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History of Santa Claus

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posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by JesusistheonlywaytoGod
Santa Clause is entirely satanic in his roots. If any one thinks Im crazy just try and deny this and I will prove it.

Can we please stay on topic here. You wannt talk about this, start a thread on it, don't come and hijack this thread.

dh, you are not on topic either.




posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:21 PM
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I think it is on thread in a twisted sort of way, it is probably the reason why some weirdoes want to hijack christmas in the first place. I have to say though: Well so what if Santa is satanic?

The point of a secular Christmas is that all religious significance is gone. I would find it interesting on a curious level if someone could prove to me that he is the prince of darkness, but its really as irrelevant as if he is the Jesus child.

No mater how you twist it, now-days he is an icon to the gratification of materialistic needs. I quite like him that way. Please let me have him like that, and I will not interfere with whatever way you want to have him.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Gekko, I quite agree that Santa is all about receiving and giving gifts. Just as the Christians hijacke pagan holidays to soothe the masses, so has modern man hijacked some Christian holodays to make a busk (or lots $$$$). That's fine with me, as long as we all know about it.
Really, I like the jolly old gent. Although, this year my tree is up in honor of the winter Solstice.


I can't for the life of me understand why the PC police would want to ruin Christmas. Surely, amny Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc. exchange gifts. I had a Buddhist acquaintance and she and her family celebrated Christmas.

I sometimes wonder if the powers-that-be really wish and hope we won't get along and do stuff like this to antagonize people.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 03:44 AM
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It might be stretching it somewhat far, but its also worth mentioning that norse mythology most likely had its roots in its greek counterpart

I do not think that they interacted a lot. I would say that both go back to a way older god.
So our Santa could go back to a prehistoric god figure.

And no he does not go back to Satan but Santa Claus is the way you pronounce Sinterklaas in english.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 05:41 AM
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The similarities between the Greek and Norse mythologies are striking.

The vikings and their forefathers were merchants and travelers. They traveled extensively east and south into the Mediterranean and Black sea areas where they would have met people with knowledge of or faith in the Greek gods.

And yes, I would say all religions are based on prehistoric gods and myths. Probably stretching back to a mother goddess earth. But linking her with santa is like linking any modern religion or myth with her...



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by tsuribito
Yes and this guy ultimately goes back to Thor. The guy from thursday.


Thor was the god of the peasants and the common people. He was represented as an elderly man, jovial and friendly, of heavy build, with a long white beard. His element was the fire, his colour red. The rumble and roar of thunder were said to be caused by the rolling of his chariot, for he alone among the gods never rode on horseback but drove in a chariot drawn by two white goats (called Cracker and Gnasher). He was fighting the giants of ice and snow, and thus became the Yule-god. He was said to live in the "Northland" where he had his palace among icebergs. By our pagan forefathers he was considered as the cheerful and friendly god, never harming the humans but rather helping and protecting them. The fireplace in every home was especially sacred to him, and he was said to come down through the chimney into his element, the fire. 70 [Note 70: H. A. Grueber, Myths of Northern Lands, Vol. I, New York, 1895, 61ff.]



Edit: Of course. I Mixed up those two again


[edit on 21/12/04 by tsuribito]


Err, No offense but Thor was a RED Head not a White haired geezer.

Also it's Odin who had the Chariot withthe two Goats. Thos made thunder by throwing his hammer(which also made lightning).



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 08:30 AM
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Lest we forget, Thomas Nast. Nast was a political "cartoonist"/artist. He did have a really large hand in making the American Santa Claus who he is today. I have a number of prints from old (late 1800s to eary 1900s) that are Santa Claus and Christmas oriented. Check it out on the web... Kind of cool.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 08:38 AM
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Yes, the origin of Santa Claus...

He started off ass: *metallic voice*

Sir Santa, of the Claws!

Okay, okay, I couldn't resist....I love ATHF...



Merry Christmas, everyone.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 08:41 AM
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www.forteantimes.com...


Folklorists who debated the origins of these holiday activities were delighted when world traveler and Renaissance man R. M. Dawkins happened upon a fairly untouched version of this ritual in the Balkans in 1906. In this festival, large, blackened, humpbacked goat-men shambled through the village with bells around their waists and ankles. The leader carried a huge phallus; another carried a crossbow. An old woman carried a doll in a basket. As they went from house to house, the phallic goat-man pounded the phallus on the door and demanded money. In the course of the parade, the baby grew to manhood quite suddenly and demanded a bride. When she was supplied, the pair copulated, the archer shot the newly satisfied groom, the bride grieved, and the goat man revived. After receiving a gift from the homes where they performed, the paraders dragged a plough through the village.



And, apparently, some have traced the ritual back even furhter into a much more primitive prehistoric time. The Ainu in japan have a primitive bear ritual. They go into the mountains, kill a bear in its den, feast on it, remove the cubs and raise them. Joseph Campbell elaborates:
www.udayton.edu...


The bears are taken when still cubs and are raised as pets of the captor's family, affectionately nursed by the womenfolk and allowed to tumble about with the youngsters. When they have become older and a little too rough, however, they are kept confined in a cage, and when the little guest is about four years old, the time arrives for him to be sent home. The head of the household in which he has been living will prepare him for the occasion by advising him that although he may find the festivities a bit harsh, they are unavoidably so and kindly intended. "Little divinity," the caged little fellow will be told in a public speech, "we are about to send you home, and in case you have never experience one of these ceremonies before, you must know that it has to be this way. We want you to go home and tell your parents how well you have been treated here on earth. And if you have enjoyed your life among us and would like to do us the honor of coming to visit again, we in turn shall do you the honor of arranging for another bear ceremony of this kind." The little fellow is quickly and skillfully dispatched. His hide is removed with head and paws attached and arranged upon a rack to look alive. A banquet is then prepared, of which the main dish is a chunky stew of his own meat, a lavish bowl of which is placed beneath his snout for his own last supper on earth; after which, with a number of farewell presents to take along, he is supposed to go happily home.


Apparently this is traced back even further, where in neanderthal dwellings its thought that some bear skulls were found ritually arranged. And, most gruesomely, in the dwellings of Homo sapiens, who replaced neanderthals throughout their range, Neanderthal skulls are sometimes found, similarly ritually arranged.

So Santa Claus is a cave man.

A site to purchase a video of the ritual ainu ceremony
The amazon page forSanta Claus , Last of the Wild Men: The Origins and Evolution of Saint Nicholas, Spanning 50,000 Years by Phyllis Siefker, which is supposed to be all about this.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 09:08 AM
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Thor is only Zeus's equivalent in terms of the lightning and Thunder link. Zeus was primarily God of Gods, whereby Odin (Thor's father) would be his equivalent in Norse mythology, with Thor's primary and most attested role as a celebrated killer of giants. Odin, the Shamanistic chief god of the Noridc pantheon and master of the 'wyrd space' between realms, is acknowledged as being the stem of the Nordic Santa Claus tradition, -not- Thor, with the Classical Greek/Roman inspiration being Dionysus/Bacchus, -not- Zeus. The theme of Santa Claus is deeper than a collection of physical imagery and the dispersal of presents, representing the shamanistic, wild, and trickster traditions suppressed and outlawed by Christianity.

Though I do not seek to contradict anyone, I must in terms of Thor's physical description. Such descriptions are notoriously few, as any studiers of Nordic and Icelandic Literature or Myth will know all too well, and those that do exist describe him as both "outstandingly beautiful, with hair fairer than gold" (Snorri Sturluson, in a euhemeristic account which relates) and, according to the eddic poem Thyrmskvida, he has a bristling red beard, piercingly frightening eyes when roused and a vast appetite.

In terms of Santa Clause's satanistic or pagan links, I must point out that Santa Claus and Father Christmas are entirely different entities, with Santa being of European origin, usually related to faerie, monsterish, wild men, beastial or malevolent figures, later transferred to Saint Nicholas (Archbishop of Myra in Lycia, Southwestern Turkey, lived AD280 - 342, patron saint of sailors, children, unmarried girls, merchants, barrel makers, apothecaries, pawn brokers, paupers, perfumiers and of Russia), with Father Christmas being a uniquely British entity, with roots stemming from and isolated to the British Celtic, Pictish and other indigenous British Pagan traditions, and was in fact known as Yule until Ben Johnson renamed him in the 1616 Christmas Masque, retaining seperate symbolism and tradition to Santa Claus.

The link with Coca Cola's trademark red and white is coincidental, with Santa pictured in red as early as 1885 on one of Louis Prang's christmas cards, wearing the traditional shaman's uniform of fleshly flayed animal skin, fur inside and bloody side on the out, although this has also been linked to the hallucogenic mushrooms eaten by Siberian shamans.

There is an excellent article on the Santa Claus origins in the latest issue of the Fortean Times, which I have used as reference material, along with Cassel's Dictionary of Norse Myth and Legend by Andy Orchard, The Mythology of the British Isles by Charles Squire and In Search of Lost Gods by Ralph Whitlock.

To go back on topic, I see this enforced over seculisation of America as simply serving to exemplify the hyphenated culture, which is doing more damage than any terrorist attack.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Too bad you didn't READ the snopes link I posted above:



Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
www.snopes.com...
I'm thinking your research may not be as factual as you thought.


You needn't be nasty about it, DToM. Admittedly, I didn't read the Snopes link. My bad. Can you, in the spirit of the holiday season, forgive a man of unwitting ignorance in lieu of berating him?



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Too bad you didn't READ the snopes link I posted above:
www.snopes.com...


You needn't be nasty about it, DToM. Admittedly, I didn't read the Snopes link. My bad. Can you, in the spirit of the holiday season, forgive a man of unwitting ignorance in lieu of berating him?


Not being nasty, really, sorry if you thought I was


But, it does help when you read at least some of the links that supply the information for the topic.
Deny ignorance.

Merry Christmas, too


[edit on 22-12-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 12:42 PM
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Think about this! A fat, old man who gives children toys if they sit on his lap. He breaks into peoples' houses, and leaves gifts? Ummmmm....the guy was a damn child molester! I mean, there's something really wrong with the whole thing.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 10:21 PM
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See you silly child, Santa Cluase also refferd to satan cluase was a large ape , one day aliens from mars found our planet well the started to colonize well Lord santa of the apes he saw these dwarfs and attacked them , soon all the surviving elves where inprisoned where they make worthless pieces to entertain like train, and yo yo , and other things likesmall models in the shape of wariors from the universe they called it Warhammer 40k , well at the strike of midnight these toys were given to the apes, they defacated on these toys , so santa killed them all, and he ruled some more apes so thats how Lord santa came to be this tradition stayed to even this year.








DANZIG WILL HAVE YOUR HEART........



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by Stalker605
DANZIG WILL HAVE YOUR HEART........


And a Very Merry Christmass to you as well!
My Santa bless you with little pink barbies and my little ponies for three hundred years


By the way. When you take Robatussin, your not supposed to drink the whole bottle.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 04:22 PM
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stnicholas.kids.us...

stnicholas.kids.us...














what I am trying to say its a dutch party. santa claus = Sinterklaas.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 04:44 PM
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oh yeah found one more let santo do this kind of sh*t

Link to large image

[edit on 24-12-2004 by Banshee]



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
By the way. When you take Robatussin, your not supposed to drink the whole bottle.


Hahaha!!! I haven't heard anyone mention this since the old days! We used to drink bottles of that stuff.
One day, I just couldn't drink it anymore. It just made me puke every time I tried it. It was a trip until then, though. Kind of like vitamin airplane without the tracers.



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