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Can anyone name a religion that DOESNT believe in reincarnation?

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posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy




But the Medieval Kabbalah was to raise the golem. The Sephirot is nothing more than just some guy's idea of giving attributes to random things. Nothing more.


Some guy? You mean Enoch? Qabala, which is derived from the Book of Enoch, is much, much more than what you suggest, and you'd know that if you'd studied it instead of looking to discredit it.



The Book of Enoch or Kabbalah?

Neither you nor I, nor the other poster can study true Kabbalah because we aren't Jewish and we aren't part of the Jewish community. Madonna and all the Hollywood stars that think they study Kabbalah, no. You have to convert, go to Hebrew school for 6 years, then go to yeshiva, then become a rabbi, before you can even study Kabbalah.

It is a discipline for rabbis. Not the common people. So what you think people are being taught is nothing more than New Age philosophy. Fake Kabbalah

and here

What is Kabbalah

True Kabbalah is that you must be a rabbi before you can even study it. All of this other stuff, just a bunch of stuff to sell classes or books.

Whatever school of Kabbalah said that Enoch was the original, sorry, that is just them inserting their own ideas of Kabbalah onto the book.

But tell you what, here are free classes.




posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
Well, I believe Heaven to be real. So the levels of Heaven, I would not think of them as merely "planes of consciousness" or "levels of ascendency".

The spiritual realm isn't only Heaven, but we don't really know the whole of the spiritual realm, but to me it is real and I have experienced in my life the reality of that.

I believe it is more real than I am. I don't understand about different planes. Levels to me are like sections.


Okay, so you believe there is a spiritual realm that is not the Kingdom of Heaven. Now isn't that esoteric? Is such a realm actually described in Christianity? That would be interesting because if the kingdom of Heaven is beyond this lower realm, what is its purpose in Christianity?

In other traditions this spiritual realm is the etheric (subtle/astral) planes where we ascend to when we die. This is where the transmigration process I described earlier occurs. Now if one is free of all karmic ties to both the physical and the subtle (and causal) worlds, then the God-Light Above (the Kingdom of God) is one's possibility. No way otherwise because one's "impure" (distracted) attention will keep one from being able to enter the pure white Light-Love-Bliss of the Kingdom of God.

So what about this other spiritual realm you believe in? If this is part of Christian doctrine, then this makes sense relative to reincarnation/transmigration, and also reconciles my earlier question. And, that Jesus does reward various types who are loving, also indicates another spiritual realm exists that is not the Kingdom of God.

If this is true in Christianity, then it is NOT a black and white matter relative to Heaven or Hell. What say you (or any one else)?



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: Seede

The biblical understanding of death should not be esoteric.



originally posted by: Seede
In order to understand this you must consider all scripture pertaining to what is actually meant by this. The Revelation of Jesus to John declares "and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."



Either this ascent is esoteric or it generates a lot of questions! I understand that people believe they are going to physically ascend, so it requires a lot of vague explanations to get beyond the sheer physical impossibility of this. Billions of bodies going into the skies? Am I missing something here?

I do appreciate your writing your understanding of these scriptures from a body-based (exoteric) standpoint, but it still does not make sense to me.

This process that Jesus taught his followers is so clearly about one's spirit ascending beyond the physical body at death - why is this found to be anathema? It answers these basic questions unlike attempts to do so from a body-based approach, which often sound like very bizarre interpretations of Biblical writings.

Might it not have more to do with people being identified so mightily with the body-mind, that they want to hold on to it at death? And that even some of the Biblical writings incorporated this view, rather than trying to communicate the non-body-based teachings of Jesus?



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: bb23108

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Well, I believe Heaven to be real. So the levels of Heaven, I would not think of them as merely "planes of consciousness" or "levels of ascendency".

The spiritual realm isn't only Heaven, but we don't really know the whole of the spiritual realm, but to me it is real and I have experienced in my life the reality of that.

I believe it is more real than I am. I don't understand about different planes. Levels to me are like sections.


Okay, so you believe there is a spiritual realm that is not the Kingdom of Heaven. Now isn't that esoteric? Is such a realm actually described in Christianity? That would be interesting because if the kingdom of Heaven is beyond this lower realm, what is its purpose in Christianity?

In other traditions this spiritual realm is the etheric (subtle/astral) planes where we ascend to when we die. This is where the transmigration process I described earlier occurs. Now if one is free of all karmic ties to both the physical and the subtle (and causal) worlds, then the God-Light Above (the Kingdom of God) is one's possibility. No way otherwise because one's "impure" (distracted) attention will keep one from being able to enter the pure white Light-Love-Bliss of the Kingdom of God.

So what about this other spiritual realm you believe in? If this is part of Christian doctrine, then this makes sense relative to reincarnation/transmigration, and also reconciles my earlier question. And, that Jesus does reward various types who are loving, also indicates another spiritual realm exists that is not the Kingdom of God.

If this is true in Christianity, then it is NOT a black and white matter relative to Heaven or Hell. What say you (or any one else)?



No, the Kingdom of Heaven is in the spiritual realm.
It is a real place, not a physical place like me sitting here in 4D typing this message.

It's not an imaginary place, it is not a idealized place, it is real.

It touches the natural, as the natural touches the spiritual.

Let me ask this, when people astral project, do they do that solely in their minds? Do they go to other conscious levels or planes? Or do people actually accomplish going to real places? Have they gone to a real place?

I hear people all the time talking about meditating, stimulating the pineal gland, the beta and delta waves, the Tibetan singing bowls, the chanting Om, the clearing of the mind, the chakras, the kundalini....and then study esoteric teachings from some guy who says he knows it all, mix ideas of Hinduism with Judaism, then you might learn something. But to what end?

What is the purpose of all of this? What is gained by all of it?

I say the spiritual realm touches the natural world and the natural world touches the spiritual, but we have only gotten a glimpse of it. The kingdom of heaven surrounds the earth, but only touching it, because it is the real spiritual kingdom.

And we just don't know everything or even half of what is there. And we don't have to meditate to experience it, we don't have to even believe in anything to experience it. The reality of that place is more real than us. We are only the image of God.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

I've been "studying" Qabal/Kabbalah, since the 80's. There are various ways to become "Jewish", esoterically, even though I am Jewish through ancestry.

I don't think you have one clue to the esoterics behind it.

I can provide links too!
Extreme Kabbalah



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

I've been "studying" Qabal/Kabbalah, since the 80's. There are various ways to become "Jewish", esoterically, even though I am Jewish through ancestry.

I don't think you have one clue to the esoterics behind it.

I can provide links too!
Extreme Kabbalah



I'm Jewish by ancestry also. I think you have heard me talk about it. My ancestors were ben Shanan, Sephardi and Brickner, Ashkenazi.

I understand it is esoteric, which simply means occultic, which simply means hidden. And all those esoteric schools simply mean that they have applied "secret" meaning to things that might not have any bearing on anything at all.

Example, to say the left hand is "sinister" and sinister means something is evil and dangerous, so avoid the left hand, even to the point that the left side is called sinister.

And what did this accomplish? By placing esoteric meaning onto the left, children who were left handed were forced to learn to write with the right. See what esoterism does?

It leads to superstitions, which Jesus tells us to avoid. The number 13 is unlucky, why? Who determined that 13 is unlucky?

Breaking a mirror, the Hamza Hand to ward off the Evil Eye, the Hex Signs of the Amish, garlic, salt and silver bullets to stop werewolves and vampires. All superstitions that arose out of esoteric and occult teachings.

Did you sing to your daughter to prevent Lillith, who became a demonic owl, from stealing your daughter from her baby bed? That is Zohar. The esoteric schools have only led people into superstitions.

Do you have a Hamza Hand to protect you from the Evil Eye?


BTW, if I seem to be getting a little testy, I do apologize. I am out of cigarettes and it is too cold for me to go to the store in my wheelchair. So my apologize if I sound snippy. I hope that is forgiven.




edit on 4/23/2015 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy


It leads to superstitions, which Jesus tells us to avoid.


As opposed to blind faith? LOL RICH! All of Christianity is based on superstition!


Isaiah 29:11
For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say, "Read this, please," they will answer, "I can't; it is sealed."



Mark 4
And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.


Sounds pretty esoteric to me!



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 03:25 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy


It leads to superstitions, which Jesus tells us to avoid.


As opposed to blind faith? LOL RICH! All of Christianity is based on superstition!


Isaiah 29:11
For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say, "Read this, please," they will answer, "I can't; it is sealed."



Mark 4
And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.


Sounds pretty esoteric to me!


Are you sure all of Christianity is based in superstition? If Christianity is really esoteric, then it wouldn't bad to be superstitious then would it?

If Judaism is esoteric, and rife with superstitions, then superstitions that lead to blind faith wouldn't be bad, now would it?

I'm going to study alchemy now, I might get that pot of gold, and since I am so short, I shall don the green and confuse the leprechauns.

Blind faith from superstitions from esoteric teaching of Judaism and Christianity. That's pretty logical.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
No, the Kingdom of Heaven is in the spiritual realm.
It is a real place, not a physical place like me sitting here in 4D typing this message.

It's not an imaginary place, it is not a idealized place, it is real.

It touches the natural, as the natural touches the spiritual.


Yes, I understand this. But I asked about the other spiritual realm that you mentioned earlier and that is implied from Jesus rewarding other types too.

How come this simple question keeps getting evaded? If there is, in Christianity, a spiritual realm outside of the Kingdom of God, this makes a HUGE difference in terms of answering my rather simple questions asked earlier.



originally posted by: WarminIndy
What is the purpose of all of this? What is gained by all of it?

Many people feel experiences above the body-mind represent a possibility for transformation, for improving oneself, for feeling more the core of our being in terms of love and unity.

Many such people also look to escape this very difficult physical existence. Such experiences can be very consoling, fun, fascinating, and even self-glorifying - if people start making much about them, and they often do.

In reality, God simply IS. What we are constantly doing is separating from the Divine through endlessly moving wherever our attention and energy demand, whether intentionally or unintentionally. This is the root way we miss the mark - because it is the root activity, moment-to-moment, that separates us from God.

So searches for mystical experiences are ultimately no more Divine than anything else. The Divine is not "Known" through the mechanism of attention, and all such experiences, high or low, require attention.

Only when we fully transcend the self-knot of attention, is the Kingdom of Heaven fully entered. This is why Jesus said that only through him (through transcending oneself) can one enter the Kingdom of God.


originally posted by: WarminIndy
I say the spiritual realm touches the natural world and the natural world touches the spiritual, but we have only gotten a glimpse of it. The kingdom of heaven surrounds the earth, but only touching it, because it is the real spiritual kingdom.


Ultimately all conditions appear in the indivisible Divine Reality. There is no separation in Reality - it only seems that way to the individual body-mind, until the separative gesture of attention is understood, and released by Grace. That is why Jesus told everyone to love God fully - to forget (transcend) oneself in the Divine.


originally posted by: WarminIndy
And we just don't know everything or even half of what is there. And we don't have to meditate to experience it, we don't have to even believe in anything to experience it. The reality of that place is more real than us. We are only the image of God.

Are you talking about experiencing the Kingdom of God or a conditional spirit realm?

edit on 4/23/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: bb23108

Let me try again. It seems answering one point can get quite exhausting, because there is so much material to draw on. I didn't intentionally mean to miss your question.

I am trying to answer it as well as possible.


If there is a spiritual realm outside of the Kingdom of God, this makes a HUGE difference in terms of answering my rather simple questions asked earlier.



John 4: 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


God is a spiritual PERSON, meaning that as a spirit, He has a personality, a mind, an intelligence, and a language. God is holy, or kadosh. Set apart.

God created the natural and the spiritual. God is capable of transcending time and space because as the Creator, He is beyond and in at the same time.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God said "let there be light", John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was God and the word was with God.

The Kingdom of God is where God dwells, as King. God is over all, even in the spiritual realm, because it is the spiritual realm where God abides. So the answer to your question is that the Kingdom of God is in the spiritual realm, not separate from it, but had one time been in the physical realm, until the fall of man. But now, the Holy Spirit is now presently in the world to bring mankind back into fellowship with God.

The kingdom of God is real, in the spiritual realm. But, because Jesus came from Heaven, as the Word manifested, the Word became natural. And when Jesus resurrected and went back to the Father, His natural body was glorified to never see corruption.

Jesus said


John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.


Then Paul said

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.


Therefore, the kingdom of God is spiritual and it is where God, that Moses describes as a Man of War and Elijah says answers by fire, is at. A spiritual entity that has a mind "for who hath known the mind of God", a voice "let there be light" a personality "a man of war, God is love" and a spiritual body that was the pattern for man "God has eyes to see, His arm is not shortened that He cannot save, He has ears to listen".

God is not an idea, God is a spiritual being that sits in a spiritual kingdom that has authority over the natural world that He created.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy
That was an interesting read, sir. I like that God is considered the Divine Person in Christianity, though I can't figure that such a Being would need a mind, etc. But this is food for thought and consideration on a different day for me.

I realize you are trying to answer my question, and this answers it to some extent. The main reason I am asking about this is to find out if those other type of people Jesus also rewards, go to this spiritual realm too. Because if they do, this is very similar to what other traditions consider to be true, and then accounts for my original question relative to just going to Heaven or Hell.

So do they stay in the spiritual realm but do not enter the Kingdom of God? If they don't even stay in the spiritual realm, what is their reward from Jesus then?

Sorry about the bolding before, but I just didn't want it missed again. Believe me, I do appreciate the effort you put into your posts but please don't exhaust yourself. We can slow this down.

edit on 4/23/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy




Are you sure all of Christianity is based in superstition? If Christianity is really esoteric, then it wouldn't bad to be superstitious then would it?


Esotericism isn't based on superstition, it's based on knowledge, private knowledge. Christianity requires one to believe that Jesus of Nazareth is God, born of virgin, died for sin and rose from the dead to defeat death... That's superstition!


Superstition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition
Wikipedia
Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event causes another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, prophecies, etc., that contradicts natural science.


The Tree of Life of the Kabbalah is a mirror image of the body. It teaches the body is the temple.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy




Are you sure all of Christianity is based in superstition? If Christianity is really esoteric, then it wouldn't bad to be superstitious then would it?


Esotericism isn't based on superstition, it's based on knowledge, private knowledge. Christianity requires one to believe that Jesus of Nazareth is God, born of virgin, died for sin and rose from the dead to defeat death... That's superstition!


Superstition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition
Wikipedia
Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event causes another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, prophecies, etc., that contradicts natural science.


The Tree of Life of the Kabbalah is a mirror image of the body. It teaches the body is the temple.



Yes, but who assigned the parts of the body to those things? That is called metaphysics.

I say my left arm is my left arm and my right arm is my right arm. They are part of my biological body and is controlled solely by electro-chemial processes that were designed to function that way by God.

If my arm might be cut off, my brain still responds as though it is still there. That is called "phantom pain". But there's nothing esoteric about it to me.

But the assignment of planets, tribes or whatever was done by a person.

The temple, what inward priest offers sacrifices for your outward actions? If the temple is the expression of the body, or the body is the expression of the temple, according to Kabbalah, then what priest burns incense inwardly?

Yes, your body is a temple. But Jesus said when He turned over the tables of the money lenders, what did He say "My Father's house shall be a house of prayer, but you have made it a den of thieves"?

What then is happening with you inwardly that would cause Jesus to say in esoteric meaning, that your body is not your body, but the Temple of God, but it is a den of thieves?

Therefore, in that context that you might be saying Jesus meant, then you are to be in prayer. So in prayer to whom? God. And as Jesus is the Son of God, then it makes you a den of thieves to buy and sell unnecessary sacrifices that should be burned by the priest.

Jesus is the High Priest and the sacrifice, so if it is esoteric, then what is the Son within you, that you must crucify?



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: bb23108

I am going to try to respond to this particular point



The main reason I am asking about this is to find out if those other type of people Jesus also rewards, go to this spiritual realm too. Because if they do, this is very similar to what other traditions consider to be true, and then accounts for my original question relative to just going to Heaven or Hell.


Everyone goes to the spiritual realm.

Hell is the place of fire, remember that God answers by fire. Jesus taught this in the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

The rich man was tormented in the flames. He asked Father Abraham to send Lazarus to him with some water, because he was tormented. Abraham's Bosom is paradise to the Jews. Abraham said that Lazarus cannot go because they were separated by a great gulf, and the rich man had to look up.

Then the rich man asked for Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers to warn them of the place he was in. Abraham said "If they don't even listen to Moses and the prophets, then how will they listen to one come back from the dead?" Meaning, resurrected in that body to preach resurrection and righteousness.

Then Jesus told the parable of the three servants that were each given talents by their master. The first was given 10, the second one was given 5 and the last was given 2. As the first two men went out and worked with their talents to increase them, the third man did nothing but hide them. The master then said "cast him into the flames where the worm dieth not and their thirst is not quenched, and there is gnashing of teeth".

Jesus taught that hell was a place of torment. Where this torment is, it is separate from paradise. And one day, death and hell are cast into outer darkness. Away from God.

Even the Egyptians, Hindus, Mayans and a lot of other religions taught a place of hell. They all taught that it was a place of torment.

Naraka is hell to the Hindus and overseen by Yama.

If one says that Jesus was teaching Hinduism, then why could He not have taught about Naraka?

I hope that helps.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

I think at this point I need to say this.

I have seen a UFO, I have seen Bigfoot, I grew up in a haunted house, I have seen shadow people, I have psychic abilities, I have experienced many things that are not answered within much of Christian doctrine.

But as I cannot explain those things, I have to accept that they come from a realm outside of my immediate knowledge. But as a Bible believer, I can only speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent. I would not tell you something outside of that, because I have to give an answer for the hope that lies within me.

Those things I have seen, you won't find the answer from most Christians, because they are taught there is nothing supernatural. But I believe in the supernatural. And maybe that is why much of what you ask is difficult to answer, so I go with what I know.

I know the Bible is true, because I have applied it and have seen the results.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 07:09 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy
Yes this helps. Thank you.

(My parentheticals are what my view is of each realm you brought up, and also has a basis in certain traditions.)

So you are saying that everyone when they die goes to a spiritual realm (agreed), some get sent to Hell (this could be a real dark bardo in the spirit realm or even reincarnation on Earth, which is considered a hell by many), and others are chosen for the Kingdom of Heaven (agreed if they are truly and totally prepared in heart, mind, body, and spirit).

So then there are at least two levels in the spirit realm in Christianity - those headed for the Kingdom of Heaven, and the others who are simply rewarded by Jesus for their good works, etc. Hell is also a spirit realm in most traditions - but a terribly dark one.

So it is not just Heaven or Hell - there is a middle ground even in Christianity, like many of the religions with reincarnation, in which their karma dictates their "rewards".

Is this a proper understanding of what you said (not including my parentheticals, of course) - at least in general terms?

edit on 4/23/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 07:22 PM
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originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: WarminIndy
Yes this helps. Thank you.

(My parentheticals are what my view is of each realm you brought up, and also has a basis in certain traditions.)

So you are saying that everyone when they die goes to a spiritual realm (agreed), some get sent to Hell (this could be a real dark bardo in the spirit realm or even reincarnation on Earth, which is considered a hell by many), and others are chosen for the Kingdom of Heaven (agreed if they are truly and totally prepared in heart, mind, body, and spirit).

So then there are at least two levels in the spirit realm in Christianity - those headed for the Kingdom of Heaven, and the others who are simply rewarded by Jesus for their good works, etc. Hell is also a spirit realm in most traditions - but a terribly dark one.

So it is not just Heaven or Hell - there is a middle ground even in Christianity, like many of the religions with reincarnation, in which their karma dictates their "rewards".

Is this a proper understanding of what you said (not including my parentheticals, of course) - at least in general terms?


Yes, I would have to say there is a middle ground. But again, it depends on the particular denomination.

Reincarnation is the one thing that has not been part of Christian teaching. Resurrection has always been taught.

What you call reincarnation, or transmigration of the soul, is not something we can say, because we believe that each person has their own soul that is individual to them. That the body and soul were created to be for that individual.

I am not Catholic, Anglican, Presbyterian, Baptist or Reform. I am a Trinitarian Pentecostal/Quaker.

I can only answer for the doctrines we have in common.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 08:07 PM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
Yes, I would have to say there is a middle ground. But again, it depends on the particular denomination.

Reincarnation is the one thing that has not been part of Christian teaching. Resurrection has always been taught.


So is that middle ground only ever implied by Jesus with his mentioning their "rewards" - or is it actually spoken of in the Bible? If not, why would Christianity not make what you just told me, much clearer to everyone? I imagine it scared a lot of people into minimally being well-behaved believers. Sounds very politically motivated to me.

Given the similarities between what you describe and many other traditions, I can certainly see there is a basis for reincarnation in Christianity. And even being sent to hell is a kind of transmigration - especially since it equates to Earth in many ways. This is, after all, a place of suffering for most.


originally posted by: WarminIndy
What you call reincarnation, or transmigration of the soul, is not something we can say, because we believe that each person has their own soul that is individual to them. That the body and soul were created to be for that individual.



Right, I understand that the body-mind was considered a single unit in Jewish tradition, and God breathed life into it - so body-mind-spirit was inseparable. Whereas I don't see this is supported in what Jesus taught, especially in the esoteric initiation of the disciples by ascending to the Light above. For whatever it may be worth to you, this process of ascent is very much documented in various Eastern traditions and Western mysticism, and is mapped to the subtle anatomy of the body.

John 3:3
Jesus replied to him, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."

If the "born from above" is not the ascent of the spirit beyond the physical body, I don't know what is! This indicates that Jesus saw the soul or spirit as free of the body-mind unit that was traditionally believed. This of course supports transmigration of the soul.

Regardless of our beliefs, I hope we are in agreement that transcending oneself in communion with the Divine while we live, is our real purpose on Earth.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 08:09 PM
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a reply to: bb23108


Either this ascent is esoteric or it generates a lot of questions! I understand that people believe they are going to physically ascend, so it requires a lot of vague explanations to get beyond the sheer physical impossibility of this. Billions of bodies going into the skies? Am I missing something here?

The scriptures tell us that only the spirit survives the terrestrial death of the body.

1Corinthians_15:50 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Most people are victims of the movie industry and believe that people will simply disappear in a great rapture of this world. That is nonsense and not scriptural by any means. Firstly there are two gatherings of the human race as is described by the Apostle John. Neither of these has happened as yet.

The first gathering will be just before the Christ returns to this earth to govern the entire world for 1,000 years. This gathering entails only the justified people of the world. Prior to this gathering (resurrection) of the just, the world will have great famines and plagues and seven destructive events afflict all of the world. This is called the Great Tribulation or Jacobs Trouble. It is during this tribulation period when the gathering will occur. It is not known how the gathering will happen. Some believe it will be through natural disasters such as earth quakes wars etc. while others may believe that it is one great event but regardless of how this happens the terrestrial body will not ascend into the heavens.

After this first resurrection the Christ governs this world for 1,000 years. At the end of the 1,000 years reign there is a short span of unknown time and the second gathering (resurrection) occurs. This second resurrection is that of which Paul describes in our discussion of Thessalonians. This is the final event in which the entire world is destroyed. All people who are alive at this event will die and their spirits will stand in the white throne judgment.

In both events the human body is returned to its source which is this earth. The human body does not ascend into the celestial abode according to the Apostle John and his Revelation from the Christ Jesus.



posted on Apr, 23 2015 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy




Yes, but who assigned the parts of the body to those things? That is called metaphysics.


Metaphysics isn't the same as superstition. Allegory isn't the same as superstition. And, many atheists are into metaphysics and Kabbalah, belief in a supernatural being isn't a prerequisite.

I had an old car I used to call "Feet", because it broke down a lot, and I would say, "Feet don't fail me now" when it started chugging. Naming my car "Feet" was a kind of esoteric allegory for my relationship with my car, and as an extension to my own feet.

Such is the tree of life.




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