Losing my Religion

evidence. the little numbers after words in these verses, are strongs numbers. strongs is a concordance that allows you to see where the original hebrew words used in the verses, derive from. you can click the link below to investigate the etymologies and original hebrew of the words with numbers after them, in other words.

where the word "man" appears, the original hebrew was adam. so when you see man in these two verses, insert the word adam instead. it will help alleviate confusion. where you see the word "god" or the word "his", insert the word elohim instead. that will also help, since elohim is a plural word and can then help to define elohim as males and females , not one hermaphrodite. in other words, there is a singular "royal we" elohim (god), who is creating adam males and females in the image of plural elohim (gods)

Gen 1:26

And God H430 said, H559 Let us make H6213 man H120 in our image, H6754 after our likeness: H1823 and let them have dominion H7287 over the fish H1710 of the sea, H3220 and over the fowl H5775 of the air, H8064 and over the cattle, H929 and over all the earth, H776 and over every creeping thing H7431 that creepeth H7430 upon the earth. H776


Gen 1:27

So God H430 created H1254 man H120 in his own image, H6754 in the image H6754 of God H430 created H1254 he him; male H2145 and female H5347 created H1254 he them.



see this link

a reply to: misskat1

Just remember that Jesus still loves you. He will always love you, just like He loves all of us. I am here, as are other Christians, who will be more than happy to chat with you and pray with or for you, if you would like us to. God bless.

Religion is a tool for development not the slave driver that clerics have created to control people.


Most religions are practically all clerical creations, not the original teachings of the founders.


These religious “experts” clerics have tainted the philosophy of religion to be a tyrannical fear based dogma that the original founders never expounded.


Religion is supposed to be a servant of human beings not the other way around as the clerics have invented


Originally it was merely a foundation science for self control and the idea of reigning in the excesses of ones lower and selfish nature in order to concentrate on higher ideals and higher modes of consciousness.

On one level, that of good versus evil or morality and ethics, it was based on the conscience of the human being—doing good to others and forbidding damage to others.

The other or esoteric level was based on the pursuit of higher consciousness and awareness and to be able to control our own destiny through higher states of mind and the acquisition of true happiness and bliss through the higher stations of consciousness one can attain in “Paradise.”

This condition paradise or “heaven” is a metaphysical station of consciousness that humans lost in primordial times that this world is only a corrupted reflection of…

So to this OP I say it’s not religion that you have practiced or believed but a creation of clerical dogma that has polluted the original intent and philosophy of religion.


Now that you have seen this you may be able to understand the true religion as taught by people like Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Lao Tzu and their true followers and understand that what is in conventional religion is far from what these great men taught originally

a reply to: misskat1

I was raised a Jehovah Witness, so when I walked away, I also lost all my family.

Not that you need reinforcement that religion is more destructive and limiting than good, but next time you feel pulled back to religious dogma, examine that statement of yours above... nothing that divides and promotes judgement of others is "holy."

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: whooknows

Just like the song "ohh life, its bigger, bigger than you, and you are not me." You are in the corner Losing your Religion, it just hasnt dawned on you yet.

A good number of the Christians that I have come by here at ATS are the sort that really don't buy into so much of the religious official position traditional line. Maybe they have lost some of there religion.

Be that as it may and we are all experts on church shortcomings and failures how do your feel about Jesus Christ Himself?

You know all the prophets in the OT were outside the loop, persecuted by the establishment religious and political. Didn't you ever notice that?

So how do you feel about Jesus? Do you think He is worth your time even if you don't belong to any organized body or religion?

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: undo

In all your years of research, you've come to some interesting conclusions, to say the least. So far I haven't heard anything from you I haven't heard before. You just seem to have mashed a bunch of stuff together and formed something unique from it all. I'm wondering how other religions and mythologies/creation stories play into your theories/beliefs. Such as Hinduism, or any number of Native American traditions.

well while i was researching the abzu=abyss=bottomless pit=wormhole concept, i ran across native american info, both in north america and in south and central america. the most interesting were the inca texts, like the coming of viracocha, and the data on the hopi. i found several similar references in the inca texts, however, i wasn't sure what to make of them. for example, the text was translated by a catholic priest at the time, and i haven't been able to see the original documents nor do i know if they would even be translatable without a living inca from that timeframe, to translate them.

the hopi had some interesting information as well, but since i don't have a history of hopi texts to investigate that would help flesh out how the information evolved and where it may have derived from, it's a bit difficult to say for sure.

the ancient chinese texts are even more of a conundrum, primarily because all their ancient history was wiped out around 3000 bc by some new ruler. the only hint i have found in my short time investigating, is the mention of cush (a son of noah)

it's been enough of a challenge as it is to track it thru the near and middle east and parts of europe.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: misskat1

I dont believe that the bible is pagan and false.

Neither do I, an atheist.

There is always reason why someone wrote something. What those writings really mean is a different story.

Interpretation is the issue.

Original text transcribed by Novice Monks. Of course they're gonna see everything as through God's eye.

Then compilation of Chosen text.

The bible is Man speaking. Then man speaking for man, repeat, repeat, repeat.

I will add however, that everyone here has pretty much made a choice.

That does not apply to a child assimilated into a God belief by its parents (or other).

Denying God is like committing an act against about 90% of the rest of the world. I expect there are many who lack belief, but can't make that final step.

Choice: unless you're talking about choice before physical birth (I'm not quite sure).

I am not an atheist. I have been on this earth a bit too long, and I have been privy to way too many snippets, to believe that everyone of them were strictly by accident. If they were, then I have fall into the category, of one of the luckiest women on Earth. As much as I would like to embrace that moniker, the truth is, I am not even a little bit special. I am observant and I am intuitive, but so is every other person on this planet, so those two things alone don't even come close to making different or special.

I am 67, been on earth a while too. Had OBEs and other experiences since first memory. Still lack belief in a God.

Special? Different? I have no idea what you are referring to.

I think you missed it.

I guess in my verbose, round about way, you didn't see that I was agreeing with you.

An atheist and a non-atheist can actually agree on something. Am I breaking the rules?

I am pretty good at doing that. I read somewhere that rules where made to be broken. At least it gives me an excuse to use when needed.

OK. Still not quite sure. Way too many, that are not sincere as I believe you are, try to be "clever" in how they word things. I tend to be very direct.

People are people - - people are their heart. I believe there are many God believers who follow the message of love and don't believe the scriptures are accurate. Honestly, it doesn't take much gray matter to understand a message can be distorted from one person to another - - let alone thousands of years - - ancient language translation and interpretations.

dp

a reply to: misskat1

If Christianity was a big part of your life, it is likely that it has made you what you are today, and sits background to many of your own experiences. Without regrets—that's how a chapter ends and a new one begins.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: SuperFrog

atum=adam

nun=abzu=abyss (the e.nun of enki was also called the e.abzu)

---
god raises dry land (the mountain of creation) from the abyss (egyptian)

god floats over the abyss and the water recedes to reveal dry land (hebrew)

god raises his temple from the abyss and floats it over the water like a lofty mountain (sumerian)

---
the hebrew version is an amalgamate of the egyptian and the sumerian because moses received both hamitic instruction and sumerian instruction.

Please tell me you can't be serious mixing everything possible just because in your opinion it sounds a like...

Firstly, in ancient Egypt there were several stories, but non of them tells that 'God' created mountain from Abyss as you claim. Story goes like this, out of rive Nu that was chaos emerged firstly mountain called benben, and THEN appears first GOD - Atum. Now, next part is mostly misinterpreted, how he created first 2 of his children and how he created stars, in original text is through masturbation. Just tell me, how can you even think to connect that to Bible story or any other religion?! (unless you bend and change story, like you did)

Now, sumerian story...

In the first days when everything needed was brought into being,
In the first days when everything needed was properly nourished,
When bread was baked in the shrines of the land,
And bread was tasted in the homes of the land,
When heaven had moved away from the earth,
And earth had separated from heaven,
And the name of man was fixed;
When the Sky God, An, had carried off the heavens,
And the Air God, Enlil, had carried off the earth

More about Sumerian creation/origin story you can read from following link: faculty.gvsu.edu...

As I already said, please in future support your post with some evidence, some real archeological texts and some work from real archeologist.

This also should be separated from this threat, as has really not much to do with OP's original post and should be in appropriate subforum.

a reply to: misskat1

good, you have become an investigator of your own way, keep at it, don't let up, if the thought of regret comes, or that of shame, investigate it, be aware of it, don't get caught up in it, investigate it with a cool mind

it is very hard to be liberated from the shackles of a controlling religion, I know first hand, but once you start to see with clarity, you will know that it was a great milestone in your path, to come to question things for yourself, and to try and find answers for yourself

a reply to: SuperFrog

nu or nun, the dark swirling chaos = abyss
notice it says, out of these waters ROSE atum, he created himself. he created a hill on which he could stand, and out of the chaotic abyss, it rises as well. same story as genesis chapter 1 verse 1-2 and the sumerian enki-ea, raising the e.abzu up from the abyss and floating it over the water like a lofty mountain.

when it says atum created himself, it is actually elohim creating copies of elohim. so originally, atum was equivalent of elohim. i traced this to the sumerian kings list. the first on the list is alulim, who i believe is the equivalent of adam/atum and later, also elohim. when moses received the egyptian version from pharaoh's scholars, they would've told him atum created atum, which is to say that the atum male and female copies, were named after their creator, same as the biblical account, when elohim makes copies of elohim. that's what all the self-created stuff is in egyptian texts.

moses would've also been told the sumerian-akkadian version via his hebrew mother, which would've had the alulim / elohim version. to untangle this so people wouldn't be confused, he gave the atum/adam name to the created only, and the alulim/elohim name to the creator.

I think I can understand where you're coming from, OP. Wishing you well as you continue moving from darkness to light to Truth; whatever that is for you. I found the following book very helpful in understanding the one true purpose of the original church: to dominate the masses, most especially militant jews who were under roman rule in the second half of the first century.
Caesar's Messiah - The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus by Joseph Atwill

Love and unity.

Have you read Herman Hesse's "Siddhartha"?

Also, try reading anything by Jamie Sams, and there's Anne Cameron's "daughters of Copperwoman" for Native American spirituality. Everything is related. a reply to: misskat1

a reply to: Ghost147

I thought this would be an appropriate place to cut in. I am someone in my late 20's that was pretty much raised in a Christian household for the majority of my life. However, in my early 20's up until recently, I have not lived the way the Bible says I should live. I've made terrible, shelfish decisions which have caused me to suffer greatly (things including my physical, mental and emotional health; loss of pride and good name and have now been left with a lower quality of life.) The public humiliation and excommunication from the church have taken quite a toll on me. I've become a better (but still have a ways to go) person and I've also become more open-minded to non-religious ideals. I've tried to break away from religion late last year, but fear of the consequences of doing so led me to jumping back into a faith, where some of it's members tell me there's no hoe for me and that I'm destined for hell. I find myself at that crossroads again wanting to break away from the mental anguish of these beliefs and the fear of what will happen if I do so. But then again, if I'm doomed anyways... what does it matter at this point right?

a reply to: WhatNow2015 you have to question a belief system that blackmails you with eternal doom for stopping to believe in it.

a reply to: WhatNow2015

I've had some very interesting conversations with individuals just like yourself. Your conclusion that "well they are saying I'm doomed either way" only justifies your ability to choose; in my opinion. Ultimately, whether you decide to follow a faith or not is up to you. Everyone here is lending their own personal opinions and experiences - some even have valid evidence to back up the claims they make. Nevertheless, your final conclusion will be determined by your mind alone as an individual.

All I can say is that you should take the time to research whatever you are currently believing. Don't simply follow because others do so. Learn both sides of the story, and never look at information from one single source - too many things are written with a bias in mind.

Draw your conclusions through what you've learned, not what you're being told.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

Bad means good these days, Wicked means good, White Witches are accepted....even though they are still witches and deny GOD, Gay people (and I don't judge, I have gay friends and I treat them normally), they are now accepted and straights are ridiculed.

No.

"Straights" are not ridiculed. Not in the least. (Religious fanatics, however, are, and for good reason.)

And "White Witches" (I am one) do not deny "GOD". We simply see the 'unseen' differently - but, whatever....this is not the thread in which to make that point.

"Gays" are people. "They" feel everything, just like you do: pain, rejection, ostracization, fear, hope, perseverance, dignity.......

Who are you to judge?

I am not judging. I have gay friends actually. God judges. If you want references that straights are being ostracized, and gays ascended ...ask me, and I will deliver proof, in droves. Just ask.

You do realize that if you consider Homosexual people as lesser than you for whatever reason, then that is in fact a judgement that you place on them.

Read again. in this post I said STRAIGHTS are being ostracized these days...that gays are ascended....that is not putting myself above them, if anything,.......below, according to society.. I also said that I had gay friends. That doesn't constitute my being above them either. Not sure what you're talking about at all.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: SuperFrog

nu or nun, the dark swirling chaos = abyss
notice it says, out of these waters ROSE atum, he created himself. he created a hill on which he could stand, and out of the chaotic abyss, it rises as well. same story as genesis chapter 1 verse 1-2 and the sumerian enki-ea, raising the e.abzu up from the abyss and floating it over the water like a lofty mountain.

No, it does not. One of story of creation only is close, but order of creation is wrongly presented on that youtube video. Also note, this is ONLY one version of how live was created, and those stories in Ancient Egypt were localized, each part of ancient Egypt had different version of story.

To the Egyptians, the journey began with the creation of the world and the universe out of darkness and swirling chaos. Once there was nothing but endless dark water without form or purpose. Out of this chaos (`Nu’) rose the primordial hill, known as the Ben-Ben, upon which stood the great god Atum (or, in some versions of the myth, Ptah). Atum looked upon the nothingness and recognized his aloneness and so he mated with his own shadow to give birth to two children, Shu (god of air, whom Atum spat out) and Tefnut (goddess of moisture, whom Atum vomited out). Shu gave to the early world the principles of life while Tefnut contributed the principles of order. Leaving their father on the Ben-Ben, they set out to establish the world. In time, Atum became concerned because his children were gone so long and so removed his eye and sent it in search of them. While his eye was gone, Atum sat alone on the hill in the midst of chaos and contemplated eternity. Shu and Tefnut returned with the eye of Atum (later associated with the Udjat eye, the Eye of Ra, or the All-Seeing Eye) and their father, grateful for their safe return, shed tears of joy. These tears, dropping onto the dark, fertile earth of the Ben-Ben, gave birth to men and women.

Source: www.ancient.eu...

Now, note how different this story is from creation story of different part of ancient Egypt.

In the beginning there was only the Nun: the great celestial waters of the Unmanifest; the depths of the nighttime sky. Swimming within this primordial Deep were the mighty Ogdoad: eight Gods who consisted of four Serpents, and four Frogs. There names were Nun and Nunet, deities of the watery abyss; Heh and Hehet, deities of infinite space; Kek and Keket, deities of darkness; and Amon and Amonet, deities of the invisible. These primordial Gods swam within the Waters, guarding the Great Egg that incubated the Creator.

In time, the Egg began to hatch. It split into two halves, dividing the waters of the Nun into the upper and lower, and making between them a space wherein the Creator could fashion the world.

From the Egg arose a single blue Lotus. It rose high above the darkness of the abyss, and opened it's great petals. Within it's golden heart rested a beautiful young God, the Creator Amen-Re, with one single finger pressed against His lips in Silence.

Light streamed from the body of this Divine Child, banishing darkness to the far reaches of the universe. Like a phoenix with flaming plumage He arose, uttering a cry that shattered the eternal silence. This was the first sound- the first Word- and that Word manifested as a living God. Thoth was His name: the Self-Created, the Logos, Wisdom.

How in the world did you mix that with Genesis?!

1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

NIV BIble

when it says atum created himself, it is actually elohim creating copies of elohim. so originally, atum was equivalent of elohim. i traced this to the sumerian kings list. the first on the list is alulim, who i believe is the equivalent of adam/atum and later, also elohim. when moses received the egyptian version from pharaoh's scholars, they would've told him atum created atum, which is to say that the atum male and female copies, were named after their creator, same as the biblical account, when elohim makes copies of elohim. that's what all the self-created stuff is in egyptian texts.

You can't make such a conclusion without supporting evidence. You can believe all you want, that aliens created all, but without good evidence this is still just belief, not archeology or history as you put it. To me is just mind blowing that someone could even consider this being origin of world... after all we learned through science, from creation of our little planet to creation of life and its evolution. Please note, none of creationist stories, including Bible one does not mention God creating extinct animals first for simple reason, people creating those had no idea they existed on earth.

moses would've also been told the sumerian-akkadian version via his hebrew mother, which would've had the alulim / elohim version. to untangle this so people wouldn't be confused, he gave the atum/adam name to the created only, and the alulim/elohim name to the creator.

Same moses that moved sea water to cross Red Sea and from Exodus for witch we don't have any supporting evidence. Also note, Egyptians have no record of any of those events, while we know there were good record keepers.

I really hope you start providing supportive evidence, and something better then given youtube video.

And from the Great Buddha:

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it"...