Does Anyone Actually hate Christians??

a reply to: Annee

Doesn't surprise me though. What's funny is that the opposition to it wasn't even because it would violate the Constitution but because they considered the bible to bee too good to put next to the other less divine state symbols. They even admit that it wasn't the legal issues they had problems with because they didn't bother looking in to those anyway.

"We debated it, but never talked about the legal issues," he said. "The attorney general's opinion raises legal issues that were not discussed."

Yet isn't it the GOP who is constantly using the word Constitution about a million times in every speech??? I remember Palin wouldn't shut up about it and said "Constitution" like every other word. They sure love to say "Constitution, Freedom and Liberty" and yet I doubt they really know what they mean unless such words apply to them.

originally posted by: Annee

After the last one I said: "It doesn't matter, the message will stop others from discrimnating. No one would be stupid enough to think lightening strikes twice".

Apparently I'm wrong.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
and I'm not sure about the former.

-Albert Einstein

I love that the American Atheists had their National Convention in Tennessee.

Pretty funny.

a reply to: Entreri06

I don't hate anybody. I do hate certain attitudes and behavior, and I do detest being judged by those unqualified to do so, especially if their religion specifically says not to judge. I don't believe there are 72 virgins awaiting idiots that kill themselves and others, and I hate that far too many people act like sheep and lose all sense of reason and logic in the face of what should be obvious as falsehoods. Wait... can I add crooked politicians?

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Annee

Sometimes it makes me wish there really is a God and he's just waiting for these kinds of people so when they meet God is there with a disappointed look on his face and says,
"Oh I see here you like to discriminate against your fellow brothers and sisters huh. You like telling them they aren't welcome just because of who they are. Well, I always said treat other like you like to be treated so guess what, You're not welcome here. Maybe there is a Heaven somewhere down the road that will accept your kind."

I have often wondered this. I'm agnostic atheist, I don't believe but I'm open to proof. Let's say for the sake of this that God was real. What if the Bible was a test.? To root out all the bigoted, racist people? I think if God was really going to write a book giving us his list of do's and don'ts, it would be a lot less vague and open to interpretation. So maybe he gave us the Bible as a test to see how many of us would read it and spot the awful bits.

a reply to: Megatronus

What if the Bible was a test.? To root out all the bigoted, racist people?

Yep that's what Jesus did.

originally posted by: Megatronus

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Annee

Sometimes it makes me wish there really is a God and he's just waiting for these kinds of people so when they meet God is there with a disappointed look on his face and says,
"Oh I see here you like to discriminate against your fellow brothers and sisters huh. You like telling them they aren't welcome just because of who they are. Well, I always said treat other like you like to be treated so guess what, You're not welcome here. Maybe there is a Heaven somewhere down the road that will accept your kind."

I have often wondered this. I'm agnostic atheist, I don't believe but I'm open to proof. Let's say for the sake of this that God was real. What if the Bible was a test.? To root out all the bigoted, racist people? I think if God was really going to write a book giving us his list of do's and don'ts, it would be a lot less vague and open to interpretation. So maybe he gave us the Bible as a test to see how many of us would read it and spot the awful bits.

So you are saying that people who believe in the Bible, the Christians are bigoted, racist people?

What if I said agnostic atheists because they don't believe in the Bible, are bigoted racist people?

How does that sound to you? Sounds bigoted and prejudiced to me.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Annee

No Room for Gay Republicans at Colorado Conservative Conference
Organizers of the Western Conservative Summit have told Log Cabin Republicans it can't have a booth there because Log Cabin 'exists to redefine the family.'

This is just mean spirited and wrong. I mean I understand that they have different views on some issues but these are people within their own party who are trying to be a part of the process in the right way and get some kind of dialog going and they are being marginalized and silenced. All that shows is how afraid the rest of the GOP is to even discuss this. It also shows total disrespect for free speech and the democratic process by blackballing them in any way they can. That is exactly what fascism is and these two faced pricks embrace it knowingly and willingly while screaming about protecting freedom. What total BS liars they are. What they really mean is Freedom for them but screw anyone else.

I hope it's stuff like this that costs them everything. Their jobs, their positions of power and influence, their money flow, everything. At this point it's not even about why they're doing this stuff. It's just the fact that they are doing it at all, regardless of what the issue is because if they'll do it against gays they'll do it against anyone or anything else just as quickly until nobody has any freedom but themselves.

Let me rephrase what you said:

You mean like the current administration who used the IRS to try and squash any groups that disagreed with them politically. That is such fascism and they are really two faced .... embracing totalitarian values knowingly and willingly while screaming about protecting freedom. What total BS liars they are. What they really mean is Freedom for their point of view but screw anyone else.

When people say stuff like Climate change deniers should all go to jail or be killed, like the Democratic leaders have said. I hope it's stuff like this that costs them everything. Well their jobs, their positions of power and influence, their money flow, everything. It's just the fact that they are saying it at all, regardless of what the issue is because if they'll do it against people who simply disagree with them on Climate Change they'll do it against anyone or anything else just as quickly until nobody has any freedom freedom of speech but themselves

Yeah, I hate it that the current administration has enlarged the NSA, and used the NSA to collect phone calls and emails of all americans to keep "in case they need it" later, for what? That is such fascism and they are really two faced .... embracing facist values knowingly and willingly while screaming about protecting freedom. What total BS liars they are.

Sounds really awful and ugly now, doesn't it?
This is what it sounds like to me.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So then move on..

Not even away from the thread, there are other aspects we can discuss that may actually lead to mutual understanding rather than a typical ATS religion thread. It takes everyone involved to create that new cultural story though.

My question earlier was how do we determine when something has moved from a persecution complex to actual persecution?

When someone goes door to door to businesses they know are owned by a certain group.

Looking for an owner to say something that their group finds offensive, and goading them into saying it, using hypotheticals, not even a real request, just asking a hypothetical question.

For the express purpose of causing the business owner such grief that he/she will have to close their business and lose their livelihood. Knowing that the result will also most likely be a spate of death threats against the business owner and their family.

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: SSFFlood
i personally dont really hate much, however, christians are the most pushy bunch i've ever come across.

well you see, here we have a problem regarding world views. in the world view of many christians, abortion is not a good thing. in the world view of a secularist (who may or may not be an atheist, agnostic, christian, etc), abortion is a life-saving tool. all of these groups have a right to vote. and all are pushing their personal world view. if you want to force them to mirror your world view, you have left the domain of freedom and entered into totalitarianism. if it swings to far in either direction, we are all screwed cause totalitarians, suck rotten tomatoes and are mostly psychopathic control freaks.

You are projecting something onto others that is not true. Christians certainly understand that abortion can be a life-saving tool when the life of the mother is at risk. That is one reason I support abortion up until the time when the baby can survive on it's own (24 weeks), at which point if the Mother's life is at risk and induced birth should be the option.

When you speak of forcing people to mirror your world view. I know what you mean Climate Change believers are the worst, I believe Al Gore suggested jailing deniers, and another liberal leader said they should all be killed. I mean if you want to force them to mirror your world view, you have left the domain of freedom and entered into totalitarianism.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
SIGH

What I see is non-believers ascribing things to believers and believers to non-believers and not much sense to any of it. Both sides doing the same to the other and blind to that.

"Does Anyone Actually hate Christians??" Yes I'm sure some do and I'm just as sure some Christians hate those who are not. I don't see a reason for, let alone the upside of a discussion about it. To not realize hate exists in all groups for many reasons is to be blind and so full of ourselves as to not even realize, its a two sided coin.

Like I said, "SIGH

"

Now that I have some time to come back to this thread.

It is because of me that the OP started this thread.

I kept and will keep on, calling out statements about Christians that are bigoted, prejudiced and mean spirited.

I made the mistake in many of my posts of saying that I see a lot of hating on Christians, and I used the term hate a great deal. I should have used the words bigoted and prejudiced and mean spirited.

I just got real tired of the super ugly, almost cartoonish and evil characterizations of Christians as an all inclusive group. This type of rhetoric is running rampant in the US right now. It is not ok to say bigoted or prejudiced things against Muslims, Blacks, Hispanics - but it is perfectly ok to say the exact same bigoted remarks about Christians. The last time a religious group (historically) was deemed a proper target for evil characterizations there was a little thing that resulted in krystalnacht. So, I feel it is my mission to point out that it is not ok to say things about Christians that is it not ok to say about any other group.

originally posted by: grandmakdw


When you speak of forcing people to mirror your world view. I know what you mean Climate Change believers are the worst, I believe Al Gore suggested jailing deniers, and another liberal leader said they should all be killed. I mean if you want to force them to mirror your world view, you have left the domain of freedom and entered into totalitarianism.

Don't forget about the religious lawyer in California who is trying to get legislation passed that would make it legal to kill gays. Or the preacher who told his congregation that gays should be executed. So have they left the domain of freedom and entered into totalitarianism?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DeadSeraph

A Christian theocracy is FAR more likely than a Muslim theocracy. That's for sure.

I disagree a totalitarian government is the most likely right now.

The current administration has enlarged the NSA to track literally everyone in the US's phone calls and to save all their emails - just in case they need them for something later - like what?
The current administration is training the American people to quietly accept invasive body searches through the much more invasive rules at the airport, and allowing agents to search little old ladies and forcing them to remove their depends, and feeling up men for fun (check the latest news on that one)

People who have said things in private conversations that might be considered racist are being fired from their jobs and get death threats. That is the national sport of the day among those who seek to have everyone think "properly" - or else, that's not totalitarian is it?

Business owners are being literally hunted down for death threats because someone goaded them into saying something stupid. That's not facist is it? Goading someone into saying something and then shutting down their business for saying it.

National leaders like Al Gore saying everyone who doesn't believe in climate change should be jailed. Well, that's not facist at all, is it?

The group that is out hunting for people to suppress
and actually is succeeding in hurting people
in real and concrete ways
are the thought police
(liberal thought being the only acceptable way to think)
and freedom of speech deniers
(don't slip up and say anything even remotely politically incorrect or you might be publicly humiliated and lose your job and your reputation, even if you say it in private, and don't in any way treat anyone badly or with prejudice)

Yes, the people with the real power in the US right now
are heading us on the path of a 1984 style totalitarianism,
and that is far far more likely to happen,
because IT IS happening
than a Christian Theocracy.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: grandmakdw


When you speak of forcing people to mirror your world view. I know what you mean Climate Change believers are the worst, I believe Al Gore suggested jailing deniers, and another liberal leader said they should all be killed. I mean if you want to force them to mirror your world view, you have left the domain of freedom and entered into totalitarianism.

Don't forget about the religious lawyer in California who is trying to get legislation passed that would make it legal to kill gays. Or the preacher who told his congregation that gays should be executed. So have they left the domain of freedom and entered into totalitarianism?

And do either of these wackos have any sort of power? I admit there are wackos in every group. These guys are totally powerless and no one will listen to them.

I do believe Al Gore was, let's see, ummmm
Vice President of the US
and he has real power and influence.

John Kerry who I believe is thinking of running again for President,
and ran for President of the US.
Said that Climate Change Deniers should "pay a price" for their unbelief.

These people have real power and a real ability to force legislation where the wackos you mentioned are just that little ole wackos that no one pays attention to except to make fun of.

The real power is to force ideas and create totalitarian regimes right now lies in the hands of those who support Kerry and Gore.

Your examples are just plain straw men whose weird ideas will blow away in the wind.

a reply to: grandmakdw

And if you think that any legislation will pass that will make it legal to kill or jail people who don't agree with climate change, you are throwing out a few straw men yourself.

a reply to: grandmakdw

You are wasting your time. These people can't be reasoned with.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: grandmakdw

And if you think that any legislation will pass that will make it legal to kill or jail people who don't agree with climate change, you are throwing out a few straw men yourself.

What I'm saying is, it is far far more dangerous
in real time, and for real people
for former Vice Presidents of the US
and a very very influential leader
and a person who almost was elected
President of the US
to call for suppression of thought

than for some little wackos no one ever heard of
who said some ridiculous things.

Al Gore, and John Kerry calling for people
who THINK differently than they do
to be jailed or "punished" is a real and true danger to people in the US,
simply because they are real leaders with real power and influence.
They also represent a leadership in their party
that has a mindset that it is acceptable to punish
(I mean real punishment, not just "judging others", but really punish)
those whose only crime is to disagree with you.

This is far, far, far more dangerous to the US population
and has a much greater chance of coming to fruition
than an imaginary future Theocracy.

I'm not saying that for the short term anyone will be jailed for thinking Climate Change is a natural life cycle of the earth as has been demonstrated in ice core and geological samples, and is not man made.

I am saying that the totalitarian regime is quite likely
because the US is already on the path to it right now
through the rampant supression of people with
"incorrect: politically incorrect thoughts or words.
The people who have the power to make this happen
are real and are in power right now.

a reply to: grandmakdw

You are using hyperbole and straw men to try to prove your point. The government is not now nor will it ever punish people for having "incorrect thoughts or words", unless those words are to incite violence. What the government WILL do is to hold people accountable for discriminating against a group of citizens for no other reason then that they are part of that group.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: grandmakdw

You are wasting your time. These people can't be reasoned with.

You are probably correct.
But there are many who just read the threads, and they can be influenced.

Just to let you know where I stand. I am really a Libertarian in my political views.

I see that currently Christians are the national hunting sport for
many, as evidenced in the hunt and tried to kill
Pizza parlor event. They were actually hunted and then received
so many death threats they had to close down.

I am taking the example of Jesus who called out Pharisees and Sadducees,
who thought they had all the best and most correct ideas of the day,
and that anyone who opposed them had to be squashed.
Jesus also overturned the tables at the temple
(the established place of the Pharisees and Sadducees).

I see modern liberalism
(not the old fashioned JFK liberalism)
but neo-liberalism as
being actually using dirty tactics to try
and destroy people, literally,
for simply having thoughts and ideas different than theirs.

They have been upping the anty
and begun actually hunting people
to destroy for being politically incorrect.

I see this as dangerous, not just to Christians,
but eventually to everyone in the US.

When incorrect thought becomes a reason to
hunt down people, and take private conversations
and make them public to destroy someone,
it is dangerous.

For how long will it be until "you" have an
incorrect thought or saying something the
people in power deem politically incorrect?
We have passed the stage of name calling
and entered an era of death threats for
incorrect thought or slip of the tongue.

Worse of all, it is people who truly have
the power to influence the government
to actually do something
like Gore and Kerry
and others who are championing
punishment of incorrect thought.

And from what I have seen on this thread.
Christianity is now politically incorrect thought.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: grandmakdw

You are using hyperbole and straw men to try to prove your point. The government is not now nor will it ever punish people for having "incorrect thoughts or words", unless those words are to incite violence. What the government WILL do is to hold people accountable for discriminating against a group of citizens for no other reason then that they are part of that group.

www.huffingtonpost.com...
I believe a private conversation he had ended up in him losing his team and his reputation was ruined. Even though he never behaved in a prejudiced or racist way or discriminated anyone.