The future of Europe and the USA

a reply to: Jonjonj

We are moving to counter Russia and China ,haven't you been reading all the crap about Empirialist or Colonialist America?
The Ukraine is a mess agreed but we are countering them with a missile shield in Poland,patrolling the Back Sea. Showing the Flag on Russian borders,with tripwire forces.
We some how elected an acutivist who appears to be socially attacking from the inside.
Once we are free of the burden then, probably, we will start the same cold war games you are quite familiar with.
If Hillarie is elected I expect WWIII as HER foreign policies are mostly for her profit making schemes,like her hisband who sold China ICBM capability in the guise of a space program.

I f we elect Jeb Bush I would imagine alot of black ops stuff would start to happen with nothing being attributed to the US until they have NO choice but to abide by treaties.
And even then ONLY when they have a world concensis after the bodies stack up.

a reply to: boymonkey74

They chose not to get involved because Alexander Haig said no. Good job Reagan didn't just out and out denigrate us to the UN.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Used to be Great now full of hate, Look at the amount of kids been abused by MP peodophiles, look at the secret courts look at children who were raped and blew the whistle like Melanie shaw who now taklen to a secret court and jailed in a private prison, look at the sealed papers with D notices sealed for a 100 years to stop people finding out the amount of abuse.

Research all that and the cover ups the amount of enquires pulled by chief inspectors and then tell me Britain is Great

a reply to: Jonjonj

That is my question. I wanted to know how US citizens felt about it. So far I have seen a mix, but nothing resembling absolute backing, weird that isn't it?

According the the cold war proponents NATO has protected Western Europe from the Soviets up until the Warsaw Pact disbanded and they left Eastern Europe.

Looking back one might conclude that the only thing stopping NATO's further encroachment into Europe was the Soviet backed Warsaw Pact. Look whats happened since it disbanded and the Russians went home?

Watch how many Pro NATO posters will pounce on that statement. As far as will US have your back if Russia invades? If Russia invades it will be to kill NATO not you, just like the Soviets stopped in WWII after they destroyed the Third Reich. They weren't after France… How much killing will depend on how many NATO bases are in your country and whether NATO resorts to nuclear weapons stationed in Europe.

originally posted by: abeverage
Help you with what? This generic line of questioning is making me feel horrible, angry, perhaps a bit conquering, definitely invading and the devil is in the lack of details...

But I am a Britophile if that helps? Send a striking little bird my way to talk in my ear and I will gladly fight fer yer queen!

I don't see who this is aimed at, help a poor idiot.

a reply to: boymonkey74

The US provided the UK the latest version of the Sidewinder missile, and was prepared to loan them the USS Iwo Jima if one of their carriers was damaged.

a reply to: Jonjonj

If there is a $ to be made, you can bet the US will back the UK, or any other country for that mater. TPTB will probably support both sides, just like they did before and during WW2. You want help, send us your gold.

originally posted by: Jonjonj
So how much can we actually count on the USA to be on our side?

Good question isn't it?

Let's look at this from a historical perspective.

When we were at war, trying to survive, in the great war, where was the USA? They sent us boats right? Absolute neutrality was the order of the day though.

They came and saved the day in 1917-18 just as we were all finished.

WWII. Not until the Japanese actually bombed Pearl Harbour did they deem to help their closest and best ally. Their richest families did help the Germans AND the British though, with finance. Not a word about the German expansion pre-Poland.

So my question is simple. How much can we rely on our "Best Friends" to look after us when it has been clearly demonstrated historically that they basically don't give a #e about us?

I didn't mention the Falklands, Korea or all those other minor inconveniences for a reason.

I bring this up because I can honestly see a European wide war in the not too distant future, and I can see American isolationism as the response.

Fed up and angry.

You are from Madrid right?
Where was Spain during WW2 ?
According to Wikipedia Franco's regime did supply material and military support to the Axis Powers in recognition of the heavy assistance it had received in the Spanish Civil War. Why should the US help an enemy, after all " the friend of my enemy is not my friend.

a reply to: Nickn3

What does Spain have to do with this? Other than the argument that it is in Europe that is... CONFUSED

a reply to: Zaphod58

America walked away from the Falklands like a pimp from his pro and you know it man.

originally posted by: Jonjonj

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Jonjonj

I bring this up because I can honestly see a European wide war in the not too distant future, and I can see American isolationism as the response.

Fed up and angry.

I don't blame you. Look at how many times we invaded and abandoned Iraq to their own devices? After all you and the Middle East are a long way from America's Homeland. After all, the two big moats called the Pacific and Atlantic protect the North American Continent.

After all the battleground is Europe, not the US, after all.

And that is the point I wanted to make, can we count on the USA to have our back, historically not so much.

Have we defended them, I think there is no question that we have, both in word AND deed. I don't have the same confidence of reciprocity. If ya mate has got ya back one day, you got his back the next...right? That is my question. I wanted to know how US citizens felt about it. So far I have seen a mix, but nothing resembling absolute backing, weird that isn't it?

Unfortunately, our citizens cannot speak for our government, anymore than our government still truly speaks for its people. I would take up arms to defend the UK. I would shout from the hills to the valleys for the rest of the nation to do the same. But would anyone listen? I have no idea.

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: Nickn3

What does Spain have to do with this? Other than the argument that it is in Europe that is... CONFUSED

You are from Madrid Spain aren't you? You asked . When have the Spanish jumped into a conflict with complete commitment to aid the US?

a reply to: Jonjonj

You should tell that to the people in the UK government that say differently. Obviously you know better than they do.

No the US didn't fight with the UK, but that doesn't mean they stood by and did nothing either.

originally posted by: Nickn3

originally posted by: Jonjonj
So how much can we actually count on the USA to be on our side?

Good question isn't it?

Let's look at this from a historical perspective.

When we were at war, trying to survive, in the great war, where was the USA? They sent us boats right? Absolute neutrality was the order of the day though.

They came and saved the day in 1917-18 just as we were all finished.

WWII. Not until the Japanese actually bombed Pearl Harbour did they deem to help their closest and best ally. Their richest families did help the Germans AND the British though, with finance. Not a word about the German expansion pre-Poland.

So my question is simple. How much can we rely on our "Best Friends" to look after us when it has been clearly demonstrated historically that they basically don't give a #e about us?

I didn't mention the Falklands, Korea or all those other minor inconveniences for a reason.

I bring this up because I can honestly see a European wide war in the not too distant future, and I can see American isolationism as the response.

Fed up and angry.

You are from Madrid right?
Where was Spain during WW2 ?
According to Wikipedia Franco's regime did supply material and military support to the Axis Powers in recognition of the heavy assistance it had received in the Spanish Civil War. Why should the US help an enemy, after all " the friend of my enemy is not my friend.

Oh dear, I am sorry, you are labouring under the misconception that because my profile says Madrid that I am Spanish.

Firstly I am English.
Secondly I am back in Uk on a visit.
Thirdly...well there really doesn't need to be a thirdly does there?

Canadian here. Love me some bangers and mash. And UK women.

10/10 would fight

originally posted by: boymonkey74
What happened during the Falkland war btw? did the Americans do anything to help either side?...never really thought of the question?.

The Falklands was in no way, whatsoever, an existential threat to GB. This isn't even remotely is the same category. It was a colonial uprising, basically. And the threat of Russia is live or die.
So, honestly, the Falklands cannot even be factored into this.

a reply to: Zaphod58

So you would say then that the support we received from the US was adequate with regards to the "special relationship" we are supposed to have? Really?

Anyway, my point about NOT including the Falklands was precisely this one. We shouldn't ask for help on every petty thing.

Now though this isn't petty is it, so the question is more important.

a reply to: Jonjonj

Your quote shows nothing of the actual historical events that occurred during the time frame in which you speak. First. It was the sinking of the Lusitania by Germany that brought the USA into ww1. Do you understand why they sunk her? she was carrying weapons and supplies to England and france. Actually we were doing that for quite some time before we entered the war, never mind the fact that americans volunteered into the british as well as French armies to fight for you Europeans. That's beside the point.

Next, You ever wonder why the Japanese attacked pearl Harbor? well I'll tell you, because the French, English, Dutch, and Danish Pacific Fleets had a blockade on mainland japan, hurting there war effort in China and mainland Asia. Those fleets fought against an enemy conquering there colonies, even though there homelands had already been defeated. Do you know where they were based out of? Ya, Pearl Harbor, The Japanese attacked to not only cripple the USA and knock us quickly out of WW2, but to destroy the base of operations to the ships blockading them, which allowed natural resources to surge into the country and spur the war effort on. Unfortunately the Japanese lost too many air craft carriers and after that was forced to a defensive war, which ultimately they knew they couldn't maintain, as there generals knew that the longer the USA was in the war, the harder it would be for them to win. Thing is, you again forget, there was American airmen in Europe fighting with the Brits, and French, there was American Naval men putting there life on the line to resupply war ships that were fighting on, and it was 3000 americans that died at Pearl Harbor because while we were sick and tired of war, it was our factories spurning out planes, tanks, and guns, that kept hitler out of Moscow, as well as kept Japan out of Australia. Further, after pearl harbor, we mobilized and fought hard to defend a free Europe.

This is why NATO was formed, This is why you have American soldiers in just about every NATO country, albeit a small contingent in some, but in all of them. This is why the U.S.A. has 30,000 men stationed on the border with North Korea, even though there life expectancy is literally 30 seconds if North Korea ever decided to use its 1.5 million artillery pieces it has aimed at them and seoul. You think America is just going to watch American soldiers die and withdraw before we even got into a fight? Then you sir, are a %*&^ing idiot. We might think the brits are uppity, and the French idiots, but you know what, your OUR UPPITY COUSINS, and IDIOT uncles. Put simply your family, yes we might be cowboys with a hero complex, arrogant, egotistically, unclean, unshaven brutes with no sophistication, but it wont stop us from putting our beer down, and whooping anyones ass the messes with our family.

Will things change in the future? Absolutely, but nothing will ever change the core alliance that the U.S. has with Japan, South Korea, and all our NATO allies. PS, don't forget you Aussies and NZ either. Your one of us.

Cheers,

Camain
Proud American

a reply to: Retikx

Lol you sir deserve a lollipop if only for humour!

a reply to: pfishy

lol, people in the UK stand at a bus top and ignore a girl screaming getting raped, they ignore a young girl getting attacked on a train, they let their disabled be treat the same as the nazis treated their disabled, they turn a blind eye and let children be molested in their thousands, they refuse to defend children going hungry and pensioners dying of cold in an oil producing nation, but if anyone dares attack this they will defend it with their last breath, rubbish' Maggie T said their was no such thing as society and boy was she right, everyone in the UK is out for there selves. Put it this way I would not fight because I could not trust others in the UK to watch my back, the invaders would be more trustworthy.