What Exactly is MK-Ultra?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
I see videos of some people claiming to be victims, but I never know if what they are saying actually happened to them, or why they were even chosen in the first place. I am simply asking about it, I am not trying to debunk it.

The questions I have are:
1: Why were those people chosen?
2: What are the real methods involved?
3: How long has it been happening?
4: Why now are people talking about it?

It seems that if it was such a top secret thing, why are the victims able to tell their stories? It seems to me that if they were that manipulated, they would not be able to talk about it.

Please, I really don't know what to think about it. And how would one know someone else was a victim? Could someone be a victim and not know?

That is really what I am trying to figure out, because it if is real, then it is a very dangerous thing that should not be happening and we should try to stop it. I think from some videos I have seen that some people are just nuts. I remember a case from a town close to where I lived, there was a man who was arrested for rape of a 2 year-old child and he kept saying that he had been a victim of government experiments when he was young in California.

So see, I see nutters trying to blame the government for their own actions, but others don't seem to be insane and really make a good presentation to prove their case.

What is it? How real is it and should we be afraid?

If you see only nutters here you haven't been looking at the right sources, or rather ones that are trying to make this seem nutty, are nutty and or make money. It was at least(some claim it still is) an active and declassified program.


1: Why were those people chosen?
These are very verifiable: Military members, people in mental health facilities(See Canada's Montreal institution used by the US for MKUltra purposes) - one source.

Claimed cases: family of military or government agency members often ones of Celtic and or Native American background. Also, especially brunettes with blue or green eyes, blondes and redheads.



2: What are the real methods involved?

Mind control in various forms; general mind control, games, torture, very disturbing methods I cannot mention here, etc.


3: How long has it been happening?
Early 1950s.

4: Why now are people talking about it?

It's not just now. But more so in the past 25 to 35 years. After de-classification.
MkUltra- declassified project documents


Should you be afraid? Probably depends on who you're associated with. Also depends on validity of sources. I'd say in general, no, unless you're some kind of target for that( such as family association, famous, government employee, etc). Though, can say there's at least one claim that 80% or so of people in the US are affected. Not sure about that, but somthing to look into(a vid)-discretion advised. Then again MTV, consumer culture,... do we need it personally done to us because it's all over?

In general this site has lots of good threads to look into for more on it.

a reply to: WarminIndy

This is a short excerpt from an article I wrote for Foreign policy Journal called "Rethinking Conspiracy." One question it answers (of those you posed) is that it was during the congressional Church Committee in 1975 that revelations of MK-Ultra came to light. My own belief is that these experiments represent continuation of Nazi experimentation. Project Paperclip remember brought thousands of unrepentant Nazis and their families into the US after WW2. Bad move. These seeds of fascism have obviously been sprouting in a big way over the past few decades.

From "Rethinking Conspiracy" www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

MK-ULTRA: As its code name suggests, MK-ULTRA was a mind control program run by the Office of Scientific Intelligence for the ostensible purpose of discovering ways to glean information from Communist spies although its applications were undoubtedly more far-reaching. It employed various methodologies including sensory deprivation and isolation, sexual abuse, and the administration of powerful psychotropic drugs such as lysergic acid diethylamide (ell ess dee) to unwitting subjects, including military personnel, prisoners, and college students. Many of them suffered serious consequences. One biochemist, Frank Olson, who was secretly slipped a strong dose of lysergic acid (ell ess dee) at a CIA meeting, suffered a severe psychotic break and died when, for whatever reason, he plummeted from his apartment window to the pavement below. Such revelations came to light in 1975 during hearings by the congressional Church Committee (Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities) and the presidential Rockefeller Commission. These investigations were hindered by CIA Director Richard Helms who in 1973 had ordered the MK-ULTRA files destroyed.

a reply to: dreamingawake

On the bright side, we've made leaps and bounds on some social front-lines since then....and granted, some pretty big back-steps on others.

Live and learn.

If 80% of the U.S. Population is indeed involved, it might be interesting to see what comes out of the next 60 years.

Let's hope it's a move forward towards a kinder, gentler State.

Head up.
Moving forward.

a reply to: eviloftwolessers

A lot to think about.

Now where did I read or hear at, that Jackie Kennedy was very upset because John was attending parties where they were slipping that particular substance to women? Seems to me they mentioned Richard Helms in that.

Oh, Olson "committed suicide"? You mean like others who "committed suicide" by beheading themselves, or giving themselves karate chops to the neck?

So then they would have been doing this when Kennedy was alive? Makes a whole new discussion on that subject.

a reply to: dreamingawake

Sometimes I wonder about my brothers. I have 5 and all were in the military.

I have one brother that was so intelligent that he managed to work his way through the Air Force to become a navigator, he actually helped create computer software for guided missile systems, after the Air Force, he interned at NASA and Oak Ridge. But for some reason one day he decided he was tired of thinking and decided to quit it all and become a construction worker.

Another brother said that when he was in the Air Force, he suddenly developed a sleeping problem and had to be treated. He never had that problem before.

But I don't know, they just seem to be a little strange at times. Now that I know this information, I will keep my eyes open about them.

a reply to: Fireflysky

Originally it was to program us ..like ME to counter communism by wanting to be soldiers,NOW it appears it is simply an effoert to undermine the prior system by exploiting vulnerability and create sumission to the system.

MK Ultra

Wow!
A bag of worms you have reopened here, but a very interesting topic nonetheless.
I am just going to say 2 things

'___'

History Channel: Getting High

and Frank Olsen.

Wiki: Frank Olsen

As a passing comment I'd also like to add, this was more than half a century ago. The evolution of such experiments surely must have skyrocketed today.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Leary, Kesey, etc. were the gov's worst nightmare. They were taking their secret juice and giving it to everybody who wanted some! Turns out it was enjoyable and could be used recreationally. That's why it was made illegal in 1966. Do you think if they wanted the youth of America MK'ed out that they would make it illegal? Acid turned out to not be very helpful with mind control. It's too volatile.
Leary and Kesey have well recorded connections with Universities that were hosting MK Ultra, but they weren't working for the CIA as far as I can tell.

originally posted by: Twenty38
MK Ultra

Wow!
A bag of worms you have reopened here, but a very interesting topic nonetheless.
I am just going to say 2 things

'___'

History Channel: Getting High

and Frank Olsen.

Wiki: Frank Olsen

As a passing comment I'd also like to add, this was more than half a century ago. The evolution of such experiments surely must have skyrocketed today.

As you can tell, I'm a little confused as to why people say it is a can of worms. I really haven't put much thought into it before.

I look at things like this, either something is going on or it isn't. And if something is going on, then is it in our best interest to know about it?

Apparently it is going on, so I am going to open that can of worms, even if I don't understand why it is a can of worms. Maybe it is because I am at the top of heap beginning to dig down into it? Give me time to catch up.

originally posted by: ItCameFromOuterSpace
a reply to: WarminIndy

Leary, Kesey, etc. were the gov's worst nightmare. They were taking their secret juice and giving it to everybody who wanted some! Turns out it was enjoyable and could be used recreationally. That's why it was made illegal in 1966. Do you think if they wanted the youth of America MK'ed out that they would make it illegal? Acid turned out to not be very helpful with mind control. It's too volatile.
Leary and Kesey have well recorded connections with Universities that were hosting MK Ultra, but they weren't working for the CIA as far as I can tell.

Some people enjoy getting their faces bashed in, doesn't mean it is good for them. I know what it is, I have seen what it does. Thank goodness I never fell for it, I have never used it.

But really, do people really know what they look like while taking substances? If they knew, they would probably be too embarrassed knowing how stupid they were acting.

Believe me, I have had to work with people who tried all kinds of stuff, while at work, and let me tell you, if they only knew what they looked like.

Yeah, just because it is pleasurable doesn't mean it is good and just because it is a fashion doesn't mean everyone should try. And yeah, just because they think it opens up new levels of consciousness doesn't mean it is anything more than your brain being incapable of metabolizing it and your brain needs to rid itself of it, but can't. Leary was just a perverted old guy who wanted to get high and get laid, that's all.

a reply to: WarminIndy

There are quite a few tunnels in this particular warren of rabbit holes, specifically toward the electronic aspects:

Mind control technologies are weapons which use electronic microchip implants, nanotechnologies, microwaves and/or electromagnetic waves to subvert an individual’s sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making by attacking the brain and nervous system. The development of these method and technologies has a long history.

This isn't sci-fi or nutter fodder either:

...Researchers at the University of Washington (UW) had been working on an implantable electronic chip that might help establish new nerve connections in the part of the brain that controlled movement....

...The technology, developed under the DARPA programs of Tony Tether, Col. Geoffrey Ling and N.I.H programs of William Heetderks, had been protected as a Defense “Special Access Program1” (SAP), which was the official terminology for a “black project.” The research had resulted in implantable devices that were millimeter and sub-millimeter in size, could be surreptitiously implanted (and had been fabricated in a manner that the devices could not be detected or localized by clinical medical or radiology techniques), and provided a shocking amount of surveillance capability regarding a subject’s activities, which might include visual and auditory biofeedback data.

Additionally, the devices were capable of delivering testosterone or any other biological agent. ...

Oh, the "voices in their heads" are just their imagination?

...In 2002, the US Air Force Research Laboratory patented precisely such a device: “a nonlethal weapon which includes (1) a neuro-electromagnetic device, which broadcast sound into the skull of persons or animals by way of pulse-modulated microwave radiation; and (2) a silent sound device, which can transmit ultrasound (above human hearing) into the skull of mammals.” NOTE: The sound modulation might be voice or audio subliminal messages. One application of voice-to-skull uses was an electronic scarecrow to frighten birds in the vicinity of airports. [5]

And as for reading your mind:

“Using the scanner, we could look around the brain for this information and read out something that from the outside, there is no way you possibly could tell is in there. It is like shining a torch around, looking for writing on a wall,” said JohnDylan Haynes at the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences in Germany in 2007, who led the study with colleagues at University College London and Oxford University.

Satellites and mobile transmission towers are in on it too:

Those mind reading technologies use EEC with decoding of neurological signals remotely with or without an implant through satellite or through TV Mobile transmission towers. The following data was from NASA’s Jet Propulsion Lab, “The sensitivity of our deep-space tracking antennas located around the world is truly amazing. The antennas must capture Voyager information from a signal so weak that the power striking the antenna is only 10 exponent -16 watts (1 part in 10 quadrillion). A modern-day electronic digital watch operates at a power level 20 billion times greater than this feeble level.”

Scientists believed the weak radio emission of a cubic centimeter of brain matter was within the detectable limits of the satellite. It was technically possible for a satellite to detect your thoughts, emotions and perceptions, and pass that information to a computer for interpretation.

And in light of this thread about WikiLeaks publishes hacked Sony documents, the following section takes on a more ominous undertone:

Many patents had indicated the existence of mind control technologies, such as: USP # 6,729,337 (May 4, 2004), Sony owned a patent “Sony Brain Waves Manipulation By Ultrasound” for an “ultrasound array” that supposedly stimulated your brain waves to simulate sensory experiences causing its users to experience smells, tastes and even touch without external stimuli.

There's a lot more to be found within the linked document, including a case study of a victim.

All external quotes excerpted from Mind Control with Electromagnetic Frequency direct .pdf link

a reply to: WarminIndy

One of the band members of Grateful Dead was a Cia agent so you're not far off. The whole sixties movement was a CIA concocted experiment that went the wrong direction. I gaurntee if everyone on this planet took a said substance, fungus or '___', the world would change in a heartbeat. It shouldn't surprise you that kidney killing pills are abundantly prescribed, and alcohol, yet psychedelics have never killed anyone, ever, do nothing at all but change your perception for a few hours.....and yet, they're felonies.. Sorry, but something isn't making sense. They realized they mistakenly created a substance that woke people abruptly to the real world, and that obviously can't be allowed in a BS civilization ran by crazies.

Everyone likes to refer to Timothy Leary when it comes to who was responsible in popularizing that notorious substance, which spawned the 60's hippy movement. But, Ken Kesley who wrote the book 'One Who Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' , actually had just as much to do with it.

He was actually a volunteer guinea pig in the MKULTRA program. According to him after becoming quite fascinated with this 'notorious hippy substance', he found out that his key fitted the doctors door where the CIA experiments where taking place. He claims he stole a heap of it, then used the profits he got from his book to travel around America in a rainbow coloured painted bus, spreading this 'notorious substance' across America and spawning the hippy movement across the world.

I could put my tinfoil hat on and say he was probably BSing about how he got it and maybe the CIA hooked him up, deliberately for the purpose of spreading it across america.

I really don't know, I just know that Ken Kesley was directly involved in the MKULTRA program and had just as much to do with 'tuning in' America as Timothy Leary did.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Everyone likes to refer to Timothy Leary when it comes to who was responsible in popularizing that notorious substance, which spawned the 60's hippy movement. But, Ken Kesley who wrote the book 'One Who Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' , actually had just as much to do with it.

He was actually a volunteer guinea pig in the MKULTRA program. According to him after becoming quite fascinated with this 'notorious hippy substance', he found out that his key fitted the doctors door where the CIA experiments where taking place. He claims he stole a heap of it, then used the profits he got from his book to travel around America in a rainbow coloured painted bus, spreading this 'notorious substance' across America and spawning the hippy movement across the world.

I could put my tinfoil hat on and say he was probably BSing about how he got it and maybe the CIA hooked him up, deliberately for the purpose of spreading it across america.

I really don't know, I just know that Ken Kesley was directly involved in the MKULTRA program and had just as much to do with 'tuning in' America as Timothy Leary did.

Something is interesting about that story. If the substance were simply created and kept in a laboratory, then how did the average hippie get it? It's not like they were going around with all the chemicals and equipment required to manufacture it.

How did it get into the hands of the average hippie? I don't know and don't want to know, but it does seem strange to me that if it was created in the military and university labs, then it must have been manufactured by someone with the money to manufacture it.

It was the central theme of the musical Hair and so many people believe it was the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. I don't know really much about astrology, but the first line of the song makes some sense now.

When the moon is in the seventh house
And Jupiter aligns with Mars....

Think about it, they were using cryptic messages. Jupiter was the sky god, represented by an eagle and a thunderbolt. Mars is the god of war.

The United States' symbol is the eagle, and in the 1960s they were pushing toward war. Jupiter and Mars were aligned in the 1960s, but it was the US forcing a war, to honor Mars.

Alignment, it didn't bring peace, but brought about the worst actions of the CIA in history. Peace and harmony? Is that the code for enslavement and obedience to the government?

Makes sense now.

Nice discussion above. If unfamiliar check out Tom Wolfe's book: The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test

Wolfe presents an as-if-firsthand account of the experiences of Ken Kesey and his band of Merry Pranksters, who traveled across the country in a colorfully painted school bus named "Further".

A meeting between Leary and Kesey would mark the meeting of East and West. Leary was on the East Coast, and Kesey represented the West Coast

Wiki

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Nice discussion above. If unfamiliar check out Tom Wolfe's book: The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test

Wolfe presents an as-if-firsthand account of the experiences of Ken Kesey and his band of Merry Pranksters, who traveled across the country in a colorfully painted school bus named "Further".

A meeting between Leary and Kesey would mark the meeting of East and West. Leary was on the East Coast, and Kesey represented the West Coast

Wiki

Oh, THAT was who was in the movie Across the Universe, I always thought it was Leary, but I see it was Kesey.


I can't believe I didn't know this information. Thank you for showing that to me.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Also interesting to note : The widely used "peace sign" is a Death Rune.
Maybe it was intentional, maybe it wasn't.
I don't know.

The 60's were before my time.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Everyone likes to refer to Timothy Leary when it comes to who was responsible in popularizing that notorious substance, which spawned the 60's hippy movement. But, Ken Kesley who wrote the book 'One Who Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' , actually had just as much to do with it.

He was actually a volunteer guinea pig in the MKULTRA program. According to him after becoming quite fascinated with this 'notorious hippy substance', he found out that his key fitted the doctors door where the CIA experiments where taking place. He claims he stole a heap of it, then used the profits he got from his book to travel around America in a rainbow coloured painted bus, spreading this 'notorious substance' across America and spawning the hippy movement across the world.

I could put my tinfoil hat on and say he was probably BSing about how he got it and maybe the CIA hooked him up, deliberately for the purpose of spreading it across america.

I really don't know, I just know that Ken Kesley was directly involved in the MKULTRA program and had just as much to do with 'tuning in' America as Timothy Leary did.

Something is interesting about that story. If the substance were simply created and kept in a laboratory, then how did the average hippie get it? It's not like they were going around with all the chemicals and equipment required to manufacture it.

How did it get into the hands of the average hippie? I don't know and don't want to know, but it does seem strange to me that if it was created in the military and university labs, then it must have been manufactured by someone with the money to manufacture it.

lol, well I wouldn't underestimate those feral hippies for one second, us humans are a very resourceful bunch.

But.......... it should be noted that it was fully legal until 1969 in the US. So the CIA MK- Ultra experiments were all above board and anyone could have ordered it from the Swiss pharmaceutical company Sandoz.

It wasn't until 1965 when Leary ordered a large amount, when Albert Hoffman (who was the person to originally synthesize it) advised Sandoz to stop producing it, because he was concerned about the the newly created American counter-culture, who he thought were abusing it, with little regard to the very powerful overwhelming influence this substance had on the human mind.

It should also be noted that Albert Hoffman was one of the biggest advocates of the positive effects this substance could have for humanity. But, I guess Hoffman decided after seeing how much blatant disregard society had for this incredible, yet very powerful substance, that we simply were not mature enough to handle it at this stage in our evolution.

On a personal note, I can't say I disagree with him either, we do tend to be a feeble minded bunch as a whole.

It's a really complicated answer. I'd recommend reading "The Search For the Manchurian Candidate" by Marks.

It's pretty accurate and will get you started out ok. The problem is that it's a big wacky subject and everyone who's got mental issues appeals to MKUltra to beef up their stories the way perpetual motion cranks appeal to Tesla. It is bizarre enough as is.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: WarminIndy

Also interesting to note : The widely used "peace sign" is a Death Rune.
Maybe it was intentional, maybe it wasn't.
I don't know.

The 60's were before my time.

It's the semaphore signs for N and D overlapped for nuclear disarmament.

eta: or it's a B52 covering the world...