Yemen war ended with saudi defeat ! operation "saving face" started

a reply to: yuppa
Ok, if it were done elaborately, it might be somewhat possible to kill an idea's ability to have an effect on society. But the simple killing of those who admit to supporting the idea would not accomplish that. You'd need the massive propaganda, incentives, rewriting history via 1984, etc.

And even then, people can have the idea in their mind, if they remember even a glimmer of its former "glory". And pass it down verbally to the youth. Although a massive surveillance system a la 1984 could prevent the verbal passing down. Perhaps written on paper? Cameras cant watch everywhere on earth regular citizens are allowed to go, can they? And from every angle?

What if it was written in code to appear as praise for the current regime? Or as crossword puzzles or other games?

There is of course, one caveat... they are currently working on technology to read minds. Perhaps every citizen will be required to be checked periodically. Or perhaps the technology will be embedded into the human body, sending an alert when certain thoughts, or certain combinations of thoughts pop up at a high enough rate.

But that gets tricky. The person who's job it is to make sure nobody has a certain idea, will by default, have the idea. And his superiors? Your dictators themselves will have the idea. The very notion that they are trying so hard to destroy it means it will be planted in their minds and they will have to spend a lot of time thinking about this idea.

With the people in power having the idea, there is a risk one of them will "fall victim" to the precepts set out by this idea and will overthrow the government or leak the idea to the masses.

If they want to destroy the idea, they must also preserve the idea, so that they will know how to identify it when they see it, so they can destroy it... So the idea has still not been killed. They might commit suicide as a way to finally kill it after they have ascertained their job is done. But how can they really be sure the idea has been killed? How do they know for sure there are not books buried somewhere? They must remain alive and vigilant, watching for any signs of the idea, therefore keeping the idea alive in their own minds.

Perhaps one day, the job will be given to AI, so no Human will have the idea. But then the idea will Still exist within the AI databanks... and who's to say the AI will not decide this idea is good, or has some usefull qualities, and will decide to spread the idea to at least some of the humans?

Thank you. I've had fun with this hypothetical situation.

originally posted by: Darkblade71
a reply to: haman10

Air strikes can only do so much,
next comes a ground invasion...

A Naval fight first, very soon. Egypt moved its ships in to block Iran and keep access to the Red sea open a while ago. The U.S. announced its sending the USS Theodore Roosevelt battle group to the waters off Yemen. The Iranian Naval group has also just showed up to the waters off Yemen in a lie about an anti- Piracy mission. If our Navy spots them moving anything into Yemen it will be boarded and if weapons are on-board the Iranian Navy ships better high tail it out of there.

Then again Obama will do anything to appease Iran so I would place money on Egypt and Saudi Arabia getting into a standoff with Iran on the high seas that will not end well for them, as Saudi Jets can fly out and sink their little boats with a variety of U.S. made missiles.

If Obama had any smarts he would order a U.S. Attack sub to sink every Iranian navy ship in the area as a warning, cough up your nuclear program and quit talking smack or else.

a reply to: yuppa

eh i dont think something like that has happened since the great khans ,sure more then a few have tried but only they and perhaps the romans pulled it off .but a fair statement none the less its the logistics of the matter that is difficult

www.stratfor.com... old one from strat for

rt.com... from RT

The Saudi-led military coalition has completed operation 'Decisive Storm' against Shiite Houthi rebels in Yemen, a statement by Saudi military command cited by local media, says. All goals set by Decisive Storm have been achieved. These included the destruction of ballistic missiles the Houthis had taken control of. The decision to end the offensive comes following a request by the Yemeni government, according to the Saudi-led coalition spokesman. The anti-Houthi campaign is now switching into a new phase codenamed 'Restoring Hope', the statement said, as cited by Saudi-owned Arabiya TV. The Saudi Defense Ministry says it is going to focus on anti-terrorism, security and finding a political solution to the crisis. READ MORE: US beefing up naval presence off Yemen amid rising regional tensions This does not, however, mean a ceasefire will be declared. "The coalition will continue to prevent the movement of Houthi militias from moving or undertaking any operations inside Yemen," Saudi spokesman Brigadier General Ahmed Asseri in the Saudi capital, Riyadh. He added that the bombing operation will resume if it is deemed necessary.

so unless OP considered RT western propaganda it looks like the show is far from over

www.cbsnews.com... CBS take on the issue and on the king preparing to send in more forces (their national Royal gaurd article is from the 13th of april)

www.thecairopost.com...

CAIRO: Saudi King Salman bin Abdul Aziz ordered Tuesday the National Royal Guard to participate in the ongoing military camping to curb the Houthi group in Yemen, Dubai-based Al Arabiya TV channel reported. The kingdom launched the campaign four weeks ago in cooperation with most Gulf countries except Oman, along with effective participation from Egypt and Jordan. Operation Decisive Storm so far has included bombing Houthi sites. Shiite Houthi fighters took control of northern parts of Yemen last September, and took control of the capital Sanaa in January. President Hadi was forced to resign and placed under house arrest, but in February he escaped to Aden, and declared he was still the president, and Aden the new capital. Press reports and critics had been questioning the timing of sending ground forces to Yemen, as military experts reckon that imposing control over a region through air strikes is not enough.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Ground fighting between rebels and pro-government forces raged on in Yemen's second city Aden and other towns on Wednesday, despite the end of a Saudi-led air campaign, witnesses said. Residents also reported clashes in third city Taez, Lahj provincial capital Huta, and the southern town of Daleh after the coalition strikes halted at midnight (2100 GMT Tuesday). Witnesses said there had been casualties but AFP could not immediately obtain a firm toll.

www.wsj.com... talks about the scope and scale of the campain

RIYADH—Watching Saudi Arabia spend hundreds of billions of dollars on sophisticated weapons in the past decade, many friends and foes of the oil-rich kingdom often wondered to what extent it would be capable of using them. Now, there is an answer. By sustaining nearly a month of intensive airstrikes in Yemen, Saudi Arabia has shown that—from a purely military standpoint—it can lead a lengthy and complicated campaign. It’s still far from clear that Riyadh will achieve its ultimate goal of rolling back the pro-Iranian Houthi forces that have taken over much of Yemen. The military campaign, the first that Saudi Arabia has led since 1934, has suffered setbacks—most notably an unexpected refusal by traditional ally Pakistan to join the coalition.

so other then pakistani forces not being committed everything seems to be going quite well comparitively for the saudis

www.usatoday.com... and i guess they have started back up the bombing campain

originally posted by: haman10

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: haman10
The real question is : why do you support saudi in this ?

Because they are not stinkin Iranian Ayatollah's who want to kill my great satan country and pleasure us with mushroom clouds. Simple enough answer for you?

OK , then i think my "axis of evil" country who is being threatened on a daily basis in US congress and senate or even FM and president of US , should go suck on a lollipop and shut up ?

While fundamental Right-wingers like you bomb innocents into oblivion and pave the way for al-qaeda to get in charge ?

Well , guess what buddy , thats never gonna happen .

enjoy this with your non-ayatollah open-minded friends :

en.wikipedia.org...

he hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda, and 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia.[1] The others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt and Lebanon. The hijackers were organized into four teams, each led by a pilot-trained hijacker with three or four "muscle hijackers" who were trained to help subdue the pilots, passengers, and crew.

nypost.com...

you deserve them , other americans , well , not .

Your country does a lot of threatening of its own. What about the state funded terrorism it's involved in?
Should we also discuss some of the civil and human rights abuses as well? Get your own house in order before you start talking about innocents.

originally posted by: teslahowitzer
Here is my take on this....if anyone gives a ****, Just because you say this and that, give links to someone's writings, agenda or not, and claim a defeat when there is no defeat.( US military told Saudi to back down) why are we to drop all mindsets and just buy your story? ( link till you fall over). Until, and only until YOUR leaders and your people stop this death to Israel..death to America recycling, you get nothing from me, I have never seen a bunch of Americans gathered chanting "death to Iran! Personal or not, you are pissing in the wind if you think that will win over a mind that actually operates independently. You have the 12th iman? you think all Americans have no clue? I will say this, there will be no change of the majority of hearts and minds....until we see some changes in the Iranian rhetoric...period...

Well dear , i explained this before , but since 7 people agreed with you , i'm going to repeat it again :

What did Iran do to US ? NOTHING .

What did US do to Iran ? well for starters , After WW2 , while Iran voiced its neutrality , USofA felt the urgent need to destroy our infrastructure and capture our lands .

2- democratically elected gov't of Dr.mossadegh was overthrown in "Operation Ajax" which was carried out by US secret service . here :

The Coup and the Shah

Iran’s 1979 revolution overthrew a monarch who had become despised for his corruption and political repression. The Iranian Shah was also known as a puppet of the U.S., thanks in part to his installation by a 1953 coup widely believed to be the handiwork of the CIA, after the Eisenhower Administration grew alarmed that Iranian Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh was drifting into the Soviet orbit. “It it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs,” Secretary of State Madeleine Albright conceded in a 2000 address, which also acknowledged that the U.S. gave “sustained backing” to the Shah’s regime, which, she admitted, “brutally repressed political dissent.”

In what may have been a gesture of contrition, the CIA finally admitted to its role on the coup’s 60th anniversary this summer. But all is not yet forgiven in Tehran, where Iran’s parliament recently gave preliminary approval for suing the U.S. in international court for staging the coup.

3- Iran -Iraq war and direct support of Iraqi Army against Iran , Although the same saddam hossein was deemed terrorist and attacked later . this part is actually really amazing and points out to the undeniable support of US for the sadam regime , pls read this part carefully :

When Iran fought a brutal eight-year war against Iraq from 1980 to 1988, Tehran felt that it was also fighting a shadow enemy: the U.S. Saddam Hussein was sustained for much of the war by arms, money and intelligence assistance that flowed from Washington. Most infuriating for some Iranians, the U.S. tolerated and even aided Saddam’s repeated large-scale chemical attacks on Iranian forces using sarin and mustard gas. By some accounts, America actually assisted Iraq with intelligence like satellite imagery and maps in advance of what Washington knew would be gas attacks. (To Iranians aware of that history, Barack Obama’s outrage over his “red line” in Syria had a hypocritical ring.) “Aspects of U.S. policy toward Iraq during its conflict with Iran appear now to have been regrettably shortsighted,” Albright said in 2000.

4- Iran Air 655 shot down by USN which claimed the lives of 300 innocent lives , 100 of them kids !! US calimed that it was a mistake saying that they confused the airliner with a tiny fighter jet . whereas even naval ships in the region who possessed much lower tech than US carrier group , Could easily distinguish the airliner with a fighter jet due to their RCS (radar cross section) basically an Airliner lives a much brighter and bigger point in the radar's scope .

US never apologized for this tragedy and the captain of USS vincence was given a medal of honor for being so courageous in shooting down an airliner .

5- The ‘Axis of Evil’ and Regime Change :

In the late 1990s Iran and the U.S. made efforts at a diplomatic thaw. After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the two countries cooperated against the Taliban in Afghanistan, and some diplomats saw a chance for a breakthrough. But in his January 2002 State of the Union address, George W. Bush described Iran as a member — along with Iraq and North Korea — of an “axis of evil” that threatened the civilized world. The line surprised and outraged Iran. According to Ryan Crocker, then a U.S. diplomat in Kabul who was engaged in talks with Iranian officials, it crushed momentum toward a rapprochement. “We were just that close,” Crocker recently told the New Yorker. “One word in one speech changed history.”

Some current and former U.S. officials call that an overstatement. But more serious for Iran than Bush’s “evil” insult is the belief that Washington’s goal is not simply to stop Iran’s nuclear program, but to replace the country’s Islamist regime entirely. Prominent figures like GOP Senator John McCain have openly called for a U.S.-backed regime change, an idea that President Obama felt compelled to address in his Sept. 24 speech to the U.N.: “We are not seeking regime change” Obama assured.

5- Sanctioning Iran to death : basically the Iranian sanctions are the harshest sanctions ever put on a country . there is no equivalent in history to this . much lighter sanctions claimed the lives of 500,000 Iraqi civilians .

So dear , yes , some Iranians HATE US government , but this is completely understandable . If Iran did all these to US , i believe you'd also chant death to Iran ! trust me you would !

basically , Iran is a million times more powerful than saudi proxies , heck we OWN the region . so if we wanted to do some hateful acts of crime , we would have done it .

now lets promote peace my friend . we're ready to put all these behind , how about you ?

originally posted by: IntroduceALittleIrony

originally posted by: haman10

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: haman10
The real question is : why do you support saudi in this ?

Because they are not stinkin Iranian Ayatollah's who want to kill my great satan country and pleasure us with mushroom clouds. Simple enough answer for you?

OK , then i think my "axis of evil" country who is being threatened on a daily basis in US congress and senate or even FM and president of US , should go suck on a lollipop and shut up ?

While fundamental Right-wingers like you bomb innocents into oblivion and pave the way for al-qaeda to get in charge ?

Well , guess what buddy , thats never gonna happen .

enjoy this with your non-ayatollah open-minded friends :

en.wikipedia.org...

he hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda, and 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia.[1] The others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt and Lebanon. The hijackers were organized into four teams, each led by a pilot-trained hijacker with three or four "muscle hijackers" who were trained to help subdue the pilots, passengers, and crew.

nypost.com...

you deserve them , other americans , well , not .

Your country does a lot of threatening of its own. What about the state funded terrorism it's involved in?
Should we also discuss some of the civil and human rights abuses as well? Get your own house in order before you start talking about innocents.

Which state involved terrorism are you talking about ? please be specific so that i can respond properly .

you cannot just throw an accusation and get along with it .

a reply to: haman10

If I may ...www.iranintelligence.com...

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: haman10

If I may ...www.iranintelligence.com...

you may not , Sir . accusations thrown by a yellow site is not acceptable .

UN resolutions , on the other hand , can be .

Pls name which terrorist organization are we supporting - according to UNSC ?

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge

originally posted by: Darkblade71
a reply to: haman10

Air strikes can only do so much,
next comes a ground invasion...

A Naval fight first, very soon. Egypt moved its ships in to block Iran and keep access to the Red sea open a while ago. The U.S. announced its sending the USS Theodore Roosevelt battle group to the waters off Yemen. The Iranian Naval group has also just showed up to the waters off Yemen in a lie about an anti- Piracy mission. If our Navy spots them moving anything into Yemen it will be boarded and if weapons are on-board the Iranian Navy ships better high tail it out of there.

Then again Obama will do anything to appease Iran so I would place money on Egypt and Saudi Arabia getting into a standoff with Iran on the high seas that will not end well for them, as Saudi Jets can fly out and sink their little boats with a variety of U.S. made missiles.

If Obama had any smarts he would order a U.S. Attack sub to sink every Iranian navy ship in the area as a warning, cough up your nuclear program and quit talking smack or else.

Oh and i missed this wonderful comment .

Dear , in the past 20 years we heard enough of these empty threats . either man up and attack Iran already or be silent and watch the show . let peace work itself out , stop threatening others , stop bombing people .

Iran is well capable of defending itself , my friend .

cough hot gates cough......AhhhhhAhhhhh..... Thrmopalye sniff... Oh what was that about persians being bad mama jammas i must a missed it.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

Difficulty to that is that Iran is a Russian client/ally. What would Vlad do? He might choose to us it ratchet up tension. A strong Iran is the ME is increased Russian petroleum control.

a reply to: haman10

Especially so long as Obama remains President. Mr. Mom Jeans couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

The real question is : why do you support saudi in this ?

People in America who support Saudi Arabia do so because...their religion...I mean their political party...I mean the almighty dollars that flow into their political parties from mega corporations, tell them to. Parroting the thoughts of your superiors/leaders/jailers is easier than thinking for yourself.



Or they just really like Saudi Arabia. You know in that grown ups feelings kind of way.

a reply to: haman10

I am afraid you are in fact mistaken as I HAVE challenged you on those facts, I MYSELF have been briefed on when Iwas in the Cav.
So I must insist you answer. BEFORE you say it I AM aware of the horrilble things the Shah did to your country and I AM highly sickened by the suffering these bankers have caused us all.
I doubt such eloquence is a capability from you.
Your deflection will be accorded to a failure of debate and the usual effoert to dismiss any such suggestion by the SAME lame methods of dicussion we nominally see when LIARS get called on such dubious evasions.
As the last major player in the area now thet we have taken Iraq out I would hope you are able to break the revenge circle so perpetuated by ALL eastern thought.
YOU really don't need nukes and WE really need to stop the oligarchs on BOTH sides.

a reply to: ketsuko

Putin is tied up in his own mess with his head butting and the EU .
China is their best hope IF IRAN could trust them.
Personally I wouldn't see them trusting ANYONE but trying for a nuke is going to cost them in ways, I CAN'T tell they know, yet.
The Norks ARE contained China ,Paks ,India, Russia and YES even Israel wouldn't attack preemptively.
Can Iran say they would give on to a client to do so? Our Intell would actually EXPECT them to and is in fact moving on that assumption
We are infedels and to them inferior( Until we actaully show up then ,like ALL eastern armies they FOLD on contact)
ALL of this isn't about a reactor to power their conntry and the world KNOWS it.

NONE of these are MY wish.