Are you a Patriot?

I am not going to beat around the bush here, and I am sure this thread will bring in some hate, although I hope we can have a civil discussion.

If yes is your answer, explain how you can support genocide and theft please.

If you don't believe the Americans stole this land then committed genocide against the American Indians, how exactly would you describe what took place, and how do you justify it now?

Basically I am asking how you can support a country that stole it's land, and murdered it's inhabitants, because I am ashamed on my country. It's not even my country, I am from Europe, as are most of us.

Please try and keep this as civil as possible, and share your thoughts.

a reply to: roncoallstar

Can you name me one country that hasn't changed its borders/stolen land/had war with its neighbors?

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: roncoallstar

Can you name me one country that hasn't changed its borders/stolen land/had war with its neighbors?

That is the way you justify it?

Changing borders is one thing. Going out of your way across an ocean and exterminating the people is not even in the same ballpark. Are you saying North America is Europes neighbor?

a reply to: roncoallstar

Um, okay.

I guess (according to you then) that Canadians can be patriotic.

originally posted by: roncoallstar

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: roncoallstar

Can you name me one country that hasn't changed its borders/stolen land/had war with its neighbors?

That is the way you justify it?

Changing borders is one thing. Going out of your way across an ocean and exterminating the people is not even in the same ballpark. Are you saying North America is Europes neighbor?

Not at all.

You set the parameters, not I.

a reply to: roncoallstar

I am indeed a patriot tried and true. There is no excuse for the genocide that took place, if anyone deserves land and reparations and the ability to fully self govern it is the American Indians. With that said all land is stolen land, ALL land. Since the beginning of time land has been stolen but it's our founding documents and the progress and implementation of these documents that has led us to prosperity and freedom at least amongst our self's.

originally posted by: roncoallstar

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: roncoallstar

Can you name me one country that hasn't changed its borders/stolen land/had war with its neighbors?

That is the way you justify it?

You didn't answer his question. Don't worry, we'll wait. As to your question, there are many things about America that are great and quite a few that are not. Do I love my country? Yes.

originally posted by: roncoallstar

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: roncoallstar

Can you name me one country that hasn't changed its borders/stolen land/had war with its neighbors?

That is the way you justify it?

Canada was created the same as the US - Europeans coming across the pond in big boats and conquering the natives slowly pushing them off their lands in the name of progress........

Try again.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: roncoallstar

Um, okay.

I guess (according to you then) that Canadians can be patriotic.

Canadians didn't murder the Aboriginal people that were there. Are you seriously comparing the conflicts in Canada to the mass genocide of American Indians?

a reply to: roncoallstar

Any group would take adjacent land if its population was exploding and it was able to. That is human nature. The Native Americans would have done it too, if the situation had been opposite.

Genocide is not done by a country, it is done by the individuals who kill. Like during revolution or civil war, the country is not only one side or the other, the patriots are on both sides.

Nations are the current mode of political organization. Nation states have only been around since gunpowder made large armies a matter of money and population. When armies are no longer useful or manageable or economically feasible, nations will dissolve into local governments.

Canadian Genocide

I stand corrected. Apparently Canada is just as guilty. Disgusting.

a reply to: roncoallstar

If you want "justification" it is because you are choosing to ignore that humans by their nature are nomadic and as such dont have land to steal or claim or take away.

There are no people on earth whose ancestors did not steal land from someone according to your definition.

Technically, we committed genocide against the Neanderthal and stole their land. How much time does living somewhere constitute the land being yours?

The native Americans of the Aztec empire were from the north. They stole the land of the southern tribes when they formed the triple alliance and waged a war of conquest against them. The Aztecs were from the north, yet they made their empire in central america after enslaving everyone there. Was that land theirs when Europeans came to live there?

I suggest you read some more history before you try to "lay it down".

Also, why dont you leave and go back to Europe?

You may be ashamed of your country but I am ashamed of you.....so who decides who is right? You or me?

originally posted by: roncoallstar

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: roncoallstar

Um, okay.

I guess (according to you then) that Canadians can be patriotic.

Canadians didn't murder the Aboriginal people that were there. Are you seriously comparing the conflicts in Canada to the mass genocide of American Indians?

You defined the parameters to patriotism.

I simply asked questions.

I'm surprised to learn that Canadians didn't kill native Americans. But good on them.

Personally, I've never killed any either.

originally posted by: roncoallstar
Canadian Genocide

I stand corrected. Apparently Canada is just as guilty. Disgusting.

History.

It's a hoot, isn't it?

a reply to: roncoallstar

If you dig far enough into anything you're going to come up with things like this. Like others have said, there's no way to research real history without getting very, very bloody. It's happened since man started walking and took over the cave of the folks down the hill and it still happens today. Sometimes it's a more subtle, cultural, type destruction where a group is integrated to the point that virtually everything that made the original group themselves is gone......sometimes it's much more direct..

a reply to: tadaman

You may be ashamed of your country but I am ashamed of you.....so who decides what is right? You or me?


Guilt decides, Shame, resentment for things none of us took part in and many actively seek to protect these cultures and preserve these traditions. I was at the casino today in Durant Oklahoma and me being a southern boy naturally i have a little Indian in me Choctaw and Cherokee. Anyway there was this Indian woman with braided hair on both sides and my God was she beautiful, but that's beside the point the Indians are making out well; yes their culture was assimilated but not fully, i believe they are happy a shameful history perhaps but a proud people who obviously are survivors. Interestingly enough i am registered with the Choctaw nations and can receive free healthcare in Oklahoma but i don't take advantage of it one because i'm very Irish and Sicilian so pretty white and two i'm a Texan.

a reply to: roncoallstar

Yes,

I can support the ideas of the founders and the vision of a land of freedom.

Did bad stuff happen, yeah, just like in EVERY part of the world.


Was a single person reading your troll thread even born at the time and participate in any atrocities? I bet the answer is no.

Do you have some "ancestry guilt complex" that you are trying to spread. If so, I am quite immune since my ancestors were Roman. They fought, conquered, and fragged everyone in Europe, North Africa and the Middle East.

No guilt

So, Yes, I love what America became and the values it held for decades.

I bet you are a leftest.... lefties seem to hate everything and everyone not of their mindset and also seem to have some self loathing issues. Today's Progressive Liberalism is a mental disease.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: roncoallstar

Can you name me one country that hasn't changed its borders/stolen land/had war with its neighbors?

Iceland.


www.visionofhumanity.org...#/page/indexes/global-peace-index

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: roncoallstar

Can you name me one country that hasn't changed its borders/stolen land/had war with its neighbors?

Easter Island?