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Does Anyone Actually hate Christians??

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posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

Oh I know what you were doing.




posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

So then move on..

Not even away from the thread, there are other aspects we can discuss that may actually lead to mutual understanding rather than a typical ATS religion thread. It takes everyone involved to create that new cultural story though.

My question earlier was how do we determine when something has moved from a persecution complex to actual persecution?
edit on 16-4-2015 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DeadSeraph

Oh I know what you were doing.


Glad one of us has it figured out. To be perfectly honest, I have no idea what I'm doing. I just sort of wing it.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: Answer




At the end of the day, this "your psychopaths killed more people than my psychopaths" argument is incredibly stupid and pointless.

Mass-murdering psychopaths are insane. Who cares what they use as justification for their evil?

Atheist psychos kill people who are different. Religious psychos kill people who are different. Intolerance and hate are the cause, not the leader's supposed belief-system.

The excuse for mass-murder generally can be summarized as: "those people are not exactly like I think they should be so they must die."


Thanks for your post ... It sums up quite clearly what I would have wished to say myself

Labels are labels and they all tagged on to the same thing ... Human Beings

As you say ... It is the state of mind of Humans that is at question not superficial labels



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: Krazysh0t
My question earlier was how do we determine when something has moved from a persecution complex to actual persecution?


I'll attempt to tackle this question.

Persecution happens when a group is actively trying to keep another group from accessing the same resources, rights, privileges, etc that any other group has access to. So the shift from persecution complex to persecution would be when the actual things being done to Christians actually hinders their rights instead of taking away a privilege that heavily favored Christians and has been in effect for so long that Christians mistakenly think it has always been the case.

For example: Remove the practice of swearing on a bible before giving testimony in court. That is an extended privilege afforded to Christians that no other religion has. If we were to go about trying to abolish the practice, naturally a bunch of Christians will climb out of the woodwork and scream persecution. But that isn't persecution. That is just evening the playing field for everyone else. HOWEVER, if by that same token we forced all Christians and only Christians to strap on a lie detector before giving testimony in court, THAT would be actual persecution.

Another example, much of what Christians say and try to do to Muslims in this country is actual persecution (complaining about building a Mosque at ground zero, derisively calling the President a Muslim like that would be illegal, actively hinder legislation from Muslims for fear of "Sharia Law", etc).



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t
Will do.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Just stfu. Seriously. Christians get beheaded and persecuted every day in other countries. You don't have to deal with it because you live in a free country, partly founded by Christians and protected by Christians who fight for your damned right to believe you are under threat from a theocracy of Christians. Just shut up. Persecution complex indeed.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:35 AM
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edit on 16-4-2015 by DeadSeraph because: sorry not sorry (Canadian)



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:40 AM
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My original post:





America is a Secular Republic. But, the Right Wing Fundamentalist Christians are doing their damnedest to make it a Theocracy.

Not only is that unfair and intrusive to non-believers, it's also unfair snd intrusive to evey other non-Christian belief and moderate Christians as well.


Notice:

1. Right Wing Fundamentalist Christians (not all Christians)
2. "doing their damnedest" - - as in Trying - - I never said it would/could happen.
3. unfair to moderate Christians, as well as non-believers and other beliefs.

Their favorite targets? Women's Rights and LGBT Rights.

My stance against Christians, is political, Separation of Church and State.

If there is hate - - its in interfering and trying to deny the rights of others.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: Serdgiam
And how do we determine when something has moved from a persecution complex to actual persecution?


Christians in America are not being persecuted.

They are losing their power and control.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

An interesting view on it, but not quite addressing the question. It is also specific to locality, when speaking about a worldwide issue.

The examples you gave of persecution by Christians towards Muslims are also common in exchanges between atheist/theist. Actually, nearly every group does it towards their "opposition." I would even posit that every group is actually persecuted by opposing zealots, and with the numbers being in nearly direct proportion with the population of any given social group. You may not feel that you personally do it, but that isn't relevant. I also struggle to buy into the idea that persecution can only take place when condoned by legislation.

Rather than taking the Bible out completely, leave it as a personal choice of the person swearing? Just have the person swear on whatever they see applicable, rather than forcing adherence to other ideologies (or lack there of)?



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:50 AM
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originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: Megatronus
a reply to: Seamrog

That aside, people can not have free will wile also being part of God's plan. Either there is no plan from God or free will is an illusion.



Not so - The fact that God has a plan for your life does not mean that you have to follow it.

I think you are mistaking humans for robots.


Ah, the "free will" debate. There is no free will, it is an illusion regardless of God's "plan" once you break down the biological and physiological components of decision making. It's all a ruse. Every single neuron in your brain is responsible not in part but in whole as it pertains to your personality. Trained simultaneously to burrow deeper into your subconscious as you grow older, variably dependent on every single thing you experience from infancy. Biochemical reactions and depletion of specific hormones such as serotonin governing your every move, mood and everything you say and think.

None of this is self-regulating but rather a roller coaster of an involuntary cocktail of chemicals which we are not responsible for. Let's keep this simple. Does a predator have "free will". Sure, you will say an animal predator does not count because it does not know restraint. But what about a human predator? Do they have free will? Does a murderer have free will the same as you and I ? What was God's divine plan for a child killer before he became a child killer? What made him a child killer? Two things. Genetics and/or outside influence. Their restraint to not kill, is not the same as your restraint to not kill.
(this is why I disagree with the current prison system)

However, moving to less criminal intents to just morality issues like cheating on a spouse is also free will right? Yes and no. Whatever we choose to do now, may not be something we would normally choose to do at all. In fact, we don't know what we will ever do until we are in the situation. How we decide to react depends greatly on wisdom and experience. If you have no wisdom nor experience, who's fault is that? Will God condemn you for not knowing how to react in a situation you've never been in? I doubt it. If morality is an issue, then there's just two rules to follow instead of a 400 page dogmatic cryptic holy bible. #1 put someone before yourself # 2 do no harm. Simple.

Back to "free will" and God's destined plan, I can't see anything else being more of a chaotic mind game. It's contradictory, dichotomous and sadistic. Every single person has their own thing to find and experience. There is no "right and wrong" because those things are purely subjective based on which perspective you stand behind. Murderers live life to experience murdering, gamblers gambling, or any other facet of life you can think about. God, does not care at this point what you choose, you will only attract more of what you are. Good and bad is also very subjective but they are entirely the same thing. Wrap your head around that one if you can.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't have a whole lot of money (i.e none), but I am willing to bet the computer I am typing on that the U.S will not fall victim to a Christian theocracy.

What you don't seem to understand is, the Western world has already been under a theocracy of sorts. It might not have been overt, but the heavy influence of Christianity on the Western world is there for anyone to see. There would be no need for movements like Womens rights, Gay rights, states that still have laws on the books making it illegal for an atheist to hold public office, and so much more. All of these things are because Christianity has been the unofficial underlying government for 100's of years.

We are only now starting to break free of our oppressors, and the church sees that as hatred and persecution.


Yep! I've been watching it since the late 50s.

I was on the other side at that time - - being a "persecuted" Christian.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: Annee

I agree with the latter, the former.. not so much.

Either way, it has nothing to do with the question, which attempts to go beyond any single ideology that you may dislike.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 12:03 PM
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Hate them? No. That's silly.

Pity them? Oh yes.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: Annee
Yeah, I felt persecuted myself back in the day. I just knew the devil was out to get me. Crafty rascal that he is. Lol.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Millions of 2 year olds died because they were starved to death and from religious families under various atheist regimes. What the hell is your point?

The OP... Remember that?

Are you under threat from a Christian Theocracy? LOL

No. You aren't.


And far more millions have died under Christian regimes. Not because they are Christian specifically (just like it wasn't atheism that made them murder there citizens) , but because there have been way more Christian theocracies....



I guess you've simply forgotten things such as the Armenian Genocide in which 2 million Armenians were killed because of the Ottomans (aka Muslims), or maybe you've simply never heard of the Atheist Joseph Stalin who is responsible for up to 60 million deaths.

If your talking about leaders or rulers of a particular Religion and citing them as reasons Christianity is bad I point you to Mao Zedong and his great leap forward, that only cost what 30 million Chinese lives? Maybe you've never heard of Pol Pot, under his short four year rule, Cambodia took 25% hit to their population. Maybe youre to busy crying about how the US dropped 2 nuclear bombs on Japan to remember that under their Shinto leader, Emperor Hirohito they butchered nigh on ten million.

Tell me again how Christianity is responsible for more atrocities than the few I just listed. Stop being ignorant, I'm sorry the truth hurts.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 12:08 PM
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a reply to: Alekto

Why do you pity me? Careful not to run off into assumption land!


Why would you pity an entire group anyway, some of which are some of the most evil people on the planet?



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: chuck258

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Millions of 2 year olds died because they were starved to death and from religious families under various atheist regimes. What the hell is your point?

The OP... Remember that?

Are you under threat from a Christian Theocracy? LOL

No. You aren't.


And far more millions have died under Christian regimes. Not because they are Christian specifically (just like it wasn't atheism that made them murder there citizens) , but because there have been way more Christian theocracies....



I guess you've simply forgotten things such as the Armenian Genocide in which 2 million Armenians were killed because of the Ottomans (aka Muslims), or maybe you've simply never heard of the Atheist Joseph Stalin who is responsible for up to 60 million deaths.

If your talking about leaders or rulers of a particular Religion and citing them as reasons Christianity is bad I point you to Mao Zedong and his great leap forward, that only cost what 30 million Chinese lives? Maybe you've never heard of Pol Pot, under his short four year rule, Cambodia took 25% hit to their population. Maybe youre to busy crying about how the US dropped 2 nuclear bombs on Japan to remember that under their Shinto leader, Emperor Hirohito they butchered nigh on ten million.

Tell me again how Christianity is responsible for more atrocities than the few I just listed. Stop being ignorant, I'm sorry the truth hurts.

Covered by Dead Seraph. You might want to go back about 3 or 4 pages and catch up. But I'll give you my answer then and now...



And...?

Atheists have never claimed to be the moral compass of the universe. Comparing Christian atrocities to the secular worlds atrocities is apples and oranges at best. Christianity doesn't get to claim the high ground, and then say, "you did it too!"



And history is rife with Christians killing heathens by the droves. We can match murders all day long. You still don't get to claim the high moral ground, and say "you guys did it too."

Pages 25-27.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 12:37 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Annee
Yeah, I felt persecuted myself back in the day. I just knew the devil was out to get me. Crafty rascal that he is. Lol.



Atheism much better for me. Personal Responsibilty. So honest. Integrity required.

All decision are mine and all consequences good/bad that go with it.

No "go to guy" forgiveness. No excuses.



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