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Can anyone name a religion that DOESNT believe in reincarnation?

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posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy




The Sanhedrin recorded it and the rabbis kept this literature.


There is no record of the trial or the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth.
edit on 21-4-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy




The Sanhedrin recorded it and the rabbis kept this literature.


There is no record of the trial or the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth.


Yes there is and we have given you links over and over.

It is from the Sanhedrin documents, that have been preserved and transmitted since the first century.

Not only did I link you to Josephus, who was in the first century, we also posted links to Tacitus, Pliny and Seutonius. But the links to the Sanhedrin documents, yes, we have shown that many times, even in this thread.


Talmud, b. Sanhedrin 43a: On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged [or crucified]. ... Since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.


See, that's the book..the Talmud. Sanhedrin 43A is the section it is found in.

Talmud Sanhedrin

This is why every Jewish scholar believes Jesus lived, because it was in THEIR Talmud. It wasn't written by Christians who wrote the Talmud for them, this is THEIR laws, opinions on laws and records of THEIR history and life.

If they didn't believe it and it was written much later, then they would have never put it in there. But it was written there as it happened, when it happened. Not by Christians, not by church fathers..not by scribes. JEWISH rabbis.

If there are Roman historians who never read the Talmud (Tacitus, Pliny, Seutonius, Lucian) wrote about Jesus, and a Jewish historian (Josephus) who did read the Talmud, but not Christian, wrote about the same event, then the crucifixion of Jesus was recorded historically by non-Christian sources.

If Christianity was just about a mythological character, then all of those historians were supporting the Christians. The rabbis were supporting the Christians.

But we know they weren't.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

You mean this Jesus?


. Jesus ben Pandira might have started or belonged to the Essenes (that Jewish sect that I told you about before besides the Pharisees and Sadduccees). He was reported to have been a miracle worker and upset the Maccabean king (106-79 BCE) by continually preaching about the end times, and was eventually executed by being hanged from a tree – on the eve of Passover. Ben Pandira might be the Essene “Teacher of Righteousness”; the Essene suffering, benevolent teacher.
deusdiapente.wordpress.com...


Please. This thread isn't about the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth. It's about reincarnation and whether of not it is a facet of Christianity. And, of course it is.




edit on 21-4-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 05:26 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

You mean this Jesus?


. Jesus ben Pandira might have started or belonged to the Essenes (that Jewish sect that I told you about before besides the Pharisees and Sadduccees). He was reported to have been a miracle worker and upset the Maccabean king (106-79 BCE) by continually preaching about the end times, and was eventually executed by being hanged from a tree – on the eve of Passover. Ben Pandira might be the Essene “Teacher of Righteousness”; the Essene suffering, benevolent teacher.
deusdiapente.wordpress.com...


Please. This thread isn't about the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth. It's about reincarnation and whether of not it is a facet of Christianity. And, of course it is.





You gave me a wordpress blog. I gave you the links to the actual sources.

Yes, this thread is about reincarnation, which Christianity is still not about.

I gave enough evidence from Jewish records, Jewish debate on the subject, the belief of resurrection in Judaism from multiple sources, the early Christian and Roman sources. I have presented from Jews themselves, Jewish scholars and Jewish rabbis.

I think the Jews would know themselves exactly what their teaching is about resurrection, from Olam Haba and Gehina,and the writings of the disciples to support resurrection.

You offered me a wordpress blog that says "maybe".

The Christians did not write the Talmud of the Jews, the Christians did not present the Jews with a new idea of resurrection. That means that Christianity began as a sect of Judaism, and in some ways still could be considered as such, apart from the belief in Jesus as the Messiah.

But we both believe in the Messianic Age and the world to come and the resurrection of the dead. It is just that Christians believe the Messianic Age already has been around 2,000 years. The Jews are still waiting for it.

I gave you scripture from Torah, Tanakh and the New Testament about resurrection, including their belief that Elijah didn't die, which is part of their venerated seder service. I gave you a multiplicity of sources regarding the subject and from what all I have read and known, Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in the resurrection of the dead in the end of days.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
It was understood to be physical.

Yes, I understand that was the common presumption of the times. This is why I said the following in my last post:


originally posted by: bb23108
For one, it fit into how the human was generally viewed back then:
The human being was not considered to be a soul or spirit inside the body, but as an irreducible "unit" that is given life by being "lived in" or "breathed into" by God.

For this reason (and others), Christianity became associated more with the promise of future bodily salvation through a resurrection by God - not a spiritual salvation via ascent to God as a soul or spiritual being returning to God. The latter (esotericism) is what Jesus actually taught, the former (exotericism) is what Paul revised Christianity into.


My point is that Paul revised Jesus' esoteric Teachings about the spirit ascending to the Kingdom of Heaven above to be reborn even during one's life on earth. Where does Paul talk about all of that? His is clearly just a believer's message and a future salvation sometime after death.

This spiritual way of looking at the human being as having a soul that could ascend to God was not of the Jewish tradition, but is clearly what Jesus was speaking about and is also born out in other traditions in which Spiritual Masters have initiated disciples. I have written several long posts regarding these esoteric matters hidden in the Bible, and will link you to them, though you already have seen some of them.

So you did not really respond to what I was bringing up regarding how those passages you quoted, were positively in line with a physical resurrection:

I said, "Regarding the passage you quoted, "To whom also he shewed himself alive", in Jesus teachings, the word "alive" does not mean being physically alive. To be alive, one had to be spiritually re-born. So that quote certainly points to Jesus being alive, and communicating with his followers, but not through the physical body."

Also, you did not address this that I mentioned in my last post:
"Even the final part of your quoted passage speaks of this - "they went up into an upper room, where abode" ... the disciples were gathered. Clearly this is an esoteric reference to the Light Above that Jesus spoke of as the place of spiritual birth, the place that he initiated his most devoted followers into, to be "Born to here from Above" - in order to be truly alive even while on earth."

Unless I am missing something, basically your last post was confirming what I also said at the beginning of my last post relative to resurrection being already part of the Jewish tradition. This was obviously not my point.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 06:26 PM
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originally posted by: bb23108

originally posted by: WarminIndy
It was understood to be physical.

Yes, I understand that was the common presumption of the times. This is why I said the following in my last post:


originally posted by: bb23108
For one, it fit into how the human was generally viewed back then:
The human being was not considered to be a soul or spirit inside the body, but as an irreducible "unit" that is given life by being "lived in" or "breathed into" by God.

For this reason (and others), Christianity became associated more with the promise of future bodily salvation through a resurrection by God - not a spiritual salvation via ascent to God as a soul or spiritual being returning to God. The latter (esotericism) is what Jesus actually taught, the former (exotericism) is what Paul revised Christianity into.


My point is that Paul revised Jesus' esoteric Teachings about the spirit ascending to the Kingdom of Heaven above to be reborn even during one's life on earth. Where does Paul talk about all of that? His is clearly just a believer's message and a future salvation sometime after death.

This spiritual way of looking at the human being as having a soul that could ascend to God was not of the Jewish tradition, but is clearly what Jesus was speaking about and is also born out in other traditions in which Spiritual Masters have initiated disciples. I have written several long posts regarding these esoteric matters hidden in the Bible, and will link you to them, though you already have seen some of them.

So you did not really respond to what I was bringing up regarding how those passages you quoted, were positively in line with a physical resurrection:

I said, "Regarding the passage you quoted, "To whom also he shewed himself alive", in Jesus teachings, the word "alive" does not mean being physically alive. To be alive, one had to be spiritually re-born. So that quote certainly points to Jesus being alive, and communicating with his followers, but not through the physical body."

Also, you did not address this that I mentioned in my last post:
"Even the final part of your quoted passage speaks of this - "they went up into an upper room, where abode" ... the disciples were gathered. Clearly this is an esoteric reference to the Light Above that Jesus spoke of as the place of spiritual birth, the place that he initiated his most devoted followers into, to be "Born to here from Above" - in order to be truly alive even while on earth."

Unless I am missing something, basically your last post was confirming what I also said at the beginning of my last post relative to resurrection being already part of the Jewish tradition. This was obviously not my point.




You might take it as esoteric, but the reality is that they believed in the PHYSICAL, not metaphysical ascension.

As you seem to believe the Gnostic interpretation, Paul did not ever imply or suggest that it was esoteric. I quoted from Luke, and as Luke was a disciple, why would Luke be writing to the Sanhedrin about an esoteric philosophy when the question at hand was "did Jesus raise physically from the dead?

If it were just esoteric or metaphysical, then there would have been no reason for Luke to be called before Theophilus, he could have just said it was esoteric and they would have left them alone.

There would be no reason for Peter to have been killed for an esoteric idea, neither would Stephen have been stoned, if it were just for an esoteric rambling.

The resurrection and ascension was physical. If it were mere esotericism, they would not have been killed.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy




You gave me a wordpress blog. I gave you the links to the actual sources.


I went to your link and found no such quote: "Talmud, b. Sanhedrin 43a: On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged [or crucified]. ... Since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."

I even did a word search on Passover, hanged and Yeshu. Got zip.

I can find more citations for Jesus Ben Pandira though, if you need them.

I don't know why you keep going on and on about the Talmud and the Tanakh!

The fact is that Jews and Christians both have traditions that suggest reincarnation.

ETA: I found this which is pertinent, I think to you assertions about the Sanhedrine:



Source


edit on 21-4-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 08:16 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy




You might take it as esoteric, but the reality is that they believed in the PHYSICAL, not metaphysical ascension.


Look at it this way. The Hebrews were "called out of Egypt" with Moses, just as Jesus was "called out of Egypt" when King Herod died. The tradition of the "resurrection" is taken from their Egyptian heritage; The Resurrection of Osiris. How was Osiris resurrected? His soul was implanted in Isis, the Virgin, and she gave birth his spirit in the form a new born baby Horus. REINCARNATION.

I'm sure I don't need to explain the similarities between Horus and Jesus to you.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: windword


Can you please show me in scripture where Jesus says this? Because I can show show you where it is written that he said that his followers will NOT die, and will NOT be subject judgment and that they will NOT taste death, but will have everlasting life.

No that is not what I said. I did not say that it is in my bible that Jesus said that it is appointed once to die and then judgment. What I said is that Jesus teaches that it is appointed once to die and then the judgment.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 08:55 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy




You gave me a wordpress blog. I gave you the links to the actual sources.


I went to your link and found no such quote: "Talmud, b. Sanhedrin 43a: On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged [or crucified]. ... Since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."

I even did a word search on Passover, hanged and Yeshu. Got zip.

I can find more citations for Jesus Ben Pandira though, if you need them.

I don't know why you keep going on and on about the Talmud and the Tanakh!

The fact is that Jews and Christians both have traditions that suggest reincarnation.



Talmud, Jewish opinions of laws from Torah.

Tanahk, the Old Testament portion of the Bible that is not Torah. The prophets and Psalms and Proverbs, are all Tanahk,

As our Christian Bible contains the Old Testament, it is the same as what the Jews use (only that portion), we only added the New Testament to the already existing Bible, that is why I keep referencing them in regard to Jewish sources.

They call it Tanahk, so I call it Tanahk.

Christians though do not use Talmud, Mishnah, Midrash or Zohar. Those are exclusive exegesis of written opinions and explanations of Torah.

Talmudic Reference

We know the Bible does say that several times they did try to stone Him. And

With Yeshu however it was different, for he was connected with the government [or royalty, i.e., influential].'
We know also that he did have friends that were Pharisees, and remember the Pharisees were part of the governing religious body, that Herod was a Pharisee also.

Nicodemus, one of the Pharisees that Jesus talked to secretly, was also a Pharisee. It was at a Pharisee's house that Mary of Bethany came to anoint His feet. Yes, He was influential enough to be where the Pharisees were.

And only 5 disciples were brought to trial, but you can see that they all believed also the teaching of Jesus, in their responses they gave Tanahk.


Our Rabbis taught: Yeshu had five disciples, Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni and Todah. When Matthai was brought [before the court] he said to them [the judges], Shall Matthai be executed? Is it not written, Matthai [when] shall I come and appear before God?37 Thereupon they retorted; Yes, Matthai shall be executed, since it is written, When Matthai [when] shall [he] die and his name perish.38 When Nakai was brought in he said to them; Shall Nakai be executed? It is not written, Naki [the innocent] and the righteous slay thou not?39 Yes, was the answer, Nakai shall be executed, since it is written, in secret places does Naki40 [the innocent] slay.41 When Nezer was brought in, he said; Shall Nezer be executed? Is it not written, And Nezer [a twig] shall grow forth out of his roots.42 Yes, they said, Nezer shall be executed, since it is written, But thou art cast forth away from thy grave like Nezer [an abhorred offshoot].43 When Buni was brought in, he said: Shall Buni be executed? Is it not written, Beni [my son], my first born?44 Yes, they said, Buni shall be executed, since it is written, Behold I will slay Bine-ka [thy son] thy first born.45 And when Todah was brought in, he said to them; Shall Todah be executed? Is it not written, A psalm for Todah [thanksgiving]?46 Yes, they answered, Todah shall be executed, since it is written, Whoso offereth the sacrifice of Todah [thanksgiving] honoured me.47


First, "When shall I come and appear before God?" Psalm 42:2
Second, "A twig shall grow forth out of His roots", prophetic message Isaiah 11:1
Third, "thou are cast away from thy grave" Isaiah 14:9
Fourth, "Behold I shall slay thy first born". Exodus 42:3
Fifth, "Whoso offereth the sacrifice of Thanksgiving" Leviticus 22:29

Even in the Talmud charges, His disciples maintained the prophetic message that Jesus fulfilled, for as Jesus said "it is written", so they said "it is written". They literally challenged the rabbis with "it is written" in their belief in the prophecies concerning Jesus.

Simply amazing and I didn't know that until you asked me to find it. Thank you for that.

And I must also add, that even though we disagree about many things, at least we have remained civil. And no, I don't think of you as a heathen and never have.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy
I re-read the Luke passages and it is like Jesus' parables - masked to hide the esoteric meanings, but they are there. The "upper room" where the disciples were is real obvious. What does that mean to you?

You wrote:

As you seem to believe the Gnostic interpretation, Paul did not ever imply or suggest that it was esoteric.

Why do you keep insisting that I believe Paul suggested anything esoteric about these matters? I never said that. He pushed for the physical resurrection and ascension myths for people to believe in, thus insuring their own eventual salvation. This was the popular message for building his church upon, but this is NOT what Jesus taught about (the secrets of) the Kingdom of God, the eye being single and the disciple being full of light, etc., etc.

What does Jesus saying "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God." mean to you?

Also, Jesus' teaching of one's spirit ascending to the Kingdom of God, obviously supports reincarnation because it does not view the human being as a solid bodily "unit" that only God breathes life, but attributes the human with spirit and flesh, with spirit as senior, and what is truly the basis of one's rebirth in this life, and spiritual salvation through ascent even after death.

edit on 4/21/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 09:10 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy




You might take it as esoteric, but the reality is that they believed in the PHYSICAL, not metaphysical ascension.


Look at it this way. The Hebrews were "called out of Egypt" with Moses, just as Jesus was "called out of Egypt" when King Herod died. The tradition of the "resurrection" is taken from their Egyptian heritage; The Resurrection of Osiris. How was Osiris resurrected? His soul was implanted in Isis, the Virgin, and she gave birth his spirit in the form a new born baby Horus. REINCARNATION.

I'm sure I don't need to explain the similarities between Horus and Jesus to you.



Not unless you want the whole hour video of Chris White debunking Zeitgeist.

Already heard it, already know it is wrong. Horus and Jesus, not the same.

If you want the esoteric meanings in the Bible, and not literal, Egypt simply means a place of bondage. That is one symbolism.

Egypt is a real place, so why would God call out His people from a place of bondage and say "serve no other gods" but then be Osiris?

That would be like Osiris sending them away, to call Osiris by another name, and yet tell them to no longer worship like Egyptians.

There is no parallel.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: windword


Can you please show me in scripture where Jesus says this? Because I can show show you where it is written that he said that his followers will NOT die, and will NOT be subject judgment and that they will NOT taste death, but will have everlasting life.

Sorry about that last post windword. I hit the wrong button.
As I was saying that Jesus teaches through His Apostles as well as His own sermons.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Meaning that the flesh will die and not meaning that the spirit will die with the flesh. His followers will die a terrestrial death of the flesh as they certainly have done but also meaning that the spirit is that which is judged and will not die. The only death of the spirit is in the final day of punishment where the rejected spirits are cast into the lake of fire.

Common sense will tell you that you cannot be in hell or heaven without being judged and put in heaven or hell. In the final end of humanity those who have died in the flesh and are in heaven will not be judged again. Only those who are alive at the end will then be judged at the great white throne seat of judgment and not those who have died prior to the end time.

The first Christians believed that as you die your spirit is fully conscious and is judged immediately upon death. The fully conscious spirit passes directly into either Terrestrial Sheol or Celestial New Jerusalem. But in some organized religions of today that is not believed to be the case. It all depends upon what the denominational doctrine teaches.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: WarminIndy
I re-read the Luke passages and it is like Jesus' parables - masked to hide the esoteric meanings, but they are there. The "upper room" where the disciples were is real obvious. What does that mean to you?

You wrote:

As you seem to believe the Gnostic interpretation, Paul did not ever imply or suggest that it was esoteric.

Why do you keep insisting that I believe Paul suggested anything esoteric about these matters? I never said that. He pushed for the physical resurrection and ascension myths for people to believe in, thus insuring their own eventual salvation. This was the popular message for building his church upon, but this is NOT what Jesus taught about (the secrets of) the Kingdom of God, the eye being single and the disciple being full of light, etc., etc.

What does Jesus saying "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God." mean to you?

Also, Jesus' teaching of one's spirit ascending to the Kingdom of God, obviously supports reincarnation because it does not view the human being as a solid bodily "unit" that only God breathes life, but attributes the human with spirit and flesh, with spirit as senior, and what is truly the basis of one's rebirth in this life, and spiritual salvation through ascent even after death.


The Upper Room was a literal part of a house. That's where they ate meals. The Romans called it a cenacle

That was traditional architecture. In the Bible, they met in the upper room (cenacle) to eat the Passover Seder.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 09:34 PM
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originally posted by: Seede


The first Christians believed that as you die your spirit is fully conscious and is judged immediately upon death. The fully conscious spirit passes directly into either Terrestrial Sheol or Celestial New Jerusalem. But in some organized religions of today that is not believed to be the case. It all depends upon what the denominational doctrine teaches.



Let me help a little here...

Ezekiel 18:

3 As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.


Commandment of God. (long chapter, so I can't quote the whole thing)


20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.


If the wicked turn away from sin, then he has a place in Olam Habah, the place where the righteous go.

The spiritual afterlife is referred to in Hebrew as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come, although this term is also used to refer to the messianic age. The Olam Ha-Ba is another, higher state of being. In the Mishnah, one rabbi says, "This world is like a lobby before the Olam Ha-Ba. Prepare yourself in the lobby so that you may enter the banquet hall." Similarly, the Talmud says, "This world is like the eve of Shabbat, and the Olam Ha-Ba is like Shabbat. He who prepares on the eve of Shabbat will have food to eat on Shabbat." We prepare ourselves for the Olam Ha-Ba through Torah study and good deeds. The Talmud states that all Israel has a share in the Olam Ha-Ba. However, not all "shares" are equal. A particularly righteous person will have a greater share in the Olam Ha-Ba than the average person. In addition, a person can lose his share through wicked actions. There are many statements in the Talmud that a particular mitzvah will guarantee a person a place in the Olam Ha-Ba, or that a particular sin will lose a person's share in the Olam Ha-Ba, but these are generally regarded as hyperbole, excessive expressions of approval or disapproval.



The world to come, that is what Jesus taught.


Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.


The Olam-Habah.

Paul taught it as well


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame


There are no second chances.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

I know what they are, I just don't see how any of it pertinent to this conversation. This thread isn't about the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth or his disciples.
edit on 21-4-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy
I doubt if Luke would include that reference for that reason only - and also that he said "an" upper room, not "the" upper room.

This quote I asked you about (copied again below) does have relevance to the matter of reincarnation (not just the esotericism of spiritual ascent), given it talks about the human as spirit not just flesh.

John 3:3
Jesus replied to him, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."

and this one:

John 3:8
"The wind blows where it wants to. You hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. That's the way it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

It certainly is indicating the freedom of the spirit apart from the flesh, and this of course supports the potential for reincarnation more so than the Jewish tradition did. (Not to mention support for esoteric ascension of the spirit.)



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy




There is no parallel.


The parallels are staggering.

But I never meant to get into Zeitgiest matters. I was just explaining what Egyptian resurrection is all about, and how Egyptian philosophy affected Jewish thought.

Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe that after the end of time, we'll live in heaven in perfect, incorruptible bodies. But, until then, there's room for reincarnation in all those schools of thought.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: WarminIndy
I doubt if Luke would include that reference for that reason only - and also that he said "an" upper room, not "the" upper room.

This quote I asked you about (copied again below) does have relevance to the matter of reincarnation (not just the esotericism of spiritual ascent), given it talks about the human as spirit not just flesh.

John 3:3
Jesus replied to him, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."

and this one:

John 3:8
"The wind blows where it wants to. You hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. That's the way it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

It certainly is indicating the freedom of the spirit apart from the flesh, and this of course supports the potential for reincarnation more so than the Jewish tradition did. (Not to mention support for esoteric ascension of the spirit.)




Would you care to finish the quotes? Please put the full quotes and not snippet.

Born of the flesh and born of the spirit, as God said "from the dust you came and to the dust you shall return". The soul that sins shall die. That's it.

Born again, it doesn't say from body to body, but that moment of reconciliation with God, in this life. That is why He is a mediator.

What does He mediate? That broken bridge, that broken fellowship. In this life.

You reap what you sow, in this life. That is what Jesus taught.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 10:03 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy




There is no parallel.


The parallels are staggering.

But I never meant to get into Zeitgiest matters. I was just explaining what Egyptian resurrection is all about, and how Egyptian philosophy affected Jewish thought.

Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe that after the end of time, we'll live in heaven in perfect, incorruptible bodies. But, until then, there's room for reincarnation in all those schools of thought.



Egyptian religion also taught that your heart was weighed against a feather.


The ancient Egyptians believed that, when they died, they would be judged on their behaviour during their lifetime before they could be granted a place in the Afterlife. This judgement ceremony was called "Weighing of the Heart" and was recorded in Chapter 125 of the funerar text known as the "Book of the Dead".



If the deceased was found to have done wrong and the heart weighed down the scales, he or she was not though to enter a place of tourment like hell, but to cease to exist at all. This idea would have terrified the ancient Egyptians. However, for those who could afford to include Chapter 125 of the Book of the Dead in their tombs, it was almost guaranteed that they would pass successfully into the Afterlife. This is because the Egyptians believed in the magical qualities of the actual writings and illustrations in funerary texts. By depicting the heart balancing in the scales against the feather of Maat they ensured that would be the favourable outcome. The entire ceremony was, after all, symbolic.


If you were bad, you didn't get to reincarnate..Egyptians didn't believe that. If you were good, you didn't get to reincarnate...Egyptians wrote that in the Book of the Dead.

So you just cease to exist..that is all.



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