand. It took a few years of hard work but we did manage to get honest people elected to office.

That is why change has to start with the one in the mirror.

If you can't win that battle, well........

originally posted by: TheNewRevolution
I find it utterly amazing the reactions of the public of conspiracy theories. Us so called "crackpot, nutjob conspiracy theorists" will believe just about anything that gets thrown at us. It isn't that we are more susceptible to lies, rather most times it is because we are smarter than the rest, more observant at the very least. We are guided by a mistrust, usually of those in power, simply because we have seen and learned what most people don't even bother to recognize in the world. People commonly refer to it as the "rabbit hole", because once you start going down the path of truth, there is no going back. You see the world for what it is, a facade for the most part, and you begin to question everything, even the things that don't really need to be questioned.

But even it our "nutjob" world, there have been events that there is so much evidence to support that it no longer becomes a conspiracy "theory". The events and these labels are no longer just ideas, they are provable facts in some way or another, dirty little secrets that the public doesn't want to touch and sully their ignorant minds, and those who perpetrated the acts can laugh and continue to call us crackpots all the while.

So while we fight in a mudpit of our own creations, bickering over who is right or what is real or imaginary, there are "theories" that have so much following, so much weight and believability that it gets lost in the shuffle of further bickering.

I'm talking about the murders and assassinations, the false flags, the poisoning of people, the subliminal brainwashing, the corporatocracy of the planet, the secrets and the lies, the control of the bankers, the usurpation of rights, the destruction of economies, the unwanted wars and the acts the lead to them, the shadow governments, the real men behind the curtain, and so much more.

And all of these "theories" have so much proof and years of investigation behind them that they are not theories, they are truths. They are facts. We may be off on a few of the targets but for the most part - we got it. We nailed the bullseye on some of the biggest injustices the world has ever witnessed and we know in our hearts how terrible, corrupt, murderous, greedy, warmongering, power hungry, and genocidal these people are that perpetrate these things and what do we do?

We continue to allow them to lead our societies. Worldwide, we allow the men and women that we KNOW to be living incarnations of demon spawn to run roughshot with our lives, to create the laws that dictate us, to tell us the truths that they want us to hear, to control the value of our currencies, and to incarcerate and kill us if we refuse to give up absolute and total control of them.

This is how we live and for the life of me I cannot understand it. Why, if so many people in our "group" of conspiracy minded people know these things then why, heavens WHY have we not yet revolted against those in power and put and end to it? Why do we continue to just bicker amongst ourselves and wait patiently for the next atrocity to come that we can continue to fight about?

Am I the only person who, when realizing that the mere idea of a government being involved in the slaying of over 3,000 of its own people, has the sudden and unyielding urge to END that government?

Am I the only person who, when realizing that people are being fed poison, feels that the people doing the poisoning need to die?

Am I the only person who, when realizing that there are powerful individuals brainwashing and controlling the populace by nefarious means and control via wealth and ancient bloodlines, feels that that power needs to be destroyed?

Am I the only one who, when realizing I know these things, feels an obligation to stop these things from happening to humanity even if it costs me my life?

Please tell me I'm not the only one. SHOW ME I'm not the only one. When will people stand and say NO MORE?

Why is everyone so unmoved to do something?



To me, just talking about the issue is not enough. Just shouting that there is a problem is not enough. Just shrugging off the problem and hoping someone else takes care of it, is not enough.

This world is going to burn and its inhabitants are going to suffer: men, women, children, nature, all of it; and the people who could and should be doing something about it - do nothing.

Spot on. But our fate is sealed imo. All we can do is wait, watch, & hope for a greater purpose in death.