Questions Regarding Halal Practices

originally posted by: gottaknow
I appreciate the helpful and valuable information from everyone.

I agree that my hypocrisy is in issue unto itself and still, I try to find some medium ground with my decision to eat meat in support of a morally conscious procedure for animals. It sucks that there's no bright lining there really and I've seen/read a lot about the slaughterhouses/abattoirs (cool word, btw) in the past.

I can see how it would be ridiculous of me to take issue with the prayers to Allah and not with Kosher food. I'd rather everyone just thanked the farmers or the animals themselves, but whatever. That's something I can let go.

I try to take my consumerism seriously and boycott when I find it conflicts with my personal morality. In the world of grocery shopping, it seems like there's always a new decision to be made like this and I don't want to make the wrong one.

@enlightenedservant: TY. The paragraph about the charities was especially helpful.

No problem. If there's anything else you have a question with, just let me know. If I don't have a satisfactory answer, I'll try to point you to a better source of knowledge.

And I wouldn't feel too bad about eating meat. Even as a vegetarian, I know I'm still consuming microbes, insect parts, and bacteria. And there's no guarantee that any foods prepared for us are truly "meat free" anyway (think soup stocks, sauces, etc). So for me, it's all about the intentions.

I'd just recommend you take it one step at a time. And when you do eat meat, make sure it's a meal you enjoy. That way, the animal didn't die just for you to not enjoy it (I'm talking about the bland dollar menu "meats" lol).

www.youtube.com...

I dont know if its halal or its just humans being anything but human.

Its a shame but like Sharia, halal is nasty

a reply to: paraphi

As someone who once worked at a chicken slaughter house (for a day), I can assure you, there is no stunning of these poor, wretched animals.

There's 4 or 5 packed into a 2x1x1 foot box, some die in transport in these boxes, they then get yanked out of the boxes and hung up on a conveyor belt by their feet, they're literally #ting themselves at this point too.

This conveyer takes them past a blade that cuts their heads off, some survive this, I guess by lifting their head at the wrong time. Yes wrong time, as the next stage entails the feet getting chopped off, and they then drop into a big, hot tumbler that de-feathers them, the survivors don't survive this, but would die an agonising death.

Grim barely covers it.

a reply to: borntowatch

No, halal isn't nasty.

Long before religion, animals were getting slaughtered, often by caving the skull in with a rock, and later the throat slit or heart stabbed.

Too many humans don't treat animals with any kind of respect, and cruelty to animals is one thing that gets me riled up, like I would inflict massive pain on someone if I saw them inflicting unnecessary pain on a helpless animal.

So take it from me when I say that halal isn't nasty.

Nasty is when these supposed halal butchers mistreat and torture animals, like they did a few years ago to Australian cattle.

originally posted by: borntowatch
www.youtube.com...

I dont know if its halal or its just humans being anything but human.

Its a shame but like Sharia, halal is nasty

This has nothing to do with Halal. You can find conditions like that all over the world.

Like I said, the problem is not with the religious practices, the problem is simply the quality of the raising and slaughtering. And if there is one thing encourage bad practices, it's industrial production, not religions.

originally posted by: borntowatch
www.youtube.com...

I dont know if its halal or its just humans being anything but human.

Its a shame but like Sharia, halal is nasty

Wow. You take one incident & use it to label not only all Halal foods but also Islamic law/Sharia? Does someone need to show you videos of slaughterhouse abuses all over the world? And assuming that clip was even accurate, that's a clear violation of Halal methods, as well.

Also, Sharia law dictates all of Islamic laws. That includes the requirement to give to charity, no killing except in self defense, no stealing, no lying, no fornication, etc. It even guarantees females the right to divorce, to get an inheritance, alimony & child support for the children (before those terms existed), etc. So how on Earth is Sharia bad?

And for the record, every denomination & region has its own additional Sharia/Islamic laws. So even if some regions or denominations have archaic or ultra-conservative laws, you can't even start to label all Islamic laws like that.

EDIT: LOL Well, in the time it took me to write my response, 2 other people beat me to it.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
So how on Earth is Sharia bad?

Most people simply don't realize they take a specific tradition (fundamentalism) and make generalization to entire traditions out of ignorance.

It's like saying "Christian faith is bad, it teaches creationism" or things like that when only certain branches of fundamentalism do so.

It too dislike fundamentalism, but it's not a reason to claim religions are bad since fundamentalism is a perversion of a religion.

originally posted by: Nibbles

originally posted by: Expat888
All this talk about food .. getting hungry ... guess get up from hammock .. catch chicken and fix dinner ..

*hands Expat a meat cleaver*

Nibs

Thanks .. made a nice chicken yakitori ..

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
So how on Earth is Sharia bad?

Most people simply don't realize they take a specific tradition (fundamentalism) and make generalization to entire traditions out of ignorance.

It's like saying "Christian faith is bad, it teaches creationism" or things like that when only certain branches of fundamentalism do so.

It too dislike fundamentalism, but it's not a reason to claim religions are bad since fundamentalism is a perversion of a religion.

Very true.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: borntowatch

No, halal isn't nasty.

Long before religion, animals were getting slaughtered, often by caving the skull in with a rock, and later the throat slit or heart stabbed.

Too many humans don't treat animals with any kind of respect, and cruelty to animals is one thing that gets me riled up, like I would inflict massive pain on someone if I saw them inflicting unnecessary pain on a helpless animal.

So take it from me when I say that halal isn't nasty.

Nasty is when these supposed halal butchers mistreat and torture animals, like they did a few years ago to Australian cattle.

Well you have worked in an abattoir I can tell by what you say.

Western abattoir they use a bolt gun to the brain through the skull, instant. halal they slit an animals throat and bleed it, takes minutes

Dont tell me what you think, I will tell you what I know. I use to wash my hands in cows blood.
Nasty....NO
Halal is cruel and inhumane, you can have it

originally posted by: enlightenedservant


Wow. You take one incident & use it to label not only all Halal foods but also Islamic law/Sharia? Does someone need to show you videos of slaughterhouse abuses all over the world? And assuming that clip was even accurate, that's a clear violation of Halal methods, as well.

Sharia dictates women have no rights or little rights, its inhumane but aside

can you explain how halal animals must be slaughtered please

From what I've seen since beginning this thread is, inhumane practices exist in all the forms of slaughter as well as deviations from the practices in each.

I'm still torn if I can accept the throat-slashing practices. I've realized that I may have to eliminate Kosher as well as Halal due to that rather than the religious overtones.
I really like the idea of buying local meat and am going to try to find a place in town where I can do so. We have a farmer's market in the summer. I believe I'll be hitting that up more often.

My heart wants to go vegetarian. My stomach wants some meatballs. My brain looks at animal carnivores and sees how much they regard their prey in the end. So, it's been a 2 outta 3 win for me indulging in meat.

On a dark note, I've often felt that death by animal would be a scary, but acceptable end for me. If my body were to be a feast for a pack of wolves, that would be just fine.

originally posted by: gottaknow

On a dark note, I've often felt that death by animal would be a scary, but acceptable end for me. If my body were to be a feast for a pack of wolves, that would be just fine.

What about a feast for maggots? In the end we will all be food for life again.

a reply to: gottaknow

Understand, that in order for you to eat most things, even plant matter, something is going to die. The best you can do is find a way to make peace with that. In Halal practice, that's what the prayer is for. Maybe you don't like it as an atheist, but understand the sentiment even if you don't believe. The purpose is to thank God for the sacrifice of the animal and sustenance it will provide through its life and subsequent death. It expresses an understanding of what must be lost in order that the food be gained and a sense of gratitude for that. This is what Christians are doing when they say Grace at the table. And I have no doubt that Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and others have their own ways of thanking the universe for the food and reflecting on how it was provided to us.

This is how we make peace.

Kosher food is better than ours. Halal even better.

in Australia companies like cadburys chocolate are losing money from being halal as people are sick of finding products labelled halal and contrary to whats being said about the farmer making more money ,they have to pay for this certification which runs into the thousands even for a small business. this money in turn is being given to groups like the muslim brotherhood. the certifying should be done by a government body for a minimal fee that way there can be no sneaky dealings , and please don't start the racist bigot bs I have muslim friends and they don't understand it when they can merely say a prayer over their food

a reply to: babalon1971

Have a read of this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: gottaknow

Well, I won't try to pressure you either way. But if you go vegetarian, there are a lot of meat alternatives which taste pretty good. Though to be fair, some taste nothing like the meat they claim to emulate. So shop around & find the ones you like the most. Many stores even have entire sections in the frozen foods aisles which focus on vegetarian & vegan products. One company that has good veggie "chicken", "meatballs", and "corndogs" is Morningstar (they should pay me an endoresemnt fee). Though according to my ex, their "sausage" and "bacon" taste nothing like the real deal. She calls their sausage "not-dogs" and bacon alternative "fake-in" lol

Maybe you should try going veggie for a week & see how you like it? Originally I was only going to do it for 1 month as a challenge to myself. But 4 years later I'm still a vegetarian. Though if you choose to keep eating meat, that's fine too. Though you probably realize by now that there's no real "safe" way to kill an animal. But if we're going to do it, we should do it with as little harm as possible to the animal.

Oh & quick tips. Some may try to scare you away from going vegetarian because of protein & Vitamin B12. Nuts, beans, grains, and many other foods are high in protein. Even an 8oz cup of chocolate soy milk has 5grams of protein. So that's not a problem. And Vitamin B12 is found in all dairy products & eggs, as well as many fortified foods like cereals. And many vegetarian & vegan products add B12 because of the outcry. And that same 8oz cup of chocolate soy milk also has 50% of the RDA for B12 in it. And you can also just take a multi-vitamin. My B12 vitamins have a whopping 41 days worth of B12 per pill! (4,167% RDA).

a reply to: Chadwickus

That's one of the saddest things I've ever read.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I know, but I don't think sugar coating it would get the message across.

I only spent a day there, it was at a time when work was very scarce, I spent most the day washing the cages fortunately, but spent a brief moment on the conveyor, until they realised that I hadn't lost my soul and couldn't stomach it.

I buy free range chicken and eggs nowadays..