Minimum wage in the U.S.

Originally posted by shots
Pinapple what we re talking about is supporting a family with a minimum wage. This has nothing to do with being a student. It is fine that you are working and can afford some of those extras. The question here is can you support a family or live on your own at those wages?

Answer thequestion honestly, do you think that you can support yourself all alone on those wages, in your area?

Please understand no offense is meant, I hope you understand.

None taken. And no, i do not believe i could live on those wages, not with the cost of living where i live.

My point is, raising the minimum wage raises the cost of living. so if you raise the minimum wage, students like me who do not need to feed families and pay rent get extra spending money, while the people making a little better than minimum wage now have to pay more as their cost of living, so its harder to get by.

That was my point.

---pineapple

None taken. And no, i do not believe i could live on those wages, not with the cost of living where i live.

My point is, raising the minimum wage raises the cost of living. so if you raise the minimum wage, students like me who do not need to feed families and pay rent get extra spending money, while the people making a little better than minimum wage now have to pay more as their cost of living, so its harder to get by.

That was my point.

---pineapple

I understand what you are saying, but no one is worried about students (again no offense meant). What mainstream Americans are worried about is supporting their families not just one person that is a student, he/she still may live at home and has parents to take care of them. Granted there are some students trying to it on their own that is not the point.

Individuals can only depend on what they can bring in on their own, they cannot depend on others, that is the point.

Originally posted by shots
I understand what you are saying, but no one is worried about students (again no offense meant).

Are you even reading what im saying?

I agree that its not about students. So why are you trying to raise the cost of living for everyone, since students are the ones that will benifit, not the people trying to support families?

---pineapple

Simply put:

Be prepared for the 5 dollar Big Mac.

Bigger wages for the un-skilled, equals bigger prices, period..

It's another form of Welfare.
And another reason for people to NOT better themselves with New skills or Education.

In Holland you have this meager minimumwage (goes up with age), but in contrast you have pretty decent subsidizing rental costs for people with lower incomes, this way you can get away a low "student" type minimumwage , but ensure that caring fammilies don't have to turn every nickel and dime twice.....

Still living in America beats Holland big time if you are ueber rich, but for a large groups of the semi-succesfull I would say that Canada, scandinavia, holland is not bad...


[edit on 22-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

Well minimum wage is not supposed to be a livable wage. It is for high school or college kids just starting out in the work force.

Well put.

Minimum Wage should NOT be enough to support a family. If you are making minimum wage, a good idea is probably to wait until you are more skilled, and get a better paying job before having a kid perhaps?

While going to college (I got to go because of my grades, and working for it in high school, my parents didn't pay a dime of it...and no loans for me) I made minimum wage (or just above it, as a grocery store stock clerk). I had a crappy little studio apartment, rode a cheap motorcycle (cost me $475 cash, and about $2 a week in gas...didn't have to have insurance). I didn't live well, but I got by. It's up to the individual to develop marketable skills to earn a bigger paycheck.

Sure, we'd all like to see a higher minimum wage, but at the cost of businesses that rely on them folding (thus losing jobs and creating more unemployment), or spending $5 for a burger that now costs $2, etc. Is that realistic?

Originally posted by pineappleupsidedown

Originally posted by shots
I understand what you are saying, but no one is worried about students (again no offense meant).

Are you even reading what im saying?

I agree that its not about students. So why are you trying to raise the cost of living for everyone, since students are the ones that will benifit, not the people trying to support families?

---pineapple

Yes I am reading what you are saying, and no I disagree that raising the minimum wage will rase the cost of living.

As FredT pointed out in California some Starbucks pay 10-12 bucks an hour. Is the price of their coffee 5 to 7 dollars a cup higher? No it isn't. I know for a fact some Burger Kings and McDonalds pay 8.50 and hour in this area, yet the prices of the burgers are the very same as those areas that only pay 5.50 or 7 and hour.

If we were to use your theory their prices should be higher. Care to explain why they aren't?

A minimum wage insures that we don't have people coherced into working for wages that aren't fair or reasonable. That we move away from the sweat house mentality, that we have some safeguard towards preventing the abuse of employees.

Btw:

Year Minimum Wage and value in 1996 Dollars
1955 0.75 4.39
1956 1.00 5.77
1957 1.00 5.58
1958 1.00 5.43
1959 1.00 5.39
1960 1.00 5.30
1961 1.15 6.03
1962 1.15 5.97
1963 1.25 6.41
1964 1.25 6.33
1965 1.25 6.23
1966 1.25 6.05
1967 1.40 6.58
1968 1.60 7.21
1969 1.60 6.84
1970 1.60 6.47
1971 1.60 6.20
1972 1.60 6.01
1973 1.60 5.65
1974 2.00 6.37
1975 2.10 6.12
1976 2.30 6.34
1977 2.30 5.95
1978 2.65 6.38
1979 2.90 6.27
1980 3.10 5.90
1981 3.35 5.78
1982 3.35 5.45
1983 3.35 5.28
1984 3.35 5.06
1985 3.35 4.88
1986 3.35 4.80
1987 3.35 4.63
1988 3.35 4.44
1989 3.35 4.24
1990 3.80 4.56
1991 4.25 4.90
1992 4.25 4.75
1993 4.25 4.61
1994 4.25 4.50
1995 4.25 4.38
1996 4.75 4.75
1997 5.15 5.03
1998 5.15 4.96
1999 5.15 4.85
2000 5.15 4.69
2001 5.15 4.56
2002 5.15 4.49
2003 5.15 4.39
2004 5.15 4.42

Or a graph showing in 2004 dollar values:




From:

www.epinet.org...

If the government wants to get involved and make a minimum wage, then they should also make a maximum wage. 6-figures, then you're cut off.

I make 19.50 and hour, plus 10 hours a week overtime. I gross about $1000.00 a week. I also have a wife and 2 children. I have a mortgage. After all the bills are payed, I'm left with about $75.00 a week. What we need in America is more help for those with children, as they do in Germany.

Let's see, according to some, the price of a McDonalds hamburger would go up about three dollars if the minimum wage was risen by a couple dollars. Okay, so, how many people does it take to produce that burger? About three, so for one hour of service, the increase wage expense would be, let's see.....around $6.....so, wonder how many burgers can be produced and sold at, according to some......$5 a peice, just to make up for this increase in the minimum wage....... I beleive they could produce and more than two at that price, which is all that they need to to make up for the increase in the wage..........
ain't talking about the danged taxes our fine government slaps on.....since well, they shouldn't be so greedy to begin with. If their taxes interferes with companies being able to pay a decent wage, well, that's between the gov't and the danged employee!

Most of the estimates of the effects of an increase in minimum wage that I have seen appear to be greatly exagerated.......unless of course, a company has THE SLOWEST EMPLOYEES ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET!!

Originally posted by dawnstar
Let's see, according to some, the price of a McDonalds hamburger would go up about three dollars if the minimum wage was risen by a couple dollars.

THE SLOWEST EMPLOYEES ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET!!

LOL, can they get any Slower than they are now?

Yes I was exaggerating about the burger price. I don't even go to Mcdonalds any more.
IN-AND-OUT Burger ( a west coast chain), Is the only fast food I go for now. And believe it or not, it's for a related reason. They pay a higher wage, and expect to get employees that deserve it. They are not forced to pay this wage, but they are obviously picky about who they hire.

It's more likely that there will just be fewer employees to offer up that wonderful Fast-Food style customer service.

Same thing would probably be true of other minimum wage jobs. There will be fewer to be had.

Originally posted by shots
If we were to use your theory their prices should be higher. Care to explain why they aren't?

Plz do not think i am trolling. You are directing these questions towards me and i am trying my best to answer them. Starbucks is not just labor. they sell coffee beans and prepackaged items and coffee mugs and board games at their store. The cost is more in the product than in the labor.

In-and-Out does pay much higher wages then other fast-food resturants. Why? They are trying to do the Christian thing: In-and-Out is an openly Christian run company.

Like Gazrok said (and the person he quoted), minimum wage is meant for the singles and students out there. At least IMO it is.

---pineapple

Aelita says:

�quote: Originally posted by Off_The_Street
I don't understand this whole minimum wage thing. A person is worth what other people are willing to pay him.
Well when a person is deperate to get moeny to buy food, that makes a lot of room for the "negotiation", right?�

Yes; and if I need you to work really badly, that makes a lot of room for �negotiation�, too. Sometimes you can negotiate from a position of strength, and sometime the other guy can. That�s the way life is sometimes. If you want to increase your strength, there are a lot of things you can do: get additional training and education, build up a reputation as a valuable teammate, move to a place were your skills are worth more, etc.

�quote:
Randy Johnson, one of the players on our home-town baseball team, makes millions of dollars, but it's not for throwing a ball; it's for selling advertising revenue on television.
Doubt that that's productive. On the other hand, if there are people that have no better things to do with their money than spend them on a baseball game, why not take the cash�.

You just answered your own question. As a matter of fact, I think it is productive, although I�m not a sports fan either.

�quote:
Having the government mandate wages is like having the government mandate prices; the result always seems to be a black market, a failure of the attempt, and a huge inflationary spike when the controls finally go away.
There are laws agains gauging, which is good. The price of de-icing salt a few years ago went up like 10-fold during the emergenecy despite the adequate supply. Free prices aren't always great.�

No, free prices aren�t always great. But they sure beat the alternative, which results in black markets, failures, and subsequent inflation.

�quote:
People who want a higher minimum wage always seem to re-think their position when I suggest raising the minimum wage to $35/hr.
You can always take things to absurd.

But I�m not taking them to the point of absurdity. The bottom line is that raising the minimum wage forces the employer to pay more, which means he will either pass along his cost of doing business to the consumer, or else go out of business. Raising the minimum wage to $35/hr would put almost every business in bankruptcy court; raising it to $10/hr would only bankrupt, say, 5 or 10 percent. But the rule still applies. And remember, the wage increase, regardless of what it is, is simply going to mean that you will pay more for whatever goods or services you purchase with those new, expensive operating costs.

�quote:
Raising the minimum wage to $10/hr wouldn't put most companies out of business, but it would put a lot of them out of businesses. If Burger King were forced to pay its employees $10/hr, it would have to sell its Whoppers for $8.50 in order to stay in business.
For one, this poisonous food should be taxed as tobacco, so $8.50 whoppers are fine�. �

My, my, my! You really seem to be a fan of big, fascist governments! I thought most of the people on this board are against a huge and powerful government; I can see that not all of us are that way. Do you also want to re-introduce the death penalty for usury and stealing bread?

�Second... If the min wage is $10, then the companies would think twice about who they are hiring for seemingly menial jobs. I'm tired of unqualified associates at Radio Shack, Wiz etc.�

Why on Earth would the the quality of service increase just because the government forces you to pay more money to the same losers that already work there?

Work with me on this, Aelita. If you pay minimum wage, you will get minimum capability. If the minimum of $6/hr will get you some high-school dropout; if the minimum wage is magically raised to $10/hr, who will be getting that $10/hr? Yes!! The same high school dropout! Helloooo! You haven�t increased the capability of the bozo, you�ve just given that same bozo a raise LOL!!

Originally posted by pineappleupsidedown

Originally posted by shots
If we were to use your theory their prices should be higher. Care to explain why they aren't?

Plz do not think i am trolling. You are directing these questions towards me and i am trying my best to answer them. Starbucks is not just labor. they sell coffee beans and prepackaged items and coffee mugs and board games at their store. The cost is more in the product than in the labor.

In-and-Out does pay much higher wages then other fast-food resturants. Why? They are trying to do the Christian thing: In-and-Out is an openly Christian run company.

Like Gazrok said (and the person he quoted), minimum wage is meant for the singles and students out there. At least IMO it is.

---pineapple

Sorry you are taking my questions as being directed just at you. That was not my intent. Remember I said; it is fine you are working and have those extra things you want. I think that is fantastic and I am sure your parents appreciate the fact that you will work to get what you want rather then ask them for an extra allowance.

I think you took this as being directed just at you and it is not.

Perhaps you should read the very first post in this thread, that is what the discussion is based on her comments nothing more.

Louise opens with

Minimum wage in the U.S. is going up from the current rate of $5.15 an hour to $7.15 by 2006, but it is still not a livable rate.

Does she mention students? No, what she is or was talking about is a liviable wage in general that means a wage that all can live on.

I think that is the point you missed and answered your questions based on what someone else posted. One has to remember that all factors of the thread are based on the original context in which they were meant.


BTW until I had read this thread I had never heard of In and Out. I have no idea what kind of organization they are and I really do not care. If they feel they want to pay more, Hey great I am all for them paying a better wage.

[edit on 12/22/2004 by shots]


[edit on 12/22/2004 by shots]

here is my problem.........NO ONE and i mean NO ONE can live comfortably on 5.50 and hour. now add kids to the equation. i am a nurse and it DISGUSTS me that i won't make in a lifetime what a movie star or sports star makes in one season. there are some real issues here. i returned to school to become a phychologist,but i still won't make that much. plus...there is no help anymore. funding for housing and daycare has been cut to nil. so what is the average working american supposed to do?

My point is that YES! minimum wage cannot support a family, or even two people on one income really. but minimum wage isn't for families. Its for students. Forget that I'm a student. It seems to make you think i am trying to justify my working. I'm not. I'm saying that the people with minimum wage jobs are not the people that need the money. I made the point about In and Out because you were asking why these stores gave better wages for the same price. That was the answer. Its not like i just threw that in for kicks.

Perhaps you should read the very first post in this thread, that is what the discussion is based on her comments nothing more.

I didnt know a discussion was only based on the first post. I've never heard that before. I guess since im just a student i havent learned stuff like that yet < /sarcasm >

I don't understand why you cant get past the point that im a student talking. Oh well, i tried, i give up.

---pineapple

[edit on 23-12-2004 by pineappleupsidedown]

If minimum wage is for students, like some are claiming, well, then the business sector is grossly abusing it!!!

Come on!! There is a McDonalds in just about every town in America, open until what.....one or two in the morning. Another source of near minimum wage jobs that wouldn't support you is from the temporary agencies who are hiring entry level factory workers, sometimes for 12 hrs. a day. These jobs are usually offer no benefits, or holiday pay, and well, I've worked for some, and know others who have. When you get to the point that you are about to become eligible for the benefits, they decide they don't have as much work as they thought, and drop you.
If they are for "students" like many are claiming, well, then The McDonalds would be mostly located around colleges and universities or they must be depending on high school students to do their work for them....which means, they wouldn't be open during school hours.

This is an example of some of the people who are working these jobs.

My son held a babysitting job over the summer a few years ago. He watched three kids while the mother worked. She was a single parent and well, the gov't was reimbursing her for her childcare costs.
They were paying her more for her childcare (close to nine dollars an hour!) than she was making.....heck more than I was making working for a print shop for three years!
I don't mind my tax money helping single parents get on their feet, but I also expect the business sector to do their part!!! Either pay them enough to cover the expenses of them working, and hey, we can still pay for their rent, housing, food, electricity, HEALTH CARE......which many of us who are footing the bill can't manage to have ourselves......
Or just let them stay home and spend their times with their kids!
But, I highly resent my taxmoney subsidizing thier jobs so they can compete with me (who wasn't eligible for this subsidy when my kids were young, so I couldn't compete).

In my opinion, it would require about $7.00-$8.00/hr to provide enough for one person to live. I've seen jobs advertised in the paper paying less, requiring one or two, or more years of experience.

Originally posted by pineappleupsidedown

I didnt know a discussion was only based on the first post. I've never heard that before. I guess since im just a student i havent learned stuff like that yet < /sarcasm >

I don't understand why you cant get past the point that im a student talking. Oh well, i tried, i give up.

---pineapple

[edit on 23-12-2004 by pineappleupsidedown]

For some reason you are still under the impression that low wages were meant only for students, that is where you got off track to begin with.

Here perhaps a definition of minimum wage will help you understand.
The key purpose of a minimum wage system is social - to prevent labor exploitation and poverty.

Just what part of the above is so hard to understand? Also note there is no mention of students at all in the definition. Why; because the purpose of the law is for everyone.

[edit on 12/23/2004 by shots]

Washington state = highest min. wage

Originally posted by psychosgirl
crap!!!! where would we be without nurses? doctors? teachers? if we can pay stars millions...then we can pay public servants more!

You can remove doctors from that list. They're well paid already. Heck, doctors live in mansions, have servants, etc.