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So... I'm a progressive... You can regress all you like.

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posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Thank you!

Progress for me was when I turned 18, moved out and began to live life on my own, making my own decisions about how I would earn and disposed of my earnings, including charity and other things like that.

Now the government wants to regress me to a state where I am forced to live in nanny state's basement on their allowance and they take my paycheck and decide how my earnings will be used as they see fit, and they might allow me a pittance for my own amusement ... assuming there is enough leftover for me to afford said amusements that is.

To me, that's regression not progress.




posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Actually I'd see that as progress myself because it seems we live in a "pay my way" society...

Which needs to go...



See I'm kinda right wing on this, not fully, but I think there is better ways of dealing with it.


Your mantra of give what you can, to those who deserve it, and reap the rest, is my kinda thing.


Love you too fella!



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: whyamIhere

Nuff said bro. I hate the labels. I guess you could label me an anti-labeler...



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

That's where you're going wrong.

If we paid everyone equally then, why would the likes of scientists, engineers and surgeons put themselves through years of hard work and learning just to be paid equally as good as a shelfstacker?



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:28 PM
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Nostalgia is a strange thing. Looking back with rose tinted glasses and forgetting how things really were years ago. Members of ats say it was better 10 years ago. I think my music is great and what the kids listen to is "just noise". People forget or just don't know how a lot of things are better now. People moan about political correctness, but it could be argued political correctness has improved the lives of millions of minorities who would have had to put up with open racism and institutionalised racism. Gays used to be locked up, women couldn't vote. Black people couldn't share water fountains. Things have improved for millions, people on the right look at the left like we are "killjoys". With the PC thing, but it's improved the lives of millions.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: DAZ21
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

That's where you're going wrong.

If we paid everyone equally then, why would the likes of scientists, engineers and surgeons put themselves through years of hard work and learning just to be paid equally as good as a shelfstacker?


No one forces anyone...

& what you're suggesting negates your original stance that it's capability...

Now it's just a choice because the money is good...



Is that progress for all?
Or for some?


I'm not even saying lower a surgeons wage...

Just raise the shelf stackers.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: DAZ21

Not only that, but if every shelfstacker was paid the same, then what happens when you have the guy who works his @ss off and the guy who barely makes his shelf quota working side-by-side?

They're both making exactly the same, but are they doing the same job? Shouldn't the guy who always comes in a few minutes early, does the job impeccably and quickly and makes sure it's actually all done before he leaves even if it means he goes a bit late be making more than the guy who comes in late on a regular basis, never does the job right and barely does enough to get his assigned tallies done?

What incentive is there for anyone to go above and beyond and take any pride in what they do if there is no incentive?



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

What incentive is there for anyone to be a surgeon if they can work much less hard, not have to worry about whether or not their patients will live and make the same bank being a shelf stacker?



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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Dont worry people started using progressive after they realised the whole commy, socialist muslim dog eating crap just made them look like idiots. Its the new cool word the right uses to insult people.

Its pretty funny if you ask me.


edit on 13-4-2015 by dukeofjive696969 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs



I'm not even saying lower a surgeons wage... Just raise the shelf stackers.

So I get a surgeon's pay for making coffee and cleaning the bathrooms at a mini-mart?
I'll take the low stress mini-mart job.
No need to work my way up either, it all pays the same.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:33 PM
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originally posted by: olbe66
a reply to: whyamIhere

Nuff said bro. I hate the labels. I guess you could label me an anti-labeler...


I am with you. I think if you want progress, you have to get rid of these labels. Labels are there to separate us and make us fight with each other. We should except that everyone have their own beliefs and Rights. I will respect your Rights as long that you respect mine. I have no problem with anyone's religion, sexual preference, pro life or pro gun stance, practice what you want, just do not force me to practice anything against my wishes.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I could say lack of motivation in stacking shelves could come from the abysmal pay for the gruelling physical work...
So that could be an incentive...


Stacking shelves is just an example we've run with...

But it seems you're actually suggesting that pay should then be performance based...

Because you can't be suggesting the good shelf stacker should put up with a terrible wage just because the guy next to him might be a lazy prick?

& that's progress imo...


So if a surgeon leaves a glove inside you he shouldn't just be sued, he should not be paid for that day's work...


Fair is fair right?



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

What incentive is there for anyone to be a surgeon if they can work much less hard, not have to worry about whether or not their patients will live and make the same bank being a shelf stacker?




*For Butcher aswell!!!*

I never suggested we pay shelf stackers 100k per year...

I'm suggesting that 6 pound an hour for a hard days work isn't fair.
edit on 13-4-2015 by CharlieSpeirs because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

No it doesn't.

Capability is capability.

If you raised shelfstacker wages it depends how much, if you're saying equal wages, well then what I've stated stands. The people of capability will be smart enough to know that it wouldn't pay to be what they are capable of, so might aswell become a shelfstacker too.

If you just mean raise the wages a little bit then we have to take the problem to business owners, but this will take you to Europe and free movement of people, which allows the exploitation of migration workers.

Then the only way to stop that, is to stop free movement of people. But you sound like the type of guy that welcomes the world with open arms, without thinking through the possible consequences first.
edit on 13-4-2015 by DAZ21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

What incentive is there for anyone to be a surgeon if they can work much less hard, not have to worry about whether or not their patients will live and make the same bank being a shelf stacker?



I never suggested we pay shelf stackers 100k per year...

I'm suggesting that 6 pound an hour for a hard days work isn't fair.

Why should a shelf stacker get paid less than a surgeon?
Sorry about that.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

But then we wouldn't live in an equal society.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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What's the Progressive answer to the world debt problem?

Every nation is deep in debt and there always seems to be a recession of some kind with major depressions happening frequently.

All the Progressive programs seem to fail soon enough and create more of the problems they were designed to solve.

And we continue to see a slow and steady build-up of police state programs and military wars.

Why all the failures if the systems are so great?




edit on Apr-13-2015 by xuenchen because: [__'-|-'__]



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DAZ21

Not only that, but if every shelfstacker was paid the same, then what happens when you have the guy who works his @ss off and the guy who barely makes his shelf quota working side-by-side?

They're both making exactly the same, but are they doing the same job? Shouldn't the guy who always comes in a few minutes early, does the job impeccably and quickly and makes sure it's actually all done before he leaves even if it means he goes a bit late be making more than the guy who comes in late on a regular basis, never does the job right and barely does enough to get his assigned tallies done?

What incentive is there for anyone to go above and beyond and take any pride in what they do if there is no incentive?



Exactly! There's a reason that society has adapted the way it has. No it's not perfect, but it's adapted so that everyone has a place in society.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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For Ketsuko & Butcher...



Of course it's fair...

We've already discussed that a surgeon has to do 7 years medical training etc and is in a pressurised environment...

So they've earned the wage...



A shelf stacking job to get on the ladder should still have a decent wage though.


Like I said shelf stacking is just an example...



Here is another...

I worked for the lowest NHS wage doing a job of looking after medical records...
Making sure they were filed and delivered correctly so people didn't die in surgery or have a allergic reaction as an inpatient...


Then I did a receptionist job which was a whole 3 pounds more an hour just for checking patients in...
Basically clicking buttons on a computer...


Is that fair?


I did both jobs...
& I don't think so.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: DAZ21

I already don't do nearly what I am capable of for my pay.

I chose family over stuff.



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