Losing my Religion

a reply to: undo

You're missing the point about atheism, I think.

Do you think Stalin believed in Leprechauns?

It's probably safe to assume, no he did not.

Since there is no word for someone who doesn't believe in leprechauns, let's coin one, just for the sake of discussion. Let's call Stalin an aleprachaunist.

Now let's make the absurd leap and call his regime,

"Alephrachaunist Communism"

Now let's make the connection that his lack in belief in leprechauns was responsible or somehow influential in his mass murders and other bad life choices.

Sounds incredibly stupid, no?

You're doing the same thing with atheist.

Now perhaps you're of the opinion godlessness is responsible for influencing people negatively. I disagree, but you are free to be of that mindset. But remember that not all atheists are pieces of crap like Stalin. Just as not all Christians are pieces of crap because of the inquisitions.

Could Stalin have been motivated by anti-theism? Possibly. But that is not the same thing as atheism. You will find plenty of atheists who are also anti-theists though.

Atheism has no rules or regulations. No feasts or scriptures. Nothing of the sort. Nothing about atheism leaves room for mass murdering etc. (Unlike religious texts). It is ONLY a label to describe a position of non belief!

On a related note. You may find this interesting.

Dangers of using the term atheist:

He makes some good points.

a reply to: Ghost147

what i'm saying is, the statistics for the amount of people who are religious on the entire planet, is much higher for women. when you have a world view which tends to state that religion should be done away with, you have to wrest it, mostly, from the minds and hearts, of women. when you have a group like isis, who claims to be religious but who are deliberately killing religious people of various kinds, you can bet the greater percentage of those they have killed are females. and if not, then they've been sold into slavery and will likely die shortly thereafter,.

pragmatism, while practical, leads invariably to what is called "gendercide" in modern societies. in places like japan, women have been pretty much phased out as being useful since they were replaced by internet porn.

women about to be sold into slavery by boko haram.

a reply to: undo

And again, what does this have to do with Science or Atheism?

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: undo

And again, what does this have to do with Science or Atheism?

pragmatism. it's expedient and pragmatic for our government, for example, to browbeat the hell out of modern day americans for slavery 200 years ago, whilst forming partners with nations who do crap like that - selling black women into slavery, is an example. women are a matter of pragmatism for secularism and atheism when conjoined with science. in times past, women have been treated poorly in western societies but it's nothing compared to what has happened to them globally, which is coming soon to a town near you

Either its too early or I really lost a focus and I am unable to find how all of this is connected to OP and this topic.

OP is not atheist, she still believes in..., let's call it 'something'.

True, I did post quite few links to prominent atheists, some of them even called militant atheist, not because they are calling for arms against religion, but because they decided to respond to all claims against disbelief and try to point religions for what they really are - products of human race fine tuned to control, manipulate and slow our progress. Dawkins would fit this criteria with his documentaries 'The Enemies of Reason' and 'Root of All Evil?' (I strongly suggest to everyone to look at those)

But what appears to me mistake, and sorry if is done on my part, is that you believe we have some sort of cult, religion. Sorry, no, we don't. Only thing that unite us is trust in science and disbelief in religion or existence of supreme being.

Now, what science and atheism have in common was best described by someone who does not even call himself Atheist and who tries to stay out of that questions, because he has all universe to worry about, and he finds that arguing religion is just unproductive - Dr. Tyson. Best to see this part of his video, where he puts number, and this is only for USA, word is much different all together, depending on country and technological level of country, and points to negative correlation between education and belief. There have been studies about this and by no means it means that less intelligent people believe in God, but reason he points this was different. (Will come soon to that) Here is video...



What Dr. Tyson really wanted to explain is following, Islam in times of Dark Ages (here is description what Dark Ages means - en.wikipedia.org... ) was center for science and education, medicine, astronomy... and once religious doctrine was enforced that negated science and progress, Islam stagnated for centuries to today level, where only few Muslims ever got Nobel Price on any field?! He tries to explain that we are now experiencing our disbelief in science and progress, and today you have science debunkers, some people are forming firm belief that science is responsible for all human suffering etc... yet scientists made our life twice as long as what it was life expectancy just few hundred years ago, we are finally able to reach other planets... and as Dr. Kaku once said, reason we need to explore universe and colonize other planets is simple, it is not smart to keep all your eggs in one basket.

National Geographic made interesting documentary, 'Evacuate Earth', and points scientific view at what would happen if we know imminent threat to our existence is coming. Please check it and tell me, do you think they portrayed religious folks correctly...



Sorry about whole post, I am writing this on side, and might be bit disconnected at times... Even I enjoy multitasking, sometimes its just too much to concentrate on everything... And as I just said, having first coffee... trying to clear my mind...

originally posted by: undo

pragmatism. it's expedient and pragmatic for our government, for example, to browbeat the hell out of modern day americans for slavery 200 years ago, whilst forming partners with nations who do crap like that - selling black women into slavery, is an example. women are a matter of pragmatism for secularism and atheism when conjoined with science. in times past, women have been treated poorly in western societies but it's nothing compared to what has happened to them globally, which is coming soon to a town near you

No need to repeat yourself, I simply do not see the connection you seem to believe is between a lack of belief in god, science and women's global issues.

The problem is that Atheism has absolutely no connection with anything else! The only commonality between one atheist to another atheist is their lack of believe in any gods. That is it. I can believe in ghosts, where other atheists would never accept it. I may feel that killing is morally outrageous in any regard, where as others feel that at times it could be acceptable. I could say that a woman should have the right to choose to keep a pregnancy or not, while others outright claim that abortions are an absolute no-go.

How can this be? Because there is no set rules to being an atheist. The only requirement is that of a lack of belief in a god.

Atheists don't even have to accept any scientific information or the scientific theory. Science and Atheism are completely separate things that have no compatible similarities. One deals with the study of how natural processes function and exist, where has the other is solely based on the existence of deities.

It just so happens to be coincidence that many atheists feel that science is a respectable form of discovery and knowledge about our universe. That certainly does not make it a requirement of atheism.

Honestly, it seems more like you're going off on a tangent about women's rights and hardships than anything else related to the topic at hand.

a reply to: SuperFrog

i like dr. tyson, always have. he's a bit condescending but i'm accustomed to being treated like a blight on the planet because of something some guy in a robe did 300 years ago. or being told i'm a subspecies, intellectually, because some guy in tennessee said something someone with scientific clout, disagreed with. or being told i'm a spawn of satan because my skin is white, or a whore because i'm a christian, or a fat, idiotic war monger because i'm american, and the list goes on. if i didn't know better, i'd swear that it sounds like people like me are being targeted for genocide. sure seems like several of the stages are already present.

this is a matter of scientific pragmatism because the social engineers realized they could manipulate whole populations via mass dissemination of information.

a reply to: Ghost147

science + pragmatism, unfettered by ideas like the absolute sanctity of human life, and driven forward by the learned that humans are just animals, capable of being corralled, trained like beasts of burden and eradicated when malfunctional or less than optimal. example: chinese females being eradicated by the millions for the sake of population modification.

I fervently clung with all the faith I could muster, regardless of the truth that was hitting me between the eyes like a hot iron.

What a wonderfully written sentence summing up the actions and feelings of confirmation bias and blind sided thinking. I've been off ATS for a few days and feel better for it but to log on and read such a sentence... Inspiring. I love words and how they can be put together to form brilliant meanings. Sorry, a bit off-topic but couldn't help myself.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Ghost147

science + pragmatism, unfettered by ideas like the absolute sanctity of human life, and driven forward by the learned that humans are just animals, capable of being corralled, trained like beasts of burden and eradicated when malfunctional or less than optimal. example: chinese females being eradicated by the millions for the sake of population modification.

I see no Science in your example! You can shout it time after time all you want, you still aren't explaining why the governments choice to baby-boom-then-halt has anything to do with science. You're drawing these massively vague similarities, which really have no relation whatsoever, and molding it to these horrible incidences as if you're simply trying your hardest to blame and belittle something that is intrinsically pure and innocent. It's almost as if you hate science simply because it doesn't adhere to your belief systems or views of the world.

Here is what the definition of science is, as you clearly have some warped view of it:

Science:

1.
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws:
the mathematical sciences.
2.
systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
3.
any of the branches of natural or physical science.
4.
systematized knowledge in general.
5.
knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
6.
a particular branch of knowledge.
7.
skill, especially reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.
8.
Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge"[2]) is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.

Can you please show me in any peer reviewed scientific study where any scientist said that any human should be are are trained like beasts of burden and eradicated when malfunctional or less than optimal. This notion is absolutely absurd nonsense that you're picking out of thin air. I don't know where you managed to come to the conclusion of such ridiculous concepts, but the fact is, Science's only existence is to further our knowledge of the natural universe. That - is - it

And please, for my sanity's sake, don't just say the same thing again with no further explanation and elaboration.

ghost147

perhaps you're right. but i did mention science + pragmatism. these things are not bad by themselves, but become so when the value of those it may effect, is lowered to that of the neighbor's cow herd.

originally posted by: undo
ghost147

perhaps you're right. but i did mention science + pragmatism. these things are not bad by themselves, but become so when the value of those it may effect, is lowered to that of the neighbor's cow herd.

Are you saying atheists don't have values?

"Your petitioners are atheists, and they define their lifestyle as follows. An atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth – for all men together to enjoy. An atheist accepts that he can get no help through prayer, but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help lead to a life of fulfillment."

atheists.org...

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

Bad means good these days, Wicked means good, White Witches are accepted....even though they are still witches and deny GOD, Gay people (and I don't judge, I have gay friends and I treat them normally), they are now accepted and straights are ridiculed.

No.

"Straights" are not ridiculed. Not in the least. (Religious fanatics, however, are, and for good reason.)

And "White Witches" (I am one) do not deny "GOD". We simply see the 'unseen' differently - but, whatever....this is not the thread in which to make that point.

"Gays" are people. "They" feel everything, just like you do: pain, rejection, ostracization, fear, hope, perseverance, dignity.......

Who are you to judge?

I am not judging. I have gay friends actually. God judges. If you want references that straights are being ostracized, and gays ascended ...ask me, and I will deliver proof, in droves. Just ask.

You do realize that if you consider Homosexual people as lesser than you for whatever reason, then that is in fact a judgement that you place on them.

Read again. in this post I said STRAIGHTS are being ostracized these days...that gays are ascended....that is not putting myself above them, if anything,.......below, according to society.. I also said that I had gay friends. That doesn't constitute my being above them either. Not sure what you're talking about at all.

Here, I'll go into more depth

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

Bad means good these days, Wicked means good, White Witches are accepted....even though they are still witches and deny GOD, Gay people (and I don't judge, I have gay friends and I treat them normally), they are now accepted and straights are ridiculed. A third of the waters will be poisoned...Fukishima has made sure this has happened. People in the last days will curse GOD....this is an every day occurrence, whereas before it was never heard of. I have countless examples.

"Bad means good" - "Gay people are now being accepted". That is clear judgement if I ever saw any. Perhaps you don't realize this, but saying those things is placing homosexuals at a lower level than you are placing yourself. Thus judging them. You attempt to save yourself immediately after by claiming "But I have gay friends and treat them normally!", as if that's some sort of justification for you to also tie them in with "Bad means good these days"

Honestly, I think that is quite delusional of you.

Here we go again. All of those things that I pointed out are the exact opposite of the way things used to be. I did not make that change...society did and all of them are ``FACTS`` not my personal judgement. Please tell me that you don`t remember a time when gay people had to `hide in the closet` (I believe the term was), for fear of ridicule. I am guessing that I may be quite a few years older than you if you don`t remember that black people and gay people were ridiculed for quite some time and gay people at least had to hide the fact that they were gay.

THAT WAS NOT MY JUDGEMENT, it was the judgement of decades of society...IT HAPPENED. I merely pointed out, that things that once were, are now the exact opposite. Its not a judgement....its FACT. Get it right, before YOU cast judgement on me further. It seems that instead of reading my post for what it is, you seem to add your personal emotions into the mix, and start assuming things. Maybe you`re the one who is delusional. Why are you so offended anyway?

a reply to: Annee

no, i'm saying atheists are scientific pragmatists, who devalue other people to the level of an animal, based on their usefulness to science

originally posted by: undo
ghost147

perhaps you're right. but i did mention science + pragmatism. these things are not bad by themselves, but become so when the value of those it may effect, is lowered to that of the neighbor's cow herd.

I see where you're trying to get at, but it still does not shine science in a dark light. A perfect example would be within chemistry. As our understanding of it became more vast, our weaponry became more intricate and deadly. On the other hand, we have better means of cooking food and understanding the what is necessary for preserving them better (refrigeration). Cleaning has advanced so much in the past 100 years and saved the lives of millions because of it. Medicines are made and discovered due to a number of scientific branches.

We know more about our planet, about how we live and how we can improve it, we understand more about our universe all do to science.

The applications that some people use from resulting scientific findings does not mean science is the problem. The people who apply scientific findings in negative ways are the issue. Science is neutral in every aspect, and there for cannot be blamed.

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

Here we go again. All of those things that I pointed out are the exact opposite of the way things used to be. I did not make that change...society did and all of them are ``FACTS`` not my personal judgement. Please tell me that you don`t remember a time when gay people had to `hide in the closet` (I believe the term was), for fear of ridicule. I am guessing that I may be quite a few years older than you if you don`t remember that black people and gay people were ridiculed for quite some time and gay people at least had to hide the fact that they were gay.

THAT WAS NOT MY JUDGEMENT, it was the judgement of decades of society...IT HAPPENED. I merely pointed out that things that were once ...one way.....are now the exact opposite. Its not judgement....its FACT. Get it right, before YOU cast judgement on me any longer. It seems that instead of reading my post for what it is, you seem to add your personal emotions into the mix, and start assuming things. Maybe you`re the one who is delusional. Why are you so offended anyway?

I wasn't implying that society doesn't act the way you claim. What I was saying is that this exact quote from you is you judging people.


"Bad means good these days...Gay people...they are now accepted"

When you say things like this, it implies that they shouldn't be accepted. I assume you believe in god and the bible? (please correct me if I'm wrong). What do you believe the bible teaches about homosexuality?

This isn't an issue about society.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Annee

no, i'm saying atheists are scientific pragmatists, who devalue other people to the level of an animal, based on their usefulness to science

And here I thought we were making some progress. Guess you aren't reading any of our comments after all.

I can walk up to any atheist and ask them a number of questions in what they believe in:

~ Do you believe that abortion should be acceptable in society?
~ Do you believe women should be considered equal?
~ Do you believe ghosts exist?
~ Do you believe Aliens Exist?
~ Do you accept the scientific theory of evolution?

I can get any variation of answers from any atheist here or in person. This is possible because atheism doesn't apply to anything other than the lack of belief in a god. If you see a commonality between one atheist to another it is merely coincidental. The only requirement that is needed to be an atheist is to not believe in any gods.

That is it...

Why is this so difficult to conceive for many people?

a reply to: Ghost147

well if you're so logical and intelligent, why don't you accept that these

~ Do you believe that abortion should be acceptable in society?
~ Do you believe women should be considered equal?
~ Do you believe ghosts exist?
~ Do you believe Aliens Exist?
~ Do you accept the scientific theory of evolution?

are also answered differently by different christians, even within the same denomination of christianity. lol
i'll tell you why: because we are each unique individuals, of immeasurable value, that can't truthfully be degraded to animal or to one homogenous mindset. our only problem is we are all still mostly in the dark about the true nature of reality and dimensionality, etc, and yet have the audacity to force our own views on others based on the limited knowledge we do have. i think jesus said it best: "forgive them, cause they're clueless" (paraphrased. hehehe)

I watched the video that you linked concerning Paul.

If you couldn't see through the obvious ignorance in that video, then you never really had a grasp on the Bible anyway.

I left a comment on Youtube for that video, if you want to read more of why it's so obvious that the video is not research at all for you, but it, just like everything else you linked, is very neglectful of intellectual honesty, knowledge, or wisdom.

I'm sorry that you're hurting.

a reply to: Ghost147

Well, I can see where you would get that implication. It depends on the filter you`re viewing the context of the sentence through. When I said "Bad means good these days...Gay people...they are now accepted" ...I meant that people use to say `Well, that`s a good thing, or that's a good tattoo`, now people say...``That`s Bad man!`` or ``That`s a Bad tattoo``.
In reference to the gays not being accepted, I was simply saying that gay`s used to NOT be accepted...and now they are. There was really nothing to read into there other than the fact. If one is viewing this through a negative filter.....yes, one could imply that I was making the statement because I did not agree with gays being equal. Not the case.

As I said, I have a couple of gay friends. As for believing in God...yes I do, but I try to treat everyone equal and give them a chance no matter what they are. Ghosts? I watch ghost stories on TV and enjoy them, but have never seen a ghost, so I am open-minded on that one. Equal rights for women....yes, but only equal rights. I despise Feminists and what they stand for, because they ride the coat tails of REAL women who don`t mind working for the same dollar and being equated with men. Feminists are abusers of the affirmative action card, and continually use it over and over, to control and manipulate women and men.

They believe that Feminist = Woman, when Woman = Woman, ...and that women should be ashamed to do what they want, using their own minds, say if they choose to be a stay at home mom, thus not choosing to break from tradition. I don`t even have to mention the disdain and hatred they have for men, and they act on it every chance they get, even attacking little boys. So, everything else, I hope we have worked out and now understand each other....the last statement about feminists? That is a judgement, and I own up to it. They are hated BY me, even more than they hate me.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

You know if you don't use the reply feature whoever you are replying to probably won't even know you made a comment to them.