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So... I'm a progressive... You can regress all you like.

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posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:55 AM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Gryphon66



Is there a reason you continue to want to talk about your perceptions about me?

You are behaving like a troll.
If anything, you are the one that has been drawing a nasty picture of me with your posts, all unfounded and blaming me for doing it to you.
Go read your posts and look what you have said about me. Why are you doing that?


You're still talking about me, except now you're playing the victim card and accusing me of what you're doing.

Typical reactionary ilk.

You don't have an argument to make, and now you're merely being dishonest.

I'd like to propose a solution. Why don't we both stop "attacking" each other and ignore each other?

That suits me just fine.




posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: beezzer



You call me a regressive. I do not accept that. But if you want to start name calling, then that is your right.

You are lucky. The same poster blamed me for rolling in my own poo.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:58 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Gryphon66



Is there a reason you continue to want to talk about your perceptions about me?

You are behaving like a troll.
If anything, you are the one that has been drawing a nasty picture of me with your posts, all unfounded and blaming me for doing it to you.
Go read your posts and look what you have said about me. Why are you doing that?


You're still talking about me, except now you're playing the victim card and accusing me of what you're doing.

Typical reactionary ilk.

You don't have an argument to make, and now you're merely being dishonest.

I'd like to propose a solution. Why don't we both stop "attacking" each other and ignore each other?

That suits me just fine.

You could have done that quite some time ago.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

In rough order of your presentation.

Working to make the world a better place for everyone has nothing to do with what someone else wants ME to do.

I answered your question about a productive way we could both work together to "make the world a better place."

If you choose to ignore that, I am neither surprised nor diverted from what I believe to be true.

Put words in your mouth? I asked you questions. Answer them and stop prevaricating.

Are there laws to combat inequality? Sure. Are there still just as many laws, practices, and official efforts to maintain inequality? Sure.

You refer to anyone and everyone by your little pet names all the time, Beezzer. Sorry you don't appreciate it turned around on you! Stick to the facts and leave your attempts to self-define others to the side and I'm sure things will change for you.

"Liar" LOL ... on what point? Cooperative contributions are not and never have been voluntary. You always pay to play. Now you're just dealing in fantasy land. History abounds with edicts, laws, and demands for contributions. No culture, society or government has ever existed that didn't place demands on the citizenry of taxes, servitude, goods, etc.

You're living in a dream world.

I have demanded nothing FROM YOU. I've worked for 32 years, paid taxes, and have given a significant part of my income and time to charities. So blow the "work for it" crap out of your nose.

Come up with some new justification for your own greed and self-centeredness instead of implying that someone is coming to take something away from you.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer

Don't demand of me that I have to sacrifice in order to provide for you.


what if I told you that the coin purse on Uncle Sam's waist is always full?

Its not that you need to give more. Or anyone else. Its that what is given is spent on the equivalent of beer, pinwheels, and kung fu magazines.

I would bet that if we put a 3 year moratorium on finding new, innovative ways to kill people we could feed all the hungry in our hemisphere for a decade.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: beezzer

In rough order of your presentation.

Working to make the world a better place for everyone has nothing to do with what someone else wants ME to do.


Unless you endorse higher taxes, or dictate what a person eats, drinks, smokes.



I answered your question about a productive way we could both work together to "make the world a better place."

If you choose to ignore that, I am neither surprised nor diverted from what I believe to be true.


What makes you think your way to make the world a better place is better than mine?


Put words in your mouth? I asked you questions. Answer them and stop prevaricating.


I do answer, you just don't like the replies. And this is a side-step, again.



Are there laws to combat inequality? Sure. Are there still just as many laws, practices, and official efforts to maintain inequality? Sure.


I agree. Currently, there is no law that recognises the individual rights of the unborn.



You refer to anyone and everyone by your little pet names all the time, Beezzer. Sorry you don't appreciate it turned around on you! Stick to the facts and leave your attempts to self-define others to the side and I'm sure things will change for you.


Sorry. Cupcake.


"Liar" LOL ... on what point? Cooperative contributions are not and never have been voluntary. You always pay to play. Now you're just dealing in fantasy land. History abounds with edicts, laws, and demands for contributions. No culture, society or government has ever existed that didn't place demands on the citizenry of taxes, servitude, goods, etc.
Contributions are voluntary. You are using the term "contribution" when you mean "taxes".


You're living in a dream world.


And you want to make it a nightmare.



I have demanded nothing FROM YOU. I've worked for 32 years, paid taxes, and have given a significant part of my income and time to charities. So blow the "work for it" crap out of your nose.


Dunno how to respond to this. SO you don't like to work for what you get? I don't understand.


Come up with some new justification for your own greed and self-centeredness instead of implying that someone is coming to take something away from you.


Ahhh, here we are. Now I'm greedy because I don't want to pay higher taxes.

I want to "contribute" to charities that only I deem worthy.

I'm self-centered because I believe in individual responsibility and respect the individuals rights.

lolz



____________________________________________________________________________

Am I the opposite of "progressive" as you define it?



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: brice
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

People forget, conservatives used to be fiscally conservative. After Reagan, they have become fiscally liberal and socially racist. Fascism is the only thing they wish to conserve. The rest is cursory.



But Reagan had the dilemma of a Democrat majority House of Representatives all 8 years he was President.

It must have been "compromise".




posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Drones

Operating cost: $30,000 per flight HOUR

Cost per: $100,000 to $Millions

Planned spending next decade: $40 BILLION

The US Drone: A Fact Sheet



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

What irritates me to no end is the constant justification to raise taxes when no look is being done on how it is spent!

If government were treated as a business;
Their accountants and CEO's would be fired
And actual real honest spending could probably be whittled down by 3/4th!

But that wouldn't encourage big government, where government exists to justify government in order for government to grow.
edit on 15-4-2015 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:26 PM
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I wonder if there are any "progressives" that would endorse lower taxes, smaller government.

Quite easy and simple actually.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

What irritates me to no end is the constant justification to raise taxes when no look is being done on how it is spent!

If government were treated as a business;
Their accountants and CEO's would be fired
And actual real honest spending could probably be whittled down by 3/4th!

But that wouldn't encourage big government, where government exists to justify government in order for government to grow.


I get the feeling that if you break away all the partisan intentions, you and Gryphon are pretty much on the same page here. I don't think he wants to raise taxes on anyone. He just wants to utilize current resources better.

Which is what everyone else here seems to agree with.

To your point: If Uncle Sam had a Controller, his performance on the job would be criminal.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

In my humble way of thinking, everyone has the right to believe what they want and to do what they want.

When THEIR beliefs start infringing on my rights, then I will have an issue.

Whether it's "reinterpreting" the 2nd Amendment, redefining the 1st Amendment, calling taxes "contributions" or determining what the best way to raise my children.

Other than that?

Really?

I could give a tinkers damn what people do.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
I wonder if there are any "progressives" that would endorse lower taxes, smaller government.

Quite easy and simple actually.


I would say that Kondratiev Waves as a theory would essentially indicate that, depending on which economic cycle you are in, all people want to "progress" to a smaller government at some times. While at other times everyone wants to "progress" to a more intrusive/authoritarian government.

These desires are cyclic and dependant on indidivual experience and human nature. In short: you and I want less government as a response to the environment we have lived in. Our kids....will be from a different environment, and will look for something different from their government.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

To avoid screen scroll, in rough order of your .. stuff:

Then you vote your way and I'll vote mine. You work for your causes and I'll do the same. Notice how that works? We both apply our efforts, time and money to what we believe in. Equability. Isn't America GREAT?!?

I can only work my way. You concentrate on working yours. I'm sure if we're both good-hearted people, the world will be a better place for both our efforts!

A side-step? From what? Don't call the kettle black when you're a pot, bunny. It doesn't become your dignity.

No ... you phrased contribution as taxes, and as such, I answered you. The idea that governments operate without requiring revenue is ... well you know what it is. No government has ever functioned without taxation in some form or another. If you have an example, I will listen. Back to what I said and meant, contribution is not just taxes, it is also time, effort and money that we "give back" to our community, at least, those of us who don't view ourselves as living in the libertarian wonderland of "Independent Island."

A nightmare? Perhaps, to those who want to see others go lacking while they have plenty. Angel or demon depends on your perspective. Imagining your dog-eat-dog, every person only for themselves, Mad Max Under Thunderdome utopia is just as terrifying to me and many others.

Spare me the silly implications that I don't work. It's boring.

I believe in individual responsibility and individual rights as well. It's not either/or.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Beezzer, since you ask, you're quite confusing to me. You're a very reasonable person on so many points.

Then you fall of the cliff. I don't pretend to understand you.
edit on 12Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:44:54 -050015p122015466 by Gryphon66 because: Two spelling corrections



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

you seem like a social anarchist. Which, if true, defines my viewpoints quite nicely.

But if i step back and look at it from 30,000 feet....i see that no political belief is an island.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

No one has ever heard me support higher taxes on the middle class particularly.

I like many of you think that the Government (and that's Federal, State and local) could perform its functions on FAR less money.

Less money needed = lower taxes.

I don't believe in deficits; that was Reagan's idea.

The problem is ... because I am Progressive, that invokes a whole laundry list of things that aren't true.

Oh well, we're all human.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: beezzer

you seem like a social anarchist. Which, if true, defines my viewpoints quite nicely.


I am. I suppose. Sounds about right.



But if i step back and look at it from 30,000 feet....i see that no political belief is an island.


Politics justify government. Political parties also justify government. I guess that's why I've been an "independent" for the past decade. I just can't see myself following in lockstep to any set ideology, though there are some that would eagerly paint me in one category or another.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 01:11 PM
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I think we all get painted into corners.

For example I am a liberal Progressive Democrat.

But I believe in a balanced budget for the government.

I am appalled at the waste of government.

I don't like being told what to do ... by anyone ... probably less than some of you here.

But, humans are pigeonholers.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 01:18 PM
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originally posted by: Ironhawke
Liberal means freely given, giving of plenty. What's wrong with that?


Not a goddamned thing, except for the fact that your statement is a sugar coated lie. Liberal, at least modern liberal, means "Freely taken, taking of plenty." If liberals only "freely gave" of what they themselves controlled, I'd have no issue with them. That's just philanthropy, which is damn cool... "Forced philanthropy", however, is simply theft.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
I think we all get painted into corners.

For example I am a liberal Progressive Democrat.


So you just painted yourself into a corner.



But I believe in a balanced budget for the government.


The only issue with that is that any accountant with an IQ above a turnip can cook the books. I'm for actual spending accountability.


I am appalled at the waste of government.


Agreed.



I don't like being told what to do ... by anyone ... probably less than some of you here.


I don't like being told what to do by the government. Like ACA. But again, some don't mind, depending on what they're being told to do.


But, humans are pigeonholers.


True.




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