Misunderstood Sleep Paralysis And Astral Projection

Repeat post

a reply to: Woodcarver

Just curious. Have you ever astral-projected before? It's something you can easily experience for yourself.

originally posted by: In4ormant

originally posted by: donktheclown

Denying ignorance means proving your claims when asked too.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm with you..... Now, if you wouldn't mind, prove there is no astral plane. I know for fact that there is one because I've been there a couple times now. I can't prove it, but then again I can't prove that air exists either.

You want him to prove a negative?

Yea. He wants me to prove a negative.

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: Woodcarver

Just curious. Have you ever astral-projected before? It's something you can easily experience for yourself.

If by astral project, you mean close my eyes and pretend that i am flying through space, yes. I'm doing it right now.

If anyone here wants to prove they can astral project, i am very willing to set up a reward for an accurate reading. We can set up some fair parameters for what constitutes as accurate. Fair warning, they will be more strict than michael persingers vague correlations.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I don't think anyone gives a fk if anyone believes them. It's proof enough to them, and that's all that matters.

Go pick on the 'psychics' who prey on vulnerable people to make money. Ask them to prove it.

I can almost astral project at will. I have had over 300 OBE's most self induced some triggered through sleep paralysis. The reason it is so hard to prove is because your in another dimension that our technology currently can't pick up. This dimension is completely influenced by the projectors mind.

I didn't believe it was possible when i first read about it. But instead of ignorantly dismissing other peoples claims, I tried it myself and had great results.

And yes at first I thought i was just playing mind tricks, consciously entering the dream state by intention and focus. Which in my opinion is still a very impressive trick.

After more than 300 astral projections i have no doubt in my mind that it is real.

Also, I'm not sure where to even look up the studies, but Robert Monroe and some other pioneers of astral projection have scientifically proven that it is real. The studies don't make it mainstream because there is a war against spirituality and consciousness and the powers that be want you as ignorant as possible. That last thing they want is for people to use their mind to its full potential.

a reply to: booyakasha

You do understand that saying you enter an altered state of mind and then relying on that same mind to accurately interpret what you are experiencing is seriously flawed. You then proclaim it to be real. How does that rational differ from me hallucinating on a drug and then believing/proclaiming it to be real other than method you used to get to the altered state?

a reply to: Woodcarver

If by astral project, you mean close my eyes and pretend that i am flying through space, yes. I'm doing it right now.

No....you're not.

So you haven't astral projected. So what basis do you use to debate the subject? Your faith in what others say and believe? If so, why side with that when you can use your own intelligence to discern if the experience is valid or not, especially when it is reasonably easy to trigger?

Just sounds like an unnecessary cop out to me, because here you have so many people speaking from direct experience, and yet you haven't respected the topic enough to try and experience it for yourself. Why should anyone cater to that kind of laziness and try to prove anything to someone like that?

Waiting around for people to prove to you, something which you can prove to yourself and having the nerve to dismiss their claims and replace it with your utterly silly notion of astral projection is laughably absurd. You have no real excuse for operating in the blind like this, when in a few weeks and a little work, you can DIRECTLY know and experience what all this is about and speak with some semblance of authority on the matter.

So my next question, since you have absolutely no clue what astral projection is, let alone the experience of one. Why don't you try? What's so appealing about remaining ignorant of it? Especially something so within reach.

a reply to: In4ormant

You want him to prove a negative?

On a side note, one can prove a negative. But if they don't furnish the "universe of discourse" (logical jargon), or in other words, where the astral plane they visit is, then they haven't really visited anything, and the argument can be discarded as being self-defeating.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: In4ormant

You want him to prove a negative?

On a side note, one can prove a negative. But if they don't furnish the "universe of discourse" (logical jargon), or in other words, where the astral plane they visit is, then they haven't really visited anything, and the argument can be discarded as being self-defeating.

I won't get into the Absence of Evidence argument with you. little late in the day to go down that rabbit hole. I don't deny that people are experiencing things, I question their ability to reconcile its reality while in an altered state.

a reply to: In4ormant

I question their ability to reconcile its reality while in an altered state.

That's quite a demand. Do you have the ability to reconcile your reality with your current state?

a reply to: In4ormant

I won't get into the Absence of Evidence argument with you. little late in the day to go down that rabbit hole. I don't deny that people are experiencing things, I question their ability to reconcile its reality while in an altered state.

Yes it was just a side point, since we're concerned with truth here. Otherwise I agree with you.

If we were to examine someone while they were visiting an astral plane, we'd find that they are still sleeping soundly, not visiting anything and not going anywhere. If they do not admit this aspect of these states of affairs, and assert that they are not laying in bed, but visiting some other realm, they must contradict themselves to do so. It's painfully obvious this astral plane is an imaginary place.

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: In4ormant

I question their ability to reconcile its reality while in an altered state.

That's quite a demand. Do you have the ability to reconcile your reality with your current state?

Your sharing it with me ATM. Can he say the same of his?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: In4ormant

I won't get into the Absence of Evidence argument with you. little late in the day to go down that rabbit hole. I don't deny that people are experiencing things, I question their ability to reconcile its reality while in an altered state.

Yes it was just a side point, since we're concerned with truth here. Otherwise I agree with you.

If we were to examine someone while they were visiting an astral plane, we'd find that they are still sleeping soundly, not visiting anything and not going anywhere. If they do not admit this aspect of these states of affairs, and assert that they are not laying in bed, but visiting some other realm, they must contradict themselves to do so. It's painfully obvious this astral plane is an imaginary place.

Exactly. You know how they could prove its real. Two of these OOBE folks need to exchange information while visiting this place with their bodies in a lab, under watch, 1000 miles apart. Any takers?

The first time I left my body I remember dreaming that I was talking with another soul. Apparently I had access to more information then than what I have while in my body. Since it was natural to me to suggest to the one I was talking to that I should leave my body, I said it like it was a normal thing for me to do. And then BAM, it was no longer a dream... I was totally conscious while everything went from grey to pitch black and it felt like I was going fast through a tunnel, it felt like a roller coaster ride kinda. And then I was just floating around in a black void being scared and wondering if I did just die now. That fear of dying made me fight whatever this was! I concentrated as hard as can be done on getting back to my body and after a while I woke up in it paralyzed in my bed, trying to scream for help just resulted in low mumbling. But nah, I was not to get out of the paralysis yet... The damn thing happened again! Everything went black again and I lost my connection to my body while still being conscious, yet again I was able to fight it to find myself back in the body still paralyzed. But this time I was able to get the f#ck out of my bed!

After this experience I had many many out of body experiences and experiences with paralysis for a whole year. Still my fear held me back a lot, I was not able to explore or experience as much as I wanted to do. And basically I made my body stop having them because I got tired of it happening all the time I was supposed to sleep.

These days it just happens very seldom. But a cool thing did happen not long time ago, something new for me. I woke up half outside my body and could see the light of my soul shine up the walls around me in faint blue buzzing light! I could also see my spiritual arms and move them and part of my spiritual body which was dragged upward toward the roof. There was a black cloud there pulling me in, when I noticed that I was like, hey, this is a bit too creepy... So I stopped the experience there.

But whatever, people believe what they want to believe. I am not here to prove these experiences.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: In4ormant

I won't get into the Absence of Evidence argument with you. little late in the day to go down that rabbit hole. I don't deny that people are experiencing things, I question their ability to reconcile its reality while in an altered state.

Yes it was just a side point, since we're concerned with truth here. Otherwise I agree with you.

If we were to examine someone while they were visiting an astral plane, we'd find that they are still sleeping soundly, not visiting anything and not going anywhere. If they do not admit this aspect of these states of affairs, and assert that they are not laying in bed, but visiting some other realm, they must contradict themselves to do so. It's painfully obvious this astral plane is an imaginary place.

You think the fact that your physical body would be laying in bed 'obviously' disproves astral projection? That's equivalent to saying astral projection disproves astral projection, which is circular and has the conclusion built into the premise...astral projection is by definition traveling outside of your physical body, thus your physical body would of course be lying there, as before.

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: In4ormant

I won't get into the Absence of Evidence argument with you. little late in the day to go down that rabbit hole. I don't deny that people are experiencing things, I question their ability to reconcile its reality while in an altered state.

Yes it was just a side point, since we're concerned with truth here. Otherwise I agree with you.

If we were to examine someone while they were visiting an astral plane, we'd find that they are still sleeping soundly, not visiting anything and not going anywhere. If they do not admit this aspect of these states of affairs, and assert that they are not laying in bed, but visiting some other realm, they must contradict themselves to do so. It's painfully obvious this astral plane is an imaginary place.

You think the fact that your physical body would be laying in bed 'obviously' disproves astral projection? That's equivalent to saying astral projection disproves astral projection, which is circular and has the conclusion built into the premise...astral projection is by definition traveling outside of your physical body, thus your physical body would of course be lying there, as before.

Then take me up on the test I suggested.

a reply to: TheJourney

You think the fact that your physical body would be laying in bed 'obviously' disproves astral projection? That's equivalent to saying astral projection disproves astral projection, which is circular and has the conclusion built into the premise...astral projection is by definition traveling outside of your physical body, thus your physical body would of course be lying there, as before.

You might be right if this argument wasn't founded on the circular assumption that you are something other than your body.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If we were to examine someone while they were visiting an astral plane, we'd find that they are still sleeping soundly, not visiting anything and not going anywhere. If they do not admit this aspect of these states of affairs, and assert that they are not laying in bed, but visiting some other realm, they must contradict themselves to do so. It's painfully obvious this astral plane is an imaginary place.

If someone says you're body is asleep. That speaks all about yours and says nothing about you.

a reply to: TheJourney

I agree but for me it is more a question of projected consciousness than astral projection, as for astral projection I have been outside my body and had to fight to get back into it each time gasping for breath, I have had semi sleep paralysis but could move though very slowly as though I was stronger than whatever was holding me and would break it's grip fairly quickly.

Astral projection though I do not have experience is more similar to the techniques of man shamen who travelles the spirit world with there mind's.

I have a belief that we are not simply this body and the body is a quantum structure but though we are undoubtledy connected I think parrelal reality formation play's a very strong part in the matter.

Now this is just conjecture and I would not and have never taken any substance as I think it both dangerous and plain stupid but if you bare with me.

Often shamen would take concoction's of herb's which in a rough definition would cause some part's of there brain to go into overdrive while suppressing other's and for me this put's the brain out of phase with the spiritual mind causing overlapping sense's that then may force the mind to occupy it's spiritual self, this other shadow or soul body is on a different dimensional level and maybe so has senses that are not relative to the physical realm.

Of course if this is the case other factor's could also cause slight phasing that may make the bond between the body and the soul or spirit body slightly less concret such as interferance not only from the physical but also the astral or spirit realm'(s) but I think it is eminantly dangerous to play around with it and it can have a mind altering and even mental state damaging effect to dabble in these thing's or to attempt to force them on soul's that are not ready.

For those to whom it is natural though, even if they can not see this realm clearly but only catch glimpses then I see no problem as it may be a part of there own personal spiritual growth.