Large Scale Study Fails to Find Correlation Between MMR Vaccine and Autism (Again)

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Krazysh0t
I am speaking truth ... but if you wish to call me a liar so be it ...

My brother had "seizures" after receiving the MMR shot
He was later diagnosed with Severe Autism

Later? When is later? If later is days or weeks after the shot, it makes your claim fishy again.

I was about 11 at the time ... It was a very frightening experience ... watching my baby brother convulsing ...
The doctor was called and diagnosed seizures ...

After the seizures ... My brother went from a normal healthy baby and regressed dramatically ... He was later given the diagnoses of having Severe Autism ...

I repeat ... "I am speaking truth" ... if you wish to call me a liar so be it ...

Are Children Born with Autism, or Does It Develop Later?

I think you are just falsely associating something that wasn't diagnosed yet because you have a confirmation bias against the MMR vaccine. You admit you were 11. How well do you think you remember that event happening? How do you know that the kid wasn't going to be diagnosed anyways, even without the vaccine? The article I just linked says that it can be hard to notice autism up until about 2 years old.

Even though the outward symptoms of autism may not be apparent immediately after birth, the underlying brain differences are accumulating. Sometimes the brain can compensate to make up for the disrupted processes. Eventually though, if the disruption was sufficiently severe, the compensatory processes are no longer enough, and symptoms emerge.

This may likewise explain many cases of autistic regression, in which a young child seems to be developing normally, only to lose abilities, or regress, into autism. Perhaps the initial disruption in brain development continued worsening. Or perhaps the compensatory processes couldn’t keep up.

Your ENTIRE piece of evidence is one anecdotal piece of evidence that suggests that correlation equals causation, but this has been disproven scientifically.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Don't accuse me of playing coy. I lay my cards right on the table. What you won't ever get from me is games.
Every drug comes with an insert outlining use, indications, contraindications and warnings. Every single one. All you have to do is ask the person giving the vaccine or what ever drug is being administered and they have to give it to you. You can also find copies of inserts online usually at the manufacturer's own site.
Here is a list of common drugs and the information of their inserts.

www.vaccinesafety.edu...



These are PDF files you need to download.

www.news10.net... the bill sb277 atvanced to the senate today in ca,it would require all children attending public schools to be vacinated and if i read it right looks to get rid of the personal exemption and possibly the religious reasons exemption from vaccines in california. it didnt appear that the latter would pass constitutional muster but i was directed to this link i found in the comments section of the article

en.wikipedia.org...

Ruling on Henning Jacobson Justice John Marshall Harlan delivered the decision for a 7-2 majority. He rejected Henning Jacobson’s claim that the Fourteenth Amendment gave him the right to refuse vaccination. Harlan deemed that the Massachusetts state punishment of fine or imprisonment on those who refused vaccines was acceptable but that those individuals could not be forcibly vaccinated. [2] At the end of his decision, Judge Harlan acknowledged that for certain individuals, the requirement of vaccination would be cruel and inhuman and therefore an overreach of government power. This created a medical exemption for adults under the Massachusetts health law but Harlan denied that Henning Jacobson deserved exemption. [3] Legal Precedent Harlan ruled that personal liberties could be suspended given external circumstances. During an outbreak, for example, the state can encroach on those liberties when "the safety of the general public may demand."[1] He compared the smallpox outbreak to the Civil War (in which three out of nine Justices at the term served) by saying that a community has the right to protect itself both from disease and from military invasion. [3] More broadly, Harlan ruled that the State of Massachusetts was justified in mandating vaccination, as “there are manifold restraints to which each person is necessarily subject for the common good” [3] While Harlan supported such restraints, he also warned that if the state targeted specific individuals or populations to unnecessary restrictions the court may have to step in to protect them. This specification falls just a few years after Wong Wai v. Williamson in which a federal circuit court injunction in San Francisco was overturned. This injunction required all Chinese residents of San Francisco to get a dangerous bubonic plague inoculation if they wished to leave the city, which Judge William Morrow ruled was "boldly directed against the Asiatic or Mongolian race as a class."[3] Harlan's decision supported both police power and limits on said power, and his decision would be invoked to support both in later cases. He stated his nuanced opinion on the limits of government power by saying that “general terms should be so limited in their application as not to lead to injustice, oppression or absurd consequence.” [3]

and i guess this could be said to be the birth of the anti vax movement as the anti-vaccination league was formed shortly there after suprised i had never heard this case get brought up in the debates before

www.northcarolinahealthnews.org... not just ca north carolina seems to be attempting to do the same

www.wral.com...

and from australia they are completely removing it from being an option www.theguardian.com... think there were a few threads on ats about this one

mgaleg.maryland.gov... maryland as well

so if this keeps going the way it is i see exemptions to vaccinations going the way of the dinosaur in 5-10 years

a reply to: bobbypurify

Seeing as how so few are actually injured vs how many parents there are who want to blame a vaccine because their child developed some condition that's probably a good thing.
The government always controlled the vaccine program. My kids couldn't go to public school without them. Neither could I, neither could my parents. Going back to the begining of the twentieth century. Meanwhile autism is a new age "disease". But vaccines go way back. The thing is here is yet another study that shows no correlation between vaccines and autism.

Uhm, feel free to read any of the works listed here:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Or this

emedicine.medscape.com...

Tell me again how safe excessive amounts of aluminum are.

Derek

a reply to: Viesczy

excessive amounts of aluminum

Define "excessive" in correlation to vaccines.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You admit you were 11. How well do you think you remember that event happening? How do you know that the kid wasn't going to be diagnosed anyways, even without the vaccine?

I remember the event vividly ... It was traumatic for not only myself but my whole family ... I have since spoken with my Mother many times who concurred ... "The kid" my youngest brother was a normal healthy baby ... He was around 18 months old when he received the MMR shot ...

He regressed immediately after the "seizures" ... and it was quite obvious to all ... he was not the same anymore ... he had become vegatative and unresponsive ... He was taken to several doctors and eventually diagnosed as "Severely Autistic" ... I am not sure of the time scale between the MMR Jab and subsequent diagnosis of Severe Autism ...

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I think parents with autistic kids need and want a something that they can point a finger at. They NEED to know why their child has autism. They'll selectively read studies the way they want, to support the beliefs they already have.

It's not unlike having faith in a religion. An atheist usually can't convince a highly religious person that their faith is bogus.

One trillion studies done around the globe could all say that the MMR doesn't cause autism, yet the anti-vax people would still claim it does. Vaccinations make a convenient scapegoat that parents (a lot of stay at home mothers I've noticed from my own personal experience) can point to.

A conspiracy feels good to buy into. When we buy into a conspiracy, we feel as if we are beholden of knowledge that the masses aren't privy to. We feel "smarter" than other people, a bit more superior. We swagger around with a smarmy grin, self-assured in the fact that we know the actual "truth". Anything that doesn't fit into the conspiracy becomes part of the conspiracy -- for you see, the conspiracy isn't wrong, the uneducated masses are.

Not to mention that most of the big Autism groups agree with this science and agree there is no link to autism through vaccinations.....but that goes against what Jenny McCarthy told these people what to believe. She's a celebrity that has a child with autism...she must be right! Right?

a reply to: AutumnWitch657

Thanks for the link you posted ... regarding the lists of side effects and also ingredients of various vaccines

Below is a copy paste of the MMR side effects from Merck

"The following adverse reactions have been reported with M-M-R®II without regard to causality: fever, headache, dizziness, rash, injection-site reactions, febrile convulsions, anaphylaxis and anaphylactoid reactions, arthritis, and thrombocytopenia"

I have made bold what affected my young brother ... I.E. Febrile Convulsions
As I stated earlier
..... "He regressed immediately after the "seizures" ... and it was quite obvious to all ... he was not the same anymore ... he had become vegatative and unresponsive ... He was taken to several doctors and eventually diagnosed as "Severely Autistic"


Was it mere coincidence that febrile convulsions followed the MMR shot ... No Merck claim themselves that this can occur
Though the risk of long term damage is very slight ... it does not rule it out completely.

The vegetative condition and lack of responsiveness followed the MMR vaccine (febrile convulsions)
This is why my brother was taken to various doctors and specialists who concluded he was severely autistic.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Don't accuse me of playing coy. I lay my cards right on the table. What you won't ever get from me is games.
Every drug comes with an insert outlining use, indications, contraindications and warnings. Every single one. All you have to do is ask the person giving the vaccine or what ever drug is being administered and they have to give it to you. You can also find copies of inserts online usually at the manufacturer's own site.
Here is a list of common drugs and the information of their inserts.

www.vaccinesafety.edu...



These are PDF files you need to download.

Pdf on MMR2 mentions a great deal about the uncertainty of the effects the vaccine has on fetal development. Do not get pregnant for a few months after the vaccine. Very clear on that warning.

Almost everyone I know has had measles and mumps. More people die from the common cold, I'm sure, probably due to a fever but you also run a hight risk of fever from the vaccines ( as per your link)... I think that if people could make up their own minds without pressure from propaganda, it is a no brainer that a vaccine for measles and mumps is not worth any risk.

You did not answer my questions. Do you perceive people who are not vaccinated a threat? Should we all comply to forced injections to make you feel safe? Or should we all be placed in re-education programs to help us think and fear the same things you do?

Oh, and science is BS. Here in Canada NO scientific study paid for by our government is allowed to be disclosed to the public without the governments consent. I'm sure the private sector is pushing themselves over for the chance to put out a study that would effect the industries bottom line.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Pdf on MMR2 mentions a great deal about the uncertainty of the effects the vaccine has on fetal development. Do not get pregnant for a few months after the vaccine. Very clear on that warning.

Important safety tip. When you take your one-year-old to get vaccinated, make sure they don't plan on getting pregnant immediately afterward.

Almost everyone I know has had measles and mumps. More people die from the common cold, I'm sure, probably due to a fever but you also run a hight risk of fever from the vaccines ( as per your link)... I think that if people could make up their own minds without pressure from propaganda, it is a no brainer that a vaccine for measles and mumps is not worth any risk.

A no-brainer, sure. But people with brains have come to the opposite conclusion. Again and again, all over the world, for decades.

Maybe calling it autism is the problem. I will probably regret doing this due to some tastelessness sometimes seen on these forums, but here is a text conversation I had with my mom who is has a PHD in neuroscience .

My question to her

Do you know of any research that suggests a link between some vaccines and autism. We talked about the odds being small but there was still a very small chance. Apparrently that small chanxe does not not exist in the mainstream. There is study after study published to prove there is NO link between the 2. Not just a small chance.

Do you know of any accepted research?

her response

No. There has not been a causal link to autism per se but there are links of serious alergic reactions to immunization and effects on brain development.

These can be so serious that they can cause severe to mild mental retardation. And yes, the term retardation is appropriate here as it literally means to halt mental development

She can be cryptic.

Ok, no accepted link to autism.

What about making children retarded?

originally posted by: FurvusRexCaeli

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Pdf on MMR2 mentions a great deal about the uncertainty of the effects the vaccine has on fetal development. Do not get pregnant for a few months after the vaccine. Very clear on that warning.

Important safety tip. When you take your one-year-old to get vaccinated, make sure they don't plan on getting pregnant immediately afterward.

Almost everyone I know has had measles and mumps. More people die from the common cold, I'm sure, probably due to a fever but you also run a hight risk of fever from the vaccines ( as per your link)... I think that if people could make up their own minds without pressure from propaganda, it is a no brainer that a vaccine for measles and mumps is not worth any risk.

A no-brainer, sure. But people with brains have come to the opposite conclusion. Again and again, all over the world, for decades.

Read the the link your picking apart responses to before you make an ass out of yourself.

Double

Post

a reply to: MALBOSIA

I am not sure T&C allows posting replies from other threads, however did you miss the part where he said the child was cured with water over 6 years?

Homeopathic = water or alcohol

That part right there should call into question the reliability of the posters statement.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: MALBOSIA

I am not sure T&C allows posting replies from other threads, however did you miss the part where he said the child was cured with water over 6 years?

Homeopathic = water or alcohol

That part right there should call into question the reliability of the posters statement.

Your right. I removed that part. That was a 3rd party experience anyway. So only 2 experienced that I have noticed. Not so remarkable

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You admit you were 11. How well do you think you remember that event happening? How do you know that the kid wasn't going to be diagnosed anyways, even without the vaccine?

I remember the event vividly ... It was traumatic for not only myself but my whole family ... I have since spoken with my Mother many times who concurred ... "The kid" my youngest brother was a normal healthy baby ... He was around 18 months old when he received the MMR shot ...

He regressed immediately after the "seizures"... and it was quite obvious to all ... he was not the same anymore ... he had become vegatative and unresponsive ... He was taken to several doctors and eventually diagnosed as "Severely Autistic" ... I am not sure of the time scale between the MMR Jab and subsequent diagnosis of Severe Autism ...

The bolded part confirms what I linked before. Autism can take up to 2 years in child before showing. It can be highly deceptive and look like the child is perfectly normal. Like I said, you are trying to link causation with correlation and it just isn't there.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The bolded part confirms what I linked before. Autism can take up to 2 years in child before showing. It can be highly deceptive and look like the child is perfectly normal. Like I said, you are trying to link causation with correlation and it just isn't there

The effects were immediate not two years later

My brother at around 18 months received the MMR shot ... later that day he suffered convulsions ... Merck acknowledge this can occur with the MMR shot ..."febrile convulsions" ...

Immediately following the convulsions it was obvious he was not the same anymore ... He had been a normal developing child but was rendered vegetative ... and unresponsive ...his condition was diagnosed as severe autism

Autism can take up to 2 years in child before showing.

Yes I understand your point but it is hardly applicable in the case of my brother for the reasons I have stated

a reply to: artistpoet

Unless a doctor SPECIALLY diagnosed that the vaccine caused the autism then you are falsely correlating a bad event to an unrelated event. The MMR vaccine DOESN'T cause autism, there is no confirmed link. Your anecdotal evidence is just that. Anecdotal.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Unless a doctor SPECIALLY diagnosed that the vaccine caused the autism then you are falsely correlating a bad event to an unrelated event. The MMR vaccine DOESN'T cause autism, there is no confirmed link. Your anecdotal evidence is just that. Anecdotal.

So the condition my brother was left in was diagnosed as Severe Autism ... The specialists words not mine
As far as anecdotal is concerned ... I have relayed facts only ... and to repeat

At 18 months my brother a normal developing child was given the MMR shot
Later the same day he suffered convulsions ...
The manufacturer of the Vaccine Merck ... state that Fibril Convulsion can occur in a small percentage of cases

The convulsions rendered my brother vegetative and non responsive ... he was taken to various doctors and specialists to ascertain what had occurred ... they diagnosed Severe Autism