Something interesting. It seems that countries heavily involved in war tend to do well economically in the long run. Looking at the USA, Japan, Germany, the UK, France, Vietnam and many others it seems that war does something to stimulate a country's economy.
Maybe all those looking for outlandish conspiracy theories for the reason for the war should look to the obvious. Military spending spurs growth.
Perhaps what we need is MORE war and not less.
Wouldnt it be wonderful if we could have war without the messy part?

Ehh...I think there's more at work than you think.

Look at Germany after WW1, horrible economy.

France...russia!

I think while war is a time for profit it can also be equally devestating on economies if not handled properly.

So it's not likely that people would go to war JUST to boost an economy.

On another note, the last bit you said lol...reminds me of EarthSeige...and StarSeige the 3rd part of that series.

Where corporations invented machines to do all the fighting. And what ended up as you can guess is the machines turned on humanity and plunged them into 20 years of death.

The average life span of a soldier in that war in the series was like a few days lol.

And it went on for 20 years, then stopped after they defeated the "Dark Intellect" but he came back and started an attack from the moon which went on another 2 years I think.

Then he escaped to pluto and returned some hmm...200 years later? And layed waste to humanity for another few years.

Awesome series

Maybe we should have a Judge Dredd type war, where soldiers fight it out one on one. But then we wouldnt have the kind of mass destruction that would lead to mass rebuilding efforts and cash injections. Perhaps the countries could arrange to move their civilian populations elsewhere then pummel each other?
Im no war monger mate, just examining issues

I'm inclined to agree with Wanderer here.

Sorry Trader your argument does not stand up.

I think the Cold War is what you're looking for Trader. We wouldn't have got to the moon if it hadn't been an issue of "who's got the bigger rocket" between the US and USSR.

And right now the current US war of choice is a war which doesn't even have an enemy to fight. Funny that US military spending now equals the military spending of every other country in the world put together, all on the back of fighting an invisible enemy.

But I think the argument holds, as long as you're on the winning side, and as long as you don't take a lot of damage in the process. i.e. for the UK WW2 was a disaster economically because of the huge damage done to the country itself. For the US on the other hand, WW2 stimulated a lot of growth, because there was no domestic mess to clean up...

If you havn't noticed, the only reason half those countries are better is because we were involved. The US is the first country to rebuild the nation after battle. So not really, its really just USA influence.

This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is how I feel and I am only being honest.

This isn't a good idea. War only allows for stimulation of certain industries, it doesn't mean prosperity. Besides only those who 'win' the war will benefit. Yet there are no winners in war, just losers.

We lose if we need to kill in order to survive.


You See?

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

War is inevitable. I cannot really protest the ideal of war, since that would be like protesting sex, thinking, and farting. War is simply natural to the human spiecies. Since we are at the top of the foodchain, and have techknowledgy to cure ourselves of disease, war remains the last ditch population control available to the human animal.

That said, it comes down to the nature of war, whether it is something sensical or not. Is it worthwhile? Is the war a country fighting something necessary to defend or sustain the nation? Will it benefit or harm the society? Will the long term effects be nasty or nice?

Iraq basically is a bad war. Its one based on lies full of dark motives that dont seem to benefit any but a few. The US economy is choking right now. In world war two, everything was made in America that we used. Thus, the need for production mean jobs were created. Now, with most of our manufacturing shut down and shipped elsewhere, i dont see massive job growth. I am aseeing even more job cuts and lay offs, more industries losing money. Thus, this war isnt helping the American Public become more secure and prosperous.

The war is creating security issues. We are creating more enemies. In the meantime, we are not innovating much. We are not breaking out with cutting edge ideas and inventions. We are not prospering.

Plus, this war was nonsense. Frolicking around in Iraq chasing invisible little spider farts is detracting us from bigger and nastier threats. North Korea is still out there. Russia is picking up the tempo. And the terrorists are no more closer to being shut down than before. We are no more safer after Iraq than we were before.

I disagree that war boosts the economy. If America actually paid for all the wars we fought you'd find our country very poor. You don't have any money if your in debt.

Hmmm...Reminds me of George Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty Four" where Oceania is constantly at war - the conflict is actually being fabricated by the government because war is good for the economy, in that it gives the whole nation work. And for that matter, a common enemy, so that they won't turn against the government. Come to think of it, isn't that what Bush is doing right now?

War is only good for the economy of superpowers like the USA, who are virtually invulnerable, on their own turf at least. The only reason Europe and Japan's economies flourished in the mid to late 20th century is that the USA felt obliged after WW2 to rebuild the countries. As ADVISOR said, had it not been for America, their economies would have been in ruins.

War is not good for humanity at all, and it only benefits the capitalists running the winning country.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
If you havn't noticed, the only reason half those countries are better is because we were involved. The US is the first country to rebuild the nation after battle. So not really, its really just USA influence.

Advisor, don't you think that there is a reason why the US is the first nation to rebuild a nation after war? Do you think its coincidence that Haliburton is the company tasked with rebuilding the infrastructure in Iraq? Or a coincidence that US politicians are on the board of directors or have shares in these companies who "win" these lucrative contracts? It's big business...

Military Industrial Entertainment Network

War is only good for the economy of superpowers like the USA

Still, I disagree... The cost of war in the long run is tremendously high. Much higher then what will be earned in the short run.

From an accounting standpoint it might be even but I really doubt it... The US has a huge deficit which is largely due to defense spending. I don't see how any individual or government is weathly if they are in debt.

From an economic standpoint one must take all factors into account such as environmental damage, social impacts, future political strategies, etc, etc, etc. All of those things ultimately have the net effect of damaging the economy.

An example of the war costing a lot to the US economy would be the former Taliban rule of Afganistan. Do you know who trained the Taliban? Iraq was the same way... Messes the US government created and then tried to ignore.



[Edited on 5-6-2003 by tacitblue]

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by tacitblue]

Originally posted by cargo

Originally posted by ADVISOR
If you havn't noticed, the only reason half those countries are better is because we were involved. The US is the first country to rebuild the nation after battle. So not really, its really just USA influence.

Advisor, don't you think that there is a reason why the US is the first nation to rebuild a nation after war? Do you think its coincidence that Haliburton is the company tasked with rebuilding the infrastructure in Iraq? Or a coincidence that US politicians are on the board of directors or have shares in these companies who "win" these lucrative contracts? It's big business...

Military Industrial Entertainment Network

Exactly. That's what I was hinting at. I'm glad your quick.

Animals have always fought, for food, shelter, sex etc. What humanity has done is expand this into large destructive bloodfests by enticing mostly young men with emotive topics such as glory and patriotism.

Countries involved in the reconstruction no doubt gain through the involvement of their companies, or the rebuilding of their infrastructure.

What many of the NWO societies long ago realized is that since the process is inevitable, they may as well own the factors of production and decision making process and exploit it fully for their own good.

Wars remember are fought for two main reasons; natural resources and commodity markets. Consumption drives production which necessitates consumption, which continues the vicious cycle.

I am not by any means condoning war, nor am I a tree hugger. I guess Im just saddened by the way things work in this world.

I think that in order for consumption and production statistics to not be influenced by war, you need to change the economic indicators so that GDP and exports and zero inflation and high dollar value aren't automatically assumed to be sacred cows in some combination or other.

How about applying penalties for economic bads as well:

* violent crime rates
* value on all human life exterminated by war at a universal figure that doesn't presume an American life to be worth more
* pollution and uglification.

Not even to touch on distribution of wealth or poverty as that inspires another argument.

The industrial-military complex is on the way out as our species evolves. It's on its last legs. Just long enough to go for a few media conglomerates to make a few billion from developing and selling violent computer games that dull players' minds and reduce adult literacy for a few generations.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
[Exactly. That's what I was hinting at. I'm glad your quick.

Just making sure we were on the same page.

Well, once every nation that wars is advanced enough to have totally mechanized armies, war will not only be bloodless, it will probably be a hit TV show.

because it isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Wars remember are fought for two main reasons; natural resources and commodity markets. Consumption drives production which necessitates consumption, which continues the vicious cycle.

You forgot the third... "Who's dick is bigger?" You honestly don't think a majority of the world's leaders are smart do you? I mean the Cold War wasn't fought over natural resources or markets... It was fought because "we" were right and "they" were wrong. Much like the most recent conflict in Iraq... It reminds me of like little kids whining with each other in Kindergarden except it terrifies me that these are grown men in power.

... it will probably be a hit TV show.

Ah... Sorry to break it to you... It seems that war is already a "hit TV show."









[Edited on 6-6-2003 by tacitblue]

[Edited on 6-6-2003 by tacitblue]

Originally posted by tacitblue
[

... it will probably be a hit TV show.

Ah... Sorry to break it to you... It seems that war is already a "hit TV show."

you are correct. Unfortunately.
i just meant a hyped-up, our robots are better than yours, sports-mentality.
and i was being mostly sarcastic, because a) war is stupid and b) politicians would continue to find reasons to send their young men to kill each other because frankly, Dead Humans will always cost less than expensive technology being destroyed.
and of course, Saving Political Face is far more important than Saving Private Ryan*.



*pardon the lame allusion.