It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russia lifts ban on delivering missile-defence system to Iran

page: 7
11
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 03:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: peck420
a reply to: yuppa
I am beyond ecstatic that you will never be planning any western military actions.

The chances of an S-300 being deployed statically, and alone, are about as likely as us every deploying a single Patriot in a field and saying we are defended.

Just by limiting ingress points, and forcing aggressors to employ terrain masking, makes Iran's defense system more effective.


See the link i linked. yes i know the second one isnt out yet with a LASER but as for everything else its coming into inventory very very soon. ANd YEah I know that a SAM wont be by itself. I assumed everyone else knew that already but i guess not. Takes 5 mins to set up a S-300 launch,but how fast can it run. faster than a satellite?

No if they decide to strike its going to come as a surprise and under the radar. As for terrain masking. the newer Anti radiation missiles can LOITER and circle the area and find a target. BEtter than the Old HAARMs thats for sure. they even can find passive targets. and in active ones too.




posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 04:02 PM
link   

originally posted by: yuppa
its going to come as a surprise and under the radar.


Yes Baldrick, they're going to dig a tunnel all the way to Tehran for the ultimate surprise.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 04:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: yuppa
Takes 5 mins to set up a S-300 launch,but how fast can it run. faster than a satellite?

Significantly faster. And in more directions.



No if they decide to strike its going to come as a surprise and under the radar. As for terrain masking. the newer Anti radiation missiles can LOITER and circle the area and find a target. BEtter than the Old HAARMs thats for sure. they even can find passive targets. and in active ones too.

Save your BS for somebody less educated. All HAARMs require some form of EM to follow. That is a physics fact. If a radar is off or running as pure passive only, there is no EM to follow. Only when it attempts to target, wirelessly communicate, or jam will it provide an EM source for a HAARM weapon. Until that point, your average pre 1980's passenger car will be producing a larger EM source than an S-300 battery...if all of the S-300 battery vehicles are running.

Also, you continue to claim that it will fly under the radar...please provide your source for which radar will be sold to Iran. If it is even only one type. One thing that has yet to be mentioned on this thread is one of the things that makes the S-300 systems so dangerous. They are plug and play modular across the entire Almaz-Antey line up. What was C-band one day, can be any other band (or any combination of bands) the next. Connect any Antey radar station to the ACS, and she is up and running. Same goes for the remainder of the Antey delivery systems. Got your S-300 battery in place and are expecting more low and slow company, roll a Tor or Osa up, and integrate her in. Need medium range support, roll up some BUK's.

Until (or if) we ever get to see the details of which ACS, which radar stations, and which weapons delivery vehicles Iran orders and receives, we will have no idea of how capable their additions are.

All we get is "S-300"...like it is one stand alone piece of equipment.
edit on 16-4-2015 by peck420 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 04:21 PM
link   
a reply to: peck420
->They are plug and play modular across the entire Almaz-Antey line up.
I've mentioned it several times (although not as eloquently). Even tried to move onto the more important last mile to target
But mysteriously, the pages keep coming with worthless junk..

It's almost like someone didn't know most everyone has now read the gentlemans guide to forum spies.
edit on 16-4-2015 by mSparks43 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 04:58 PM
link   
a reply to: peck420

New IMPROVED Anti radiation missile

Now Scroll down a bit to capabilities and guidance after. Thats just the Anti rad missile itself.

JSOW (joint stand off weapon)

JAASM standoff weapon

THOSE 3 will be used in conjunction in a Iran strike or a strike on russia or north korea if they ever need it.

SO they are not FICTION.



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 05:12 PM
link   
a reply to: yuppa
What you think they do is the fiction, not their existence.

AARGM tracks utilizing home on jam (requires target to be actively jamming), GPS/INS (great for fixed targets), and MMW active radar (communications frequency range).

JSOW tracks utilizing GPS/INS (see above) and IR (useful with batteries fully running and no decoys present).

JAASM tracks utilizing GPS/INS (see above), IR (see above), and ATR (useful with no decoys present).

So...as long as Iran does not employ standard operational procedures, or they are incredibly stupid, we will have no issues.

That's reassuring....



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 06:21 PM
link   

originally posted by: peck420
a reply to: yuppa
What you think they do is the fiction, not their existence.

AARGM tracks utilizing home on jam (requires target to be actively jamming), GPS/INS (great for fixed targets), and MMW active radar (communications frequency range).

JSOW tracks utilizing GPS/INS (see above) and IR (useful with batteries fully running and no decoys present).

JAASM tracks utilizing GPS/INS (see above), IR (see above), and ATR (useful with no decoys present).

So...as long as Iran does not employ standard operational procedures, or they are incredibly stupid, we will have no issues.

That's reassuring....



You forgot to list the new Anti radiation missiles can SEEK OUT A RADAR THATS OFF TOO. SO youre didnt read the entire article or you are just leaving it out intentionally.

Satellites can update the JAASM's GPS during flight though. Did you know that?



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 07:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: mSparks43

You should take your own advice. That's using ultra wideband Synthetic Aperture Radar to create a image, not IR. SAR can't be used to target or see an aircraft at any kind of range.


Even if IR can see the aircraft, would it be able to target it by calculating the range etc. ?



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 01:33 AM
link   
a reply to: victor7

yes.
because they work as a group to give a 3d view and triangulate position and speed.

except passive radar uses crazy math which gives beyond line of sight information letting you see behind terrain features and ignore strong signals which would otherwise saturate the receivers.
edit on 17-4-2015 by mSparks43 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 03:02 AM
link   
a reply to: mSparks43

Thanks a lot.

One more question..........does the size of the IRST radar matter in determining the range of detection. Currently airborne IRSTs on planes can detect atmost upto 60 miles only. Would increasing the size help. Read somewhere that IRST of on F-14s were really powerful due to being big in size.

S-400s under severe jamming environment can detect stealth at 60 miles or so and that is little too close for comfort.

Finally, there is a saying that F-22 has a RCS ranging from BB gun shot to a dime sized marble. Would that logic of a BB gun shot cruising at a the speed of Mach 1, help in detection and tracking. Not many objects at 50K feet cruise at Mach 1 or more.



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 03:06 AM
link   
a reply to: yuppa




Satellites can update the JAASM's GPS during flight though. Did you know that?


As to for how long will the Satellites be still functioning in the event of war between Russia and NATO...........on both the sides. Sats gone or atleast most of them might severely negate various slick services like datalinks etc.

Also, the cyberwar capabilities on both the sides will attack datalinks even if the Sats are still functioning.



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 04:42 AM
link   
a reply to: victor7

"size" -> well the example I gave earlier was the hubble telescope.
Even land based "big" ones can see space sourced IR night and day.
Daytime it gets limited by the background radiation, but they seem to be good at filtering that out with the rest of the EM spectrum.

One part of the "cog".
One thing its also easy to forget - is even if it's 60 miles from a single receiver it's not 60 miles from the launcher.
So they will be "tracking" for a thousand kilometers or more using an array of passive recievers, IR, VLF, even normal active civilian stations, then "kill" when a target is determined as a threat to a high value target, and is within range of a launcher (which will be strategically placed to protect the airspace surrounding a high value target).

For me - it's clear that getting ordinance up in the air and heading towards a target is a certainty.
What is a long way from clear is how they are achieving the >90% kill rates for each piece of ordinance on objects no larger than a small bird. (even Irans domestic manufacturers can seem to put missiles into the bridge of an inactive ship)
That is partly explained by
en.wikipedia.org...
which of course - becomes "part" of the s300 system.

then there's this.

www.jpost.com...

which i find difficult to believe. but still.
edit on 17-4-2015 by mSparks43 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 06:11 AM
link   
gotta rate this article
www.ausairpower.net...



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 01:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: peck420


Now Scroll down a bit to capabilities and guidance after. Thats just the Anti rad missile itself.

JSOW (joint stand off weapon)

JAASM standoff weapon

THOSE 3 will be used in conjunction in a Iran strike or a strike on russia or north korea if they ever need it.

SO they are not FICTION.


New IMPROVED Anti radiation missile

It can intercept targets within the range of 60+ nm
=Plane shot down before launch

www.airforce-technology.com...
The missile can reach up to a kinematic range of 130km when launched from an altitude of 40,000ft.
=Plane definitely shot down before launch

www.lockheedmartin.com...
anti-jam GPS to find a specific aimpoint on the target
=Find the general location of what shot it down, which was known before it was shot down = a good way to waste money.

I don't see anything in those links that help penetrate an advanced passive radar network, Tor-M1. 48N6E2 missile and AAA changing location on a regular basis.

And on further review of the Isreali announcement, it can be summerized as:
"If you sell the s300 to Iran we will develop the system we are developing which we think may make a bit of your system get a little bit confused"
Which, imho, will be just another expensive EM source to target.



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 01:25 PM
link   
a reply to: mSparks43

Sparky. Teh F-35 is goin gto carry the new missiles. And its got a better detection range than the f-22. No it wont be shot down before launch of it in a ECM environment and Bull# on a radar being able to SEE THROUGH SOLID LAND AT DISTANCE.

I said before IF there was no JAmming or decoys yeah they can be seen out to th emax range. Now those stealth cruise missiles have a 250 nm range well outside the 160 nm range of the s-300. andcan travel below engagement height the entire trip IN IRAN. Stay on topic and stop thinking i mean russia when Im discussing this subject. That includes the other posters who forgot what country were talking about as well.



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 02:06 PM
link   
a reply to: yuppa

It doesn't see "through it" in the sense of
www.ll.mit.edu...

it generates a detailed 3d environment - terrain, objects moving in the terrain via the various reflections - which is why the math is so bonkers

you then have another level of detail - air flow - which is used to detect objects disturbing the air. (hence "stealth" measurement being useless)

In this configuration there is NO SUCH THING AS JAMMING
conventional jamming systems do nothing more than provide additional source of EM from which illuminate any targets -kinda like turning the floodlights on a football pitch.

You can, of course, still "jam" individual sensors if you know where they are beforehand, but all that will do is make the other sensors more accurate.

AFAIK, the west has nothing similar, even the western research units are only just beginning to get close to Russian systems from the 70s.

The explanation is also really simple - average engineering grad in the eastern markets has skills not even western math PhDs possess - there's a reason the US had to pilfer the likes of Tesla and Oppenheimer from the east. But while they went on researching and getting better, the US
forgot how to manufacture Trident missile warhead component.
edit on 17-4-2015 by mSparks43 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 02:28 PM
link   
a reply to: mSparks43

I see you avoided the stealth/LO cruise missle able to be launched from outside the detection range and able to stay below its detection envelope. Most likely the system woudnt even see it coming if it was not expecting a attack. And normally you have to have 3 units to actually create a 3-d representation of a given area right?

What happens when you start at the farthest point taking it apart peice by peice.? Im not gonna gibve up on this subject and i have no job or anywhere to be so feel free to keep posting ill keep at it till you get tired.



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 02:34 PM
link   
a reply to: yuppa

because I wholly reject your assertion that stealth/LO cruise missle can tunnel under the ground.

->And normally you have to have 3 units to actually create a 3-d representation of a given area right?

Yes.
and a s300 system consists of several hundred, if not over a thousand. Some as small as a shoebox.



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 02:40 PM
link   
a reply to: mSparks43

Durh.. I dont know the limitations of my weapons system durrhhh. the engagement height of THE FRACKING SAM is 25 m and above. A missile BELOW that height even surrounded by passive sensors(that coincidentally are set at the same height) can easily slip in to hit them. GASP!! andthey dont even have to dig a tunnel.



posted on Apr, 17 2015 @ 02:45 PM
link   
a reply to: yuppa

1. Source.
2. If you are talking about 48N6E2 missile, then
a. that's because it is only for high altitude targets
b. It can still destroy targets below 25m
c.They would TOR instead
3. if you are talking about the radar system, then maybe that was true in the 70s, it definately isn't now, since they have been using their radar systems to attack targets on the ground in the Ukraine for some time now. (the artillery our "allies" are using kill civilians in Donetsk)

____
Just watched a F22 promo video
www.youtube.com...
They are "really proud" of how it "secretly tracks targets passively".
in other words, they finally got round to fitting a passive phased array.
Something the migs have been using for decades.
edit on 17-4-2015 by mSparks43 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2015 by mSparks43 because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
11
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join