No, I'm not saying nothing. Where did Muhammad come into this?

There's one huge difference between the Prophet and the Popes... Muhammad was sent by God, the Pope only thinks he was.

Calm down, guys. Homosexuality is not "unnatural" -- if by that you mean "something that isn't done in nature."

As any dog breeder or cat breeder or breeder of other domestic animals can tell you, many animals ARE bisexual or homosexual. This is a big problem if you buy a breeding male animal who only gets aroused by other males of the species and has no more interest in the females than they do in a telephone pole. And I'm sure some of you have had dogs who would only mount male dogs. That's not dominance; that's sex.

Furthermore, everyone's acting like the only people doing this are Catholic priests and that ALL Catholic priests do it.

Piffle, I sez. Go look at your newspaper. Better yet, go look at the local Sex Offenders list (it'll be on your municipal website.) Count the number of Regular Guys who are having sex with little 3 year old girls and boys (we have one, and he's out after serving his sentence... I have heard that these were his grandkids...) Now, look at the records and see how many were Catholic priests.

Then look at the number of newspaper accounts about Protestant clergy running brothels/sex rings, or having sex with other men or women. In most cases, they just go elsewhere and nobody knows that there was a scandal in their past.

No religion is immune from it. No area of the world is immune from it. The Catholics didn't "invent" it and priests are not the only ones practicing this. HETEROSEXUAL MEN are the greatest abusers (look at your local "scumbag list" if you don't believe me.)

Open your eyes, read a few newspapers, check some sources, eh? You might find the notion of gay sex a turnoff (lesbian sex creeps me out), but this is no reason to treat gays or lesbians as though they were monsters (I have both lesbian and gay friends and one lesbian and one gay in my family.)

Originally posted by Illmatic67
No, I'm not saying nothing. Where did Muhammad come into this?

There's one huge difference between the Prophet and the Popes... Muhammad was sent by God, the Pope only thinks he was.

Yes and a christian would say Mohammad was a mad man who hallucinated while in the desert.

You can't judge Illmantic. Why should Pope Paul go to hell, there's been a hell of alot worse popes than him. What real bad stuff as he done, that you know off.

That comment just showed how immature you are, putting yourself in the firing line to have your own religion critisized in return.

Also in reply to your post - a gay Moslem is not a real moslem, well thats only ture in your mind, in the gay moslem's mind he thinks he is a real moslem. The only one who knows for sure is Allah. Not you . But the same can be said about the Catholic Bishop, or any christian or Jew that is a homosexual . They are not real.
But, judge not least you be judged. Two wrongs dont make a right. You people judging these homosexuals will only bring Gods Judgement on yourselves. The homosexuals does not judge the hetrosexual.

Any way if your not homosexual whats the problem? Are you all so homophobic that you simply cannot worship God whilst being beside a homosexual. Or do you believe that refusing and excommunicating these people from the church, mosque or synagogue will bring you one step closer to Heaven and everlasting life.

Hardly I think! But its not up to me or you, its up to God aint it!

Always good to see people trying to bash the Catholics though. Tall Poppy syndrome its called. ie. Done by the little people.

Being gay is a sin because it is a way out. Married men have to deal with their wife when she is going through pms. Have to deal with "hormone imbalances" that makes her yell and scream then cry and then throw something. That is why, for they don't have to deal with that curse.

Anyways, why is it a sin? Bible=bs, any book written by men=bs. No god came down and said so, people said so. Ten commandments don't say "Thow shalt not ram a man in the bum"

Only words of humans, not a supreme being, say gay is wrong. Besides, ever hear of overpopulation? Being gay/lesbian cuts down on that.

Also, Il67, I usually respect you, but saying something is wrong because everyone says it is is messed up man. People at one time said Elvis was wrong and evil, but was he? People said flying was unatural and against god, but is it? People said taking medicine was wrong and evil, in fact the catholic church wiped out a few million people because of that, but is it? Just because everyone says it is wrong doesn't mean it is.

Besides, can't tell they are unless they say so. Or do something in front of you.

Maddas, I didn't judge. I wasn't the only one who said the pope may go to hell, maybe you should scroll up. And I guarantee those Christians who say Muhammad was a mad man in the desert have no clue who Muhammad was. They bash Islam and they get their knowledge of Islam from CNN and MSNBC.

James, those opinions are mine, not everyone elses. In my own personal opinion I think being gay is immoral and wrong. And if everyone thinks that can it just be because we agree with eachother?

Originally posted by Abraham Virtue
That is also like saying that pleasure is a sin.

How can that be so???

I like what BuddhaCession wrote. Thanks Budha.

Originally posted by Byrd

1) As any dog breeder or cat breeder or breeder of other domestic animals can tell you, many animals ARE bisexual or homosexual.

2) HETEROSEXUAL MEN are the greatest abusers (look at your local "scumbag list" if you don't believe me.)

3) and one lesbian and one gay in my family.

1) Byrd, we are NOT animals. We are humans and like human, we are aware of what's right and what's wrong.
At least we should be aware.

2) I think that you believe it, but me, I don't believe it. Or may be there is more problems with hetero men in the USA than we have in Europe.

3) Does it hurt ? Na...just kidding....

Originally posted by Illmatic67

Muhammad was sent by God, the Pope only thinks he was.

What a good one...." The pope thinks he was " while Muhammad was sent by God. I'll not forgive it, it's too much funny.

Originally posted by Maddas

1) Yes and a christian would say Mohammad was a mad man who hallucinated while in the desert.

2) Also in reply to your post - a gay Moslem is not a real moslem, well thats only ture in your mind, in the gay moslem's mind he thinks he is a real moslem. The only one who knows for sure is Allah. Not you .

3) But the same can be said about the Catholic Bishop, or any christian or Jew that is a homosexual .

4) But, judge not least you be judged. Two wrongs dont make a right. You people judging these homosexuals will only bring Gods Judgement on yourselves.

5) The homosexuals does not judge the hetrosexual.

6) Any way if your not homosexual whats the problem?

1) It's exactely what happened.

2) A gay mosleem cannot think that he's a real mosleem since he know ( or have to know ) that homosexuality is against the God Laws. So, he is NOT a real one nd he know it.

3) Of course.

4) We'll be judged by God ? Of course we will be.It's so evident. But we'll have something for us. We'll have the possibility to say that we didn't break a fundamental Holly Law. Of course, it will not help us so much if He want to send us in hell.

5) I suppose it was an humoristic statement. It was one, isn't it ?

6) Sure....sure...What's our f$$$king problem ? We just think homosexuality is not natural and dangerous. It's still our right to think it, write it and say it. We are still in a democracy I think. And if we don't want to meet any homo ( male or female ), and protecting our children from them, it's still our f$$$king right !!!!!!!!!!!!

Aren't ALL religions corrupt in this day and age? Infact, isn't the world around us and alot of people corrupt? Especially those in 'power'?

Perversion is going to happen, has happened in the past and will continue to happen until man no longer exist! The ONLY thing that makes it seem so much worse today, is because we are hearing about it, everywhere you look you can see it on some cover of a magazine, newspaper, TV and so on..the unfortunate ones are the ones who 'become' the statistic whether it be the the victim or the perpetrator. And we are just the spectators 'sometimes'...and we immidiately put on our God suit and judge. It is not our job to do this..we can't ever condemn anyone to hell for anything they've done 'unfortunately'...

Back to the Vatican..I certainly hope, and believe that it's not completely corrupted, although (please don't get mad) I can think of many more 'deeper' reasons why it IS corrupt..and those would be the things we don't see and don't read about, and the same goes for other religions *sorry* but that's how I feel and that's why I don't/won't go to church and that's why I stay out of *for the most part* the religious forums..
Magestica

1) It's exactely what happened.

All these false statements today about Islam is a direct consequence of what the Christians did when Islam blossomed. They created lies like Muhammad being the anti-christ and his religion being of the devil. It's exactly what happened your right but do you know why it happened?

I am not trying to directly relate this perversion with the gays and the Cathlic Church. I only started this topic in order to point out the corruption of the Cathlic Church, the Vatican in particular. I didn't intend to bring up sexuality or any moral dogmas that go along with it. Those dogmas only entered the arena when the religious freaks walked through the door.

I think that Muslims, Jews and Christians will be shocked at the passivity of their God. God is.

That is all I can say. GOD IS.

God can't not be, therefore God is.

Anything that is, is God.

Gays exist.

Therefore gay is God.

Just as air is God.

How you can deny that God owns all is beyond me.

God rules over the sinners.

God may not show action unto them because God is neutral.

That takes us back to God is.

God is what is.

He can't judge himself.

Therefore why should you???

Why should you judge what God made???

I think that some here said it best when they said that only God can judge. Well they are right.

Only God can judge cause only God can know for sure and only God can bring justice without in turn bringing unjustice onto them.

The average muslim or Jew is so quick to judge. Why???

Why is it that one feels as if they are right???

Because a book told them so???

That book isn't the Word of God.

The Word of God is bound in no pages.



You See?

I think corruption in Vatican has little to do with pedophile scandals. We dont know 10% of what really happend anyway.

Real corruption lies in betrayers of christianity, of those inside Vatican who work for antichrist. This pope is good. He is a god's bless.
I wonder who will next pope be, if it is someone evil, as it is supposed to be end is near.
But before that, it is prophecyzed that everyone will see their own soul, all sins and everything they are.

Sounds like exciting age..

Ok, just sex is a sin according to helen. So when you start getting over the hill, menopause, and can no longer have kids, you have to stop having kids? If you can't procreate, then the sex is just for pleasure, and to you is a sin.

Or a woman who is infertile. Should she never have sex because it would only be for pleasure since she can't have kids? Or an infertile guy? That is pretty f*cked up how you are trying to tell people what to do in their personal life. How about i go to your house and tell you not to eat bacon for breakfast because to my views it is wrong and condem you to hell for it? Yea, you wouldn't like it either! So butt out of people's lives as long as they don't affect you.

By the way, the pope isn't corrupt, he to old for that. The rest of the people who work for him are. He is a figure head, like Bush. The people who work for him are the speakers. They write it down, tell him to say it. He to old to do much else.

stop. You should just stop because your making yourself look ridiculous and the sad thing is, you probably don't even realize it.

"Gays exist so gay is God"

Ok, Satantic worshippers exist, are satanic worshippers God?

Well, yes Il67. You ever hear of the divine plan? At the beggining, god made a divine plan. It was written and set in stone. Whatever happens happens because it was written in the divine plan. Right there in the bible for all you bible lovers. So a gay person is gay because god's divine plan said they would be. A satan worshipper worships satan because the divine plan said he would. So, anyone wanna try to change god's divine plan?

I think it comes down to free will. God is not scipting your every movement like a puppet. What he has put in fromt of us is choice. God's plan is does not mean being a robot it is in fact freedom.

I said being Gay is a sin in the eyes of God...
So if you are attracted to the (opposite )...sorry! SAME sex,and you play out those feelings,then you sin in the eyes of God........
A sin is a sin.....no matter how big or small.
Sin took over because we allow it to rule our mind and our actions speak better then words.
Sin is something that all can associate with.....whether one is gay or not, sin is within us because we let it take over and freely accept it as being the 'right thing ' for us.

God saw that 'sin' would destroy all mankind and He sent His Son ........God took flesh and became man to save the world from sin.
He became man from a woman....serpant shall crush thy head(i have said this before,many times) and was born to destroy sin by His crucifiction.....lamb that was led to the slaughter......in the old Testament.....the offering of Isaac as a sacrifice was a Prototype of Christ the Saviour.....
Just because certain people want to do things their way does not make it ''ok'' with God.
People always have wanted to do things their way and doing so, they are giving themselves their own rules about what is 'right' and what is ''not right'' that does not make it '''Truth'' in the eyes of God..
Sin is when someone goes against God.......not the church.......but what God saw as profitting to mankind....and because being gay is going against God.....it is a sin that needs to be recognized........
And 'no' I don't see sex as a sin.......it is only a sin when one is going against what God saw as being good and benefitting to mankind.....and so if having sex with the same sex is what the situation is,then it is a sin...

Byrd........I am not on the same level as an animal.....neither are you?
The whole earth changed after the consequences of sin.....'''cursed is the ground for thy sake..thorns also and thistles shall bring it forthto thee..in the swaet of thy face shalt thou eat bread(that is, you will earn your food by heavy labour),till thou return unto the ground(that is,until you die);for out of it wast thou taken:and unto dust shalt thou return(Gen 3:16-19 )
So because of sin........the whole earth was changed....even animals changed.....they became wild and not so close to man as were once before...

[Edited on 6/8/2003 by helen670]

Being gay is a sin which counts under those against nature.
And God really doesn't like them..
Also sex before marriage is also sin, probably even after but smaller I guess.

Gay people are born gay they dont all of a sudden go oh yes i think ill be gay now had enough of that other sex. please i believe in god and god is all about forgiveness so let me just tell all you anehintscripturebiblebashingherpeburpes that if you cant forgive your fellow man or woman for being gay then why the hell are yu a good christian
or true muslim, if you are a certain religion then you cant mix and match its values you eather accept it or get on with your life and leave others alone, and Ilmanic you are FAR from being a true muslim because your distrust and dislike of gays holds you back, and before you tell me i dont know what im going on about, I have been to Iraq i have been to muslim holy sites, i know what it is like to be a muslim, so if you want to be a true muslim like you think you are then get rid of your pregidices .

You'll find corruptness in all churches as long as there are people involved. I was fortunate to be molested at the age of 12 by a man. After the initial shock of it all, I willfully went back for three years. The only problem I had was dealing with peoples hatred, and total lack of understanding of it. Oh yeah, until then I was a queer hater.

Originally posted by seedy_sid
Gay people are born gay they dont all of a sudden go oh yes i think ill be gay now had enough of that other sex. please i believe in god and god is all about forgiveness so let me just tell all you anehintscripturebiblebashingherpeburpes that if you cant forgive your fellow man or woman for being gay then why the hell are yu a good christian
or true muslim, if you are a certain religion then you cant mix and match its values you eather accept it or get on with your life and leave others alone, and Ilmanic you are FAR from being a true muslim because your distrust and dislike of gays holds you back, and before you tell me i dont know what im going on about, I have been to Iraq i have been to muslim holy sites, i know what it is like to be a muslim, so if you want to be a true muslim like you think you are then get rid of your pregidices .

Who sais Christianity does not forgive???
Any sin is forgiven once it is recognized as a sin......
People should treat people with respect!
There is no dislike!
True Christianity does not judge!
Only God will judge all mankind at ''the end of the world'' judgement day and give each according to his works!
And yes there has been circustances where people all of a sudden decide to go straight or gay!
Elton John..was married to an Australian woman......decided being gay was him....
Ann Heche.....straight......gay....straight and
married......decided that it was not the life she wanted....
There are many more people saying that ''the lifestlye' they led made them .......
So true with whatever crowd you mix with......you start acting like them........
Gee.........The Bible was not written for anyone to go ......i like this bit.....but not this!
This is way too old fashioned......this is more modern!
And so true today is people have there own opinions of what should be or should not be written in the Bible as to not offend........what is written should be left alone......

Again, helen, you said gay sex was a sin because it is only for pleasure. Yet a woman who has menopaused and can no longer have kids yet still has sex, is that a sin? Because no longer is it for procreating, but for pleasure.

Or an infertile man or woman. They can have no kids, so should they never have sex their entire life because your religon says sex for pleasure is wrong?

Again, when did god say it was a sin? The ten commandments are god's words. The bbile and the rest are human words. If you go by human words, we are flat, center, afraid of dragons eating us, a cyclops throwing stones at our boats and sinking them, god sending fire and killing millions with plagues and supernatural powers, and other bs. Ten Commandments people, written by god. Bible, written by people like the ones in the catholic church. We all know how good they are, don't we?