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So... I'm a progressive... You can regress all you like.

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posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: butcherguy

What does anger have to do with it? Even though the fourth word of your first post to me was "ilk." LOL

Why are you telling me what my ideas ARE? You're not correct. I don't want anybody to march to the "beat of MY drum."

You don't know me, you don't have any basis to make any judgments about me INCLUDING what I am in "your eyes."

You have nothing of substance to even talk about here. You present NOTHING but empty phrases and your own bitter projections. You provide no evidence, you bring up no real world examples of anything you're talking about, and you're saying NOTHING on your own, you're only critiquing what you think you know about me and what I believe.

Who ever said that being Progressive meant that you accepted ideas that are nothing more than empty accusations and sour projections?

Not this one. Progressives believe in moving on to a better day. You believe in wallowing in your own remnants.




posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Me and "my ilk" will keep working to make the world a better place for all of us ... including people like you.


Who gets to determine what would be a "better place"?

You?


I do as far as I am concerned, my life and what I want out of life. But unlike most regressives and reactionaries, I understand very well that I am a part of a whole community of other people. I outlined to Texan above the basics that would make the world a better place ... shelter, food, drink, productive employment, equality under the law.

Which of those would you personally disagree with?



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 10:54 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Me and "my ilk" will keep working to make the world a better place for all of us ... including people like you.


Who gets to determine what would be a "better place"?

You?


I do as far as I am concerned, my life and what I want out of life. But unlike most regressives and reactionaries, I understand very well that I am a part of a whole community of other people. I outlined to Texan above the basics that would make the world a better place ... shelter, food, drink, productive employment, equality under the law.

Which of those would you personally disagree with?


You stated that you and your "ilk" will keep working to make the world a better place including the above poster.

So if I work to make the world a better place that includes you, you'd be okay with my ideas and ideologies?

"shelter, food, drink, productive employment, equality under the law."

Where you live and how you live is none of my business.
What you eat, how you eat, when you eat, is none of my business.
What you drink, how you drink, when you drink, is none of my business.
Where you work, what you do, when you do it, is none of my business.

Equality under the law? I thought that was already in place.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: largo

Those of us who espouse personal responsibility aren't the ones asking for hand outs. Many of us have been down and out and brought ourselves out of it.

A fool wouldn't use what he contributes to and is afforded, but a diligent man will continue to try and correct it for others.

The very notion that the end justifies the means is ridiculous, and personal liberty should trump ALL in regards to social well being.

I don't know WHAT crack you're smoking regarding govt being shown as a good vehicle for distributing social goods.

Private individuals have shown through the goodness of their hearts to be much better than coersion from a govt that has proven to be corrupt in all its' incarnations.

We need less govt intrusion and more local control. That's the only way to curb corruption. Any time you allow more power to be further centralised, it has proven to only bolster corruption and end in fascism.

There is no avoiding the historical truth that all govt becomes corrupt. America's founders saw this, hence the mention of a need for a revolution every twenty years.

The blood of partriots and despots is necessary due to the nature of man and govt.

I guarantee that if the blood of despots started to be spilled, corruption would be quickly slowed if not completely curtailed.

Jaden

I love the projection of an emotional agenda on me. I don't have an emotional agenda. I have an intellectual agenda. You liberal socialists are the ones with an emotional agenda. What about the children??? lol.

The church has done more for the destitute and down and out than govt EVER will.
edit on 15-4-2015 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I disagree with all of them. There is no social guarantee of anything. There is no equality in the work place. That whole concept is ridiculous. There is no equality of pay, no equality of work. There is only what a job is worth and what a worker is willing to take. There are employers and employees.

A worker is worth what he is willing to accept and what the employer is willing to pay. The best part of our society is that nothing is stopping anyone from going out and starting their own company and determining their own fate.

The main thing that needs to change is the implementation of import tarriffs, the promotion of small business and the demotion of large conglomerate corporate entities.

If govt would work within its powers granted to it by the people as illustrated in the constitution, then we would be much better off.

Jaden



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

People forget, conservatives used to be fiscally conservative. After Reagan, they have become fiscally liberal and socially racist. Fascism is the only thing they wish to conserve. The rest is cursory.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Not if it is progressive towards communism.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: amfirst1

That's like saying conservatism leads to Fascism, things are not just black and white, there are over 40000 shades of grey.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66
Your tolerant, progressive self still seems angry.


You blame me for saying things about you that I don't know.

You believe in wallowing in your own remnants.



How do you know this about me?
edit on bu302015-04-15T11:29:06-05:0011America/ChicagoWed, 15 Apr 2015 11:29:06 -050011u15 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



What does anger have to do with it? Even though the fourth word of your first post to me was "ilk."

I honestly did not say that in anger.
The definition of the word is: family, class or kind.

My eldest daughter is a progressive, so is my niece.

If one disagrees a tiny bit with their ideas whether it be vegetarianism or what have you, they have ruined holiday dinners with the anger that pours forth from them. They will not stand for disagreement.


Now, apparently if a progressive says that 'ilk' is a bad word, just because someone that isn't a progressive used it.... Iguess 'ilk' is a bad word now.
Stop the hate, 'ilk' users!



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: beezzer

Is everything an either/or? It's either your way or my way? Why can't we work together on common ground?

"None of your business" ... does that also mean none of your concern, when someone doesn't have a place to live, or enough food to eat, or clean water to drink? Does that mean that the unemployment rate has no effect on you?

If you really think that equality under the law is in place, you're simply not paying attention.

I'm well aware that the regressive stance is, as long as you've got yours, that's all that matters.

I'm well aware that reactionaries are focused on their own life to the exclusion of the society and culture around them, or at least they are when it comes to their contribution to it. They're fine with reaping the benefits that we've all created together.

If you are safe and secure, well-fed, have a great job and aren't being treated unfairly under the laws, then you're one of the lucky ones. We "ilks" on the Progressive side want the same things that you have to be there for everyone.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: butcherguy

Ilkist.

You and your ilk are just a bunch of. . . huh?




(I said ilk? Well it was for a good reason! Now I'm an "Ilkist?" Great! Hater!)



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: butcherguy

Ilkist.

You and your ilk are just a bunch of. . . huh?




(I said ilk? Well it was for a good reason! Now I'm an "Ilkist?" Great! Hater!)

You sir, are an ilker.
Oh, and how dare you.
I promise to ruin your Easter dinner for that.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: butcherguy

Is there a reason you continue to want to talk about your perceptions about me?

Did you have any actual claims, statements or arguments to make about the topic?

I can't speak to your anecdotal experiences with your family.

I will say it's illogical to aggrandize a perception of your daughter or your niece to "all progressives."

Did I say that "ilk" is a bad word? I used it.

Perhaps you're more concerned with the appearance of things rather than their substance?



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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Sides are so entrenched that these threads won't speak to anyone other than those of a like mind.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: beezzer

Is everything an either/or? It's either your way or my way? Why can't we work together on common ground?



Zero sum thinking is the trap of modern politics. You can't be polarized into encampments without a little zero sum thinking to act as the barrier between camps.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: Masterjaden

The main thing that needs to change is the implementation of import tarriffs, the promotion of small business and the demotion of large conglomerate corporate entities.
Jaden


I absolutely agree with this statement.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



Is there a reason you continue to want to talk about your perceptions about me?

You are behaving like a troll.
If anything, you are the one that has been drawing a nasty picture of me with your posts, all unfounded and blaming me for doing it to you.
Go read your posts and look what you have said about me. Why are you doing that?



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: beezzer

Is everything an either/or? It's either your way or my way? Why can't we work together on common ground?



Zero sum thinking is the trap of modern politics. You can't be polarized into encampments without a little zero sum thinking to act as the barrier between camps.



Agreed. The false dichotomy is a powerful tool of social and political control. It's amusing to watch who uses the technique here.

I think that tendency is relate to attempting to derail discussion by spouting trivialities that might seem humorous.

I guess that means they're out of logical, reasonable things to say.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 11:53 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: beezzer

Is everything an either/or? It's either your way or my way? Why can't we work together on common ground?


You stated you and your "ilk" will work to make the world a better place, even for people who don't want you to. So I'm asking if I was to make the world a better place according to my ideologies, it would be okay, because, afterall, I'm simply making the world a better place.



"None of your business" ... does that also mean none of your concern, when someone doesn't have a place to live, or enough food to eat, or clean water to drink? Does that mean that the unemployment rate has no effect on you?


Are you going to put words in my mouth? Do you just want to write my posts? I said, "none of my business". What people do with their lives is none of my concern how they live it. Didn't think that was too difficult to figure out.


If you really think that equality under the law is in place, you're simply not paying attention.


Are there laws to combat inequality?



I'm well aware that the regressive stance is, as long as you've got yours, that's all that matters.


You call me a regressive. I do not accept that. But if you want to start name calling, then that is your right.



I'm well aware that reactionaries are focused on their own life to the exclusion of the society and culture around them, or at least they are when it comes to their contribution to it. They're fine with reaping the benefits that we've all created together.



Liar. Contributions are voluntary. You can't edict, or legislate, or demand contributions. You have not a clue to what I do or do not contribute. Therefore what you claim are "contributions" are more demands to projects that fuel your ideologies.




If you are safe and secure, well-fed, have a great job and aren't being treated unfairly under the laws, then you're one of the lucky ones. We "ilks" on the Progressive side want the same things that you have to be there for everyone.



Then work for it.

Don't demand of me that I have to sacrifice in order to provide for you.



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