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Misunderstood Sleep Paralysis And Astral Projection

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posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 04:37 PM
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So after reading/thumbing through on a number of websites I'm more confused than I began. There are so many varying interpretations, methods and explanations that there is no coherent starting point. This Astral plane seems to be unique to each person and not a shared common place. So I'm left with an undefined place that... varies with as much degree as the number of participants and has as many variations built in to the methods at arriving to it. Sorry guys, its a dream as far as I'm concerned. It might be an extremely vivid and coherent one but a dream nonetheless.




posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: In4ormant
So after reading/thumbing through on a number of websites I'm more confused than I began. There are so many varying interpretations, methods and explanations that there is no coherent starting point. This Astral plane seems to be unique to each person and not a shared common place. So I'm left with an undefined place that... varies with as much degree as the number of participants and has as many variations built in to the methods at arriving to it. Sorry guys, its a dream as far as I'm concerned. It might be an extremely vivid and coherent one but a dream nonetheless.


So in other words, you're sticking with your initial assumption and are not going to try to learn yourself, as you have been saying you want to do?
edit on 23-4-2015 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 04:49 PM
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You want him to prove a negative?
a reply to: In4ormant

Why would you assign the word "negative" to the astral plane?



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 04:51 PM
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originally posted by: In4ormant
So after reading/thumbing through on a number of websites I'm more confused than I began. There are so many varying interpretations, methods and explanations that there is no coherent starting point. This Astral plane seems to be unique to each person and not a shared common place. So I'm left with an undefined place that... varies with as much degree as the number of participants and has as many variations built in to the methods at arriving to it. Sorry guys, its a dream as far as I'm concerned. It might be an extremely vivid and coherent one but a dream nonetheless.


For the record, I don't believe everything I read about astral projection at all. I think it is highly probable that a decent amount of the people who think they have astral projected, are actually experiencing hypnagogia or are dreaming...i never was completely positive it was a real thing at all, until I, as someone extremely experienced with hypnagogia and dreams, did it myself, and knew I actually left my body, and it wasn't hypnagogia or a dream. Thus I can conclude some others have really done it, and have more experience than me. I still remain somewhat skeptical of individual claims, though. I look for specifics, including ones that I am familiar with. I don't believe it is as common as some claim...as I said, I do think hypnagogia and dreams are sometimes mistook for astral projection...but some of it is real. The only way to know anything about it really is to do it yourself.
edit on 23-4-2015 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: donktheclown



You want him to prove a negative?
a reply to: In4ormant

Why would you assign the word "negative" to the astral plane?



You obviously didn't read the post before deciding to jump in. Reread it again slowly.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: TheJourney

I thought I was pretty clear on the convoluted nature of the information out there and its many alleged starting points. I don't have the time to sift through, nor try every method described as they are numerous and with very little agreement on what actually works. For the record, I'm actually glad you have the experiences you do and that they make you happy. Not enough of that going around in the world. I just don't have the time to chase this thing after reading so many varying accounts and methods. A more concentrated community with more agreement amongst themselves would go far to dispel the dream explanation that all facts point to.
edit on 23-4-2015 by In4ormant because: gizmo



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 07:57 PM
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a reply to: TheJourney

I am a student of the esoteric and have been studying Pythagorean Hylozoics for the past few years. I have reached a fairly substantial understanding of the nature of reality through these studies. Everything I have come to understand is in complete accord with the standard physics model of science and in a sense unifies with what we understand about quantum physics. Having said that the entire concept of a multi dimensional existence is and will remain subjective for some time yet.

The various planes of existence have become euphemistically referred to as the astral planes, although the term does not really touch on the nature or metaphysical science of what it is referring to.

I will try to provide a simple understanding for those readers who do not understand our multi-dimensional reality.

Matter, the stuff the entire universe is composed from, is much finer than science has or will be able to detect, and is described in my studies as conscious matter in motion, or energy.

All matter has consciousness to some degree, dormant, passive or active. The human mind is just one speck of matter with consciousness that has evolved through millions of years of rebirth through all the natural kingdoms of minerals animals and humans. The fact that you are reading this is a testimony to the billions of existences you have experienced to achieve the state of human consciousness. On the spectrum of consciousness expansion we are still children.

The physical world according to hylozoics is real(for whatever that means) and not illusiory as many eastern mystics believe, and is the result of the fine particles of matter, which could be compared to strings, as in string theory, but are referred to in the ancient texts as monads. Monads are the smallest undevisable particles of matter which are energised by what the greeks termed Dynamis. In modern terms we would refer to it as zero point energy.

Matter percolates through seven major transitions or dimensions of existence, each divided by a further seven sub-dimensions, 49 in all.

Our physical existence is on level 49, and is the furthest and densest level that monads can travel out from the source. It is here that this energy becomes so dense and confined, with matter comprising of monads of all the other dimensions, that movement is slow, at it’s least energetic, and is why it has become what we understand to be physical matter.

As I mentioned previously all matter has consciousness to some degree and all living organisms that exist on earth are extremely advanced in terms of consciousness. To even exist in this physical dimension is a testimony to that. There are involutionary monads, those arriving all the time and evolutionary monads, those that are experiencing multiple life times of consciousness expansion to eventually leave the physical world.

When our journey through the human kingdom is complete, we, for want of a better word, metamorphosise into a different kind of being. A being that no longer requires a physical shell to exist, and in fact, never has to be reborn into the physical world. The degree of organisation beyond the physical world is beyond description, and is the result of evolution over trillions of years. We are all part of this process and are assisted without our knowledge or understanding. Our blindness to reality is a necessary part of this process as we develop our unique individuality.

Our consciousness exists in the dimensions 49, 48, and 47 at all times, whilst on the physical plane. Consciousness can be divided into physical, emotional, mental and causal states or planes. When we become emotional, our consciousness is subjectively in another plane of existence, as it is also when we are deep in thought, our consciousness is present in the mental plane of existence. It is these four planes which we refer to as the astral.

When we die we lose our objective awareness of the physical plane and gain objective awareness on the emotional plane or Maya as some call it. When we die on the emotional plane our consciousness becomes focused on the mental plane (some would call this place heaven). For most people the next time they become aware after a long sleep is rebirth into a physical body. Some people through the evolution of their consciousness will eventually awaken in the causal plane of existence, as will we all eventually, which will be the first indication that we will soon leave the cycle of rebirth in the physical world with perhaps only a further twenty or thirty physical lives to complete.

Each of these planes (we always exist in), have a different kind of reality to the physical world, and yet, when we gain objective consciousness there, we see it and experience it as very real, which of course it is.

It contains as many life forms as we witness in the physical world, but these life forms, some involutionary elementals some evolutionary beings, have attained all spectrums of conscious development. They include the Devas, highly intelligent life forms that have followed a parallel evolutionary path to humanity that does not require them to make their progress through the physical world.

When we astral travel we do not actually go anywhere that we don’t already exist. We simply gain objective awareness on those more subtle planes of reality. When we die we exist on each of those planes for a period of time as we pass through the emotional plane, onto the mental plane, and if we have evolved enough we gain objective awareness in the causal world. It is the causal world where our soul permanently resides. It is here that the collective memory of all our many lives are recorded. As wonderful as the causal dimensions sounds, it is in fact just the start of an incredible journey that the ancients texts describe in some detail.

This knowledge has been passed down through secret societies for thousand of years and at a fundamental level lies at the heart of most religions although is described in allegory and metaphor. Most religions have hidden the eternal nature of our soul for whatever reason. It is an understanding I have completely reconciled my beliefs to.




edit on 23-4-2015 by kennyb72 because: punctuation



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: kennyb72

See what I mean

Another person comes along to muddy the water even further.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 08:34 PM
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a reply to: In4ormant



See what I mean
Another person comes along to muddy the water even further.

For the first time in your life, you have just heard the clearest description of the reality of life ever presented to you.

Just because you don't understand it does not make it untrue. I will not argue this knowledge with anyone who disbelieves it. I just want you to understand that the short description I have presented to you is ancient knowledge, not new age, not religion, not scientifically understood, it is reality, and one day you WILL understand.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: kennyb72

The clearest description is not the way I would describe your post



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: In4ormant



The clearest description is not the way I would describe your post

Perhaps if you read it and not scanned it, it would be clearer to you.

Comprehension in reading is a skill my friend.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: kennyb72

And sarcasm is an art you have not been gifted with. Maybe you can search for a teacher in your nether realm visits.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: kennyb72


Interesting post. I like the ideas presented. It sounds, to me, a lot like what I read in my studies of theosophy.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 09:25 PM
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a reply to: TheJourney

Blavatsky was a causal self, and her knowledge very deep.

Hylozoics has come through a different channel and is fundamentally the same thing but with different terminology.

ETA: Have you read Leadbeater? his journeys are fascinating.


edit on 23-4-2015 by kennyb72 because: hate predictive text



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: In4ormant



And sarcasm is an art you have not been gifted with. Maybe you can search for a teacher in your nether realm visits

My apologies, I visited this thread earlier and anticipated how it could devolve into a skeptics bash. I really don't want to go there. I am my own greatest skeptic and I have settle my disbelief through a growing causal awareness over the course of a few years.

This entire subject is not a question that science can answer, but is answered through our own intuition. It is very difficult to get that concept across to a pragmatic mind. I don't mind talking to inquisitive people, but I am through with closed minds that believe that science has all the answers.

Again, I am sorry if I came across as sarcastic.



posted on Apr, 24 2015 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: mysterioustranger




It was one who taught me once about posting controversial information on the reality or astral travel, where it can be picked apart, disseminated, deconstructed, misunderstood and rebuked as fake or untrue. That achieves no real helpful purpose.



From personal experience; astral projection is very much part of my reality. It is real as drinking water or typing this post out atm. I will state this: Those who have pierced the veil usually come back with the same story. Here is something to note: there are many different projections of mind - like telling a well known fairy tale such as Little Red Riding Hood, yet, each vision remains unique in the child's mind with minute details despite the structure or plot of the story remaining unchanged.



it can be picked apart, disseminated, deconstructed, misunderstood and rebuked as fake or untrue.


Those who have shared this or any so called mystical experience will be able to discern what is new age fantasy and what is real. Therefore, they can explain how they visualize the story of Little Red Riding Hood to others that may be totally different in how another person may imagine it. Yet, they both agree on the story outline despite differing visions.

The OP is a perfect example: S/he is speaking and giving instructions on how to induce lucid dreaming and mistakenly labelling it Astral Projection. Then another member (who I responded to) begins misconstruing the OP which was already a distortion from the get go and starts referencing remote viewing labelling it Astral Projection as well...

These are the parts that need to be picked apart, disseminated and corrected. Most of the stuff floating around in the new age movement needs to be rebuked. The new age movement has polluted the world with exaggerated mystical experiences that offer nothing to the individual but a distraction from their day to day lives. The irony is there is much that can actually be applied. The problem for most is the real magic in this world is subtle, so if it does not offer kundalini awakening, light beings, and spinning chakras, and all that other stuff that has made its way into consensus reality; it gets ignored.

These people in the new age and spiritual movement are very religious with their beliefs...so much so, they actually feel confident regurgitating shared mystical insight as their own.

Everybody knows the Eiffel Tower is in Paris, describing it alone is no proof that you actually went there. Those who actually been to Paris will talk about the cobbled stone side streets and all its charm. Others who have been there will understand intimately where those side streets are and recall certain details despite each person having a unique experience on those streets...



Those of us who have the ability need no convincing of any one, nor open general discussions on the hows and whys and if's, and already understand the deeper nature of being a "sensitive"...of which is a small part.


I agree.

I can spot the real ones. It is the fake ones I like to have fun with.



It is important...even necessary...to help all those who ask...its part of the deal. It would take to long to explain nor will I here...but I will help where and when anyone I can...answer or explain any question or process about it asked of me.


You seem like a really sweet person. I concur, it is part of the deal. I will post openly here tho. I have participated in similar metaphysical forums across the net. Certain insight when presented can make many new agers "go around" those who have seen those side streets. You know this.

Astral projection is both a physical and non-physical experience, but I would not label it "spiritual, etc". From what has been "shown to me," for it to be considered "spiritual" (I use that word very lightly just to get my thought across) would be to attain insight that helps one along their path (such as how astral projection actually takes place). Other than that, it is simply sight seeing.

I find it interesting that so many can speak about the experience but can never explain how it takes place. What I mean by that is this: They can explain the concept but cannot explain the physiological function taking place. Usually, from my travels and experiences of interacting with others who share the same experience as astral projection, we were shown how it all takes place after a few experiences from a metaphysical perspective.



Those of us who have the ability need no convincing of any one


"Truth is like a lion. It will defend itself"





edit on 24-4-2015 by Involutionist because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2015 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: kennyb72



The various planes of existence have become euphemistically referred to as the astral planes, although the term does not really touch on the nature or metaphysical science of what it is referring to.


True. All is mind.



When we astral travel we do not actually go anywhere that we don’t already exist. We simply gain objective awareness on those more subtle planes of reality.


All is mind. True.



Our consciousness exists in the dimensions 49, 48, and 47 at all times, whilst on the physical plane. Consciousness can be divided into physical, emotional, mental and causal states or planes. When we become emotional, our consciousness is subjectively in another plane of existence, as it is also when we are deep in thought, our consciousness is present in the mental plane of existence. It is these four planes which we refer to as the astral.



That is aura field you are referring to. Astral is different. I get where you are going with that above tho. Book reading leads to abstracted concepts. Not picking on you. I like what you had to share. Careful not get sucked into all the b.s info.

Take in the insight with a contemplative mind. Most people do not understand the insight they come across. What this creates are theories with no empirical means to weigh it. It is very interesting and entertaining no doubt! It also lights people up.



This knowledge has been passed down through secret societies for thousand of years and at a fundamental level lies at the heart of most religions although is described in allegory and metaphor. Most religions have hidden the eternal nature of our soul for whatever reason. It is an understanding I have completely reconciled my beliefs to.


It is not hidden at all. The knowledge is all around. When was the last time you gazed at a flower...?



When we die we lose our objective awareness of the physical plane and gain objective awareness on the emotional plane or Maya as some call it. When we die on the emotional plane our consciousness becomes focused on the mental plane (some would call this place heaven). For most people the next time they become aware after a long sleep is rebirth into a physical body.


What is the difference between the sound of wind blowing through the trees vs. the sound of the tide as it ebbs and flows along the shore?

Some may attempt to intellectually answer that question (philosophize) and then there are those who will actually go use their physical senses to find out.



On the spectrum of consciousness expansion we are still children.


My metaphysics tells me the exact opposite. Why limit yourself?

Btw, WHO is saying these things...?

What do YOU personally believe?








edit on 24-4-2015 by Involutionist because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2015 @ 04:03 PM
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i've also read a lot about pythagorean hylozoics and it deeply resonates with me. Kenny b, that was a very good summary of the subject. Thanks for that.

It seems people really hate when pythagorean hylozoics is mentioned. There were some threads about the subject a couple years ago but they were always closed for discussion after some time.



posted on Apr, 24 2015 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: Involutionist

Thank you. Regarding astral projecting, I can sense enough of you to know you understand. You expressed that very well. I share nearly all of your posted thoughts. Then again, isn’t that the point? Like minds.

With Astral Travel, I am a single soul who will help, advise, refer, explain anything asked or needed placed before me or addressed at me. Trying to explain that is not so much understood by a huge majority of readers here. There are those like us, those who want to learn how to BE like us, why we are what we are, what is the purpose…for you, me and them. That is very hard to explain and different for each person.

To some, it’s a gift. For others, it’s a parlor trick and fake. Still others see it as a form of magic, and not possible to travel anywhere outside the body without standing up and walking out the door. Thats why I generally don’t get into any long winded discussions on the subject. Its not up to me to convince or dissuade the world on its benefits or lack thereof.
Astral projection is real. It is not for everyone, and I don’t think mankind has yet reached the point for all of the world to practice projection, nor learn it. Now is not time, But, its coming.

There is a thin veil between this world and the next…our dimension and others parallel to our own. That veil is becoming thinner each day. Someday soon perhaps, society will be able to experience that which I and other travelers know to be true.
There is a purpose and design to all things, but not yet for all people. I can tell by the person asking and the way the question is posed whether or not they are just interested, fascinated or perhaps even a new traveler who “hasn’t received their maps” as yet, to use an expression…or one that just wants to argue its validity and impossibility.
I began in the 1970’s with great success and many surprises. I was astounded and felt privileged to have a purpose in aiding others.

I will help anyone, anywhere, anytime regarding this subject as all things come back to us. But those people must agree to me as well to “pay it forward too” if someone sometime asks them for help. And those who wish to pick it apart, denied its reality or possibility, they can seek their arguments elsewhere. This is why Ill often ask a member or poster to U2U me off-forum, because more often than not the trolls and detractors climb out from under the bridges. That is negative, and this subject is a positive one.

It is a simple form of meditation. 1st-a quieting of the mind. Next, our minds travel randomly as observers…and later with practice, we can pick where we want to go and even who to see, alive or dead. Next door or on the next continent.
To those who read this and say “Oh yeah? Well, what about…or what am I doing right now?”…no amount of convincing can provide you with the kind of answers you seek…because none would be acceptable to you no matter how I respond. Should you be one meant to “travel” you will either be able to already, or can easily learn to.

To some who want to learn…its like learning a musical instrument (I was a guitar instructor in the 70’s and 80’s).
Practice…no matter how much…does NOT necessarily make PERFECT. Why not? Because, no matter how much one practices, studies or takes lessons…some people are just plain tone-deaf, or have no sense of rythmn. And no amount of practicing will ever be effective in teaching them. Life is that way…as is Astral Projection.

One can study, practice, learn from practitioners…but no matter what…they may NEVER learn to do it correctly. So, if after all that trying and not succeeding, one thinks it can’t be done or isn’t real…they are wrong. Its just not meant for them. Some of us take flight to the other side, and some will never make it through the doorway, or up and out through the ceiling.

Seek out those who would ask and deserve to learn, who show the insight to understand, and learn something new each day and pass it on. We aren’t on this Earth forever……

Peace, Love ‘n Light Always....Mysterioustranger



posted on Apr, 24 2015 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: Involutionist



That is aura field you are referring to. Astral is different. I get where you are going with that above tho. Book reading leads to abstracted concepts. Not picking on you. I like what you had to share. Careful not get sucked into all the b.s info.


Hi involutionist, like your handle by the way!.

Aura’s is correct, as seen from a sensitives perspective, it is the subtle bodies composed from the material of each dimension, and some people can view all of the bodies including the causal. I am sad to report that I can only witness the immediate etheric body that exists in our physical dimension. My sight is not sensitive enough to objectively see the emotional or mental bodies although I am very aware of others emotional aura’s without seeing it.

The paragraph you lined through is pythagorus’s mental system, which is simply that. A way to visualise the various dimensions of reality, although my intuition tells me this is a continuous spectrum of dimensions, but we tune into each dimensional plane where most activity takes place. From my understanding there is no fraction of space in any direction that does not contain conscious matter.



Take in the insight with a contemplative mind. Most people do not understand the insight they come across. What this creates are theories with no empirical means to weigh it. It is very interesting and entertaining no doubt! It also lights people up.

Insight is what it is, a causal knowledge it cannot be incorrect although we may colour it in a way to allow us to intellectualise something there is nothing to compare with.



It is not hidden at all. The knowledge is all around. When was the last time you gazed at a flower...?

I have never taken life for granted even as a child, I have alway known at a deep level, and have been a seeker of the knowledge of reality for most of my lucid life. What I needed was to be able to understand what I was witnessing. Hylozoics is a very good framework to use to hang your own experiences on and put things into perspective.



Some may attempt to intellectually answer that question (philosophize) and then there are those who will actually go use their physical senses to find out.

I wrote a post earlier explaining that I haven’t been successful at attempting Astral Projection, not in the sense that has been described by many who do so routinely. I do experience the energy rush that feels as though a current is violently going through my body. Not something that can be ignored as it is rather frightening at times. It is at that point I gain objective awareness although I haven’t travelled far afield.

The times I am convinced I do travel although I don’t experience any sense of journeying is a very gentle sensation of being a fly on the wall(figuratively) and listen in on mundane conversations, everyday life on this plane of reality. I am convinced I travel astrally but I am not permitted to remember those experiences . I always wake up with a sense of well being and confidence that the trivialities of the physical life are inconsequential, as if I have returned from somewhere wonderful. Problems and worries never survive a single nights sleep for me.



My metaphysics tells me the exact opposite. Why limit yourself?

The pythagorean message is one of consciousness evolution and that we all are experiencing many lives in this natural progression. Our awareness takes in more and more over millions of years and 150,000 human experiences would be a normal period for this expansion to occur before we are ready to become essential selves. There is a hierarchy of life and intelligence way beyond the physical world and it is our ultimate destiny to become part of that.

The next world beyond the physical is Maya the world of illusion and as with all plains of reality is composed of several sub-planes. Most who astral travel never venture beyond those planes. It is said that many mystics who travel are fooled into believing they have experienced shambala because of the illusory nature of the emotional world. An esoteric axiom is that 'no self taught seer ever saw correctly' Only those initiated by a master knows reality. needless to say those masters do not spend much time in the physical world. The word masters itself conjures up the wrong impression with people as they are masters of life, not masters of others.



Btw, WHO is saying these things...?

Much of what I have learned is through Pythagorean Hylozoics as explained by Henry T Laurency, an immense body of work that takes a long time to fully absorb, although I have studied for a few years now there is still much to concretise in my own mind.

There is a law of life, the law of development or self realisation. The promise is the more we labour to discover the truth through our own work, the more we are allowed to see through our causal senses. You must have experienced yourself, the thrill you feel when you have something correct, as confirmation flows through you and you feel charged with knowledge. That is causal consciousness confirming your belief.



What do YOU personally believe?

I believe we are all eternal beings that can never go backwards in our evolution and that the next transmigration of our selves is into an essential being that blends into a collective consciousness, whilst still retaining our unique character.

Our purpose is to assist those yet to transmigrate and combine with an extraordinary organisation of minds in the quest to manifest the conditions for unity of all living things by manipulating the energies that sustain life. We learn from those that have preceded us as we expand into greater and greater consciousness awareness. We all ultimately become what we always where.

Our journey from a grain of sand to encompass an entire universe.



edit on 24-4-2015 by kennyb72 because: punctuation



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