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Not really. Intolerance is intolerance, regardless of the reasons. Would you agree with white people born today having to be held accountable for slavery?
Why should I do any of that? The bible is the bible. I'm supposed to read it and understand it myself. I shouldn't need supplemental lessons from other learned scholars on how to read it.
Isn't the whole point that the Bible should be as accessible as possible so that as many people as possible are exposed to the truth?
Ok. Let's humor you. How about posting some links then?
In the end, what's the difference? They still aren't allowed to be with god for whatever reason.
Because it needs to be done.
But there is a broad understanding of Christian doctrine that most Christians agree on.
And one of those things is that salvation has nothing to do with the sins you commit and that worthiness doesn't get you into heaven.
originally posted by: Klassified
originally posted by: StalkerSolent
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: StalkerSolent
Yeah, but -- see? They see themselves as trash, who can't help but screw up, and project that same esteem onto their children....they claim they don't have it together, but AT LEAST they are going to be saved.......
where all the other [even worse] people are going to BURN IN HELL.
Um...you don't understand Christian doctrine.
You're probably going to come back shortly and tell me that you totally do, but you don't. Sorry
I think what she is referring to is, verses like Isaiah 64 and Romans 3, and other such verses in the old and new testament. By the biblical God's "standards", humans are a rancid bunch, and their hearts are dark and irredeemable. Unless of course, they become Christians.
No?
One is worthy of "heaven" when they do whatever their particular sect of Christ-idolators dictates (such as):
Be baptized at birth
Be Born-Again as an adult
Say fifteen 'Hail Mary Full of Grace's, and wear hair shirt
Speak in tongues
Convert unsuspecting innocents to the dogma
Burn witches
Stone adulteresses
Eat shellfish
Pick flowers or mend pants on the Sabbath (or feed the dog or pull weeds)
etc
and
so on
and some more.....
originally posted by: StalkerSolent
originally posted by: Klassified
originally posted by: StalkerSolent
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: StalkerSolent
Yeah, but -- see? They see themselves as trash, who can't help but screw up, and project that same esteem onto their children....they claim they don't have it together, but AT LEAST they are going to be saved.......
where all the other [even worse] people are going to BURN IN HELL.
Um...you don't understand Christian doctrine.
You're probably going to come back shortly and tell me that you totally do, but you don't. Sorry
I think what she is referring to is, verses like Isaiah 64 and Romans 3, and other such verses in the old and new testament. By the biblical God's "standards", humans are a rancid bunch, and their hearts are dark and irredeemable. Unless of course, they become Christians.
The part that's throwing me is the idea that the people that go to hell are "less worthy."
The Bible says nobody is worthy.
But hey, what do I know?
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
And you are doing SUCH a great job clearing that up for me.
Between you and randy, it is pretty funny how mad the uber-religious get when shown the flaws in their text. Like you haven't even ATTEMPTED to refute any of my arguments and instead jump straight to derisive dismissal. It's pretty telling that I must have hit pretty close to home there.
originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: TarzanBeta
You call it obedience and faith. I call it bigotry, war and genocide by a group that were intent on conquering anyone who believed differently from them, and/or rejected their tyrannical "god". You talk about love, but the blood, and the body count in the old testament doesn't say much about the Hebrew god's love for anyone. As for the new testament. Not much changed. Conquer the world for God, and those who reject him will be murdered in the "tribulation" by the billions when god pours out his wrath on the planet. Then they will be forever condemned after they die.
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Though I think it is funny that you are the second Christian to get offended
Oh but I'm not offended homeboy. I'm disgusted.
Why? Because I'm doing to your bible what you guys try to do to Evolution all the time? Pick it apart. Except I'M actually making an attempt to use the source material to argue my point instead of straw mans.
originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
First century Christians, both converted former Jews and Pagans that had owned slaves were suppose to free them, basically apply the golden rule. Read the book of Philemon, the whole letter is basically Paul asking him to free Onesimus who had become a Christian too.
But what they were suppose to do, and what they actually did is a different story, that's why Christians in North America that owned slaves before the civil war were lacking in their proper application of what the bible teaches in regards to how to treat our fellowman. But it would have been an inherited cultural thing, the parents would be teaching the kids that it was ok, with flawed reasoning that God's servants in the past owned slaves so we can too.
Here is a question let's say you were a wealthy Roman that freed a dozen slaves on conversion to Christianity but the slaves didn't want to go ? Because they were treated well and were scared they might be homeless and without food once freed. Then what ? Since turning people onto the street with nothing wouldn't have been Christian either.
Pay them for their services and give them room and board ?
originally posted by: artistpoet
Why would a non Christian deliberately provoke Christians ... what is to be gained and who does it benefit
So much for tolerance and live and let live