Oregon gold mining stand off with BLM….Next bundy ranch

originally posted by: JohnnyAnonymous

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: JohnnyAnonymous

Miners today are environmentalist minded and want to see these lands restored back to their original beauty.

EXCEPT THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT THEY ARE FIGHTING AGAINST???

Shocking how easily people can be manipulated.

I want to address this, but there are still to many variables that need to come to fruition, otherwise this will just become a "he said she said".

I suggest we wait and see what happens as this is still very early in this (game?) event.I still stand by the train of thought that there is something going on (tested) here by the EPA and the BLM. I can't put my finger on it, so it would be silly for my making a whole lot of conjecture. ...

Nothing personal Johnny...but "Conjecture" is what you are repeatedly offering vs. the links to both the BLM and the Miners citing the nature of the dispute, which I have provided.

Your claim of these specific miners being environmentalists (based on nothing) is disputed by the Miners themselves, as it is BLM 3809 which they have cited as the regulation they feel they are not beholden to and 3809 specifically calls for no unnecessary environmental damage and for restoration of mining sites.

originally posted by: Indigo5[/post]

originally posted by: JohnnyAnonymous

Miners today are environmentalist minded and want to see these lands restored back to their original beauty.

Nothing personal Johnny...but "Conjecture" is what you are repeatedly offering vs. the links to both the BLM and the Miners citing the nature of the dispute, which I have provided.

Your claim of these specific miners being environmentalists (based on nothing) is disputed by the Miners themselves, as it is BLM 3809 which they have cited as the regulation they feel they are not beholden to and 3809 specifically calls for no unnecessary environmental damage and for restoration of mining sites.

I wont get baited into something that I've suggested we wait and see what unfolds in this current scenario (but thanks for playing, here are some lovely parting gifts). There are numerous links (by both sides of the argument) for anyone that digs deep enough. But I will cite a program that Miners (and others) willingly participated in to prove that today's Miners (for the most part) want to keep our lands beautiful and as pristine as we can.

This is a program implemented back in 2000 by the EPA to help remove Mercury out of our waterways.

Region 9: Innovative Programs

Todays miners are not the Big Bad Wolf as you'd like everyone to believe. If these Miners in Oregon after having their day in Court are found guilty, then I will be the first to shake your hand and apologize for thinking that there was something else (agenda-wise) being exercised here.

originally posted by: JohnnyAnonymous


Todays miners are not the Big Bad Wolf as you'd like everyone to believe.

Not at all? Apparently you have not been reading my posts? I am huge Gold Rush fan and personally know a couple of miners in the Yukon.

These specific miners in the OP are contesting their obligations with the BLM to restore the federal land they use after mining and abide by environmental restrictions.

Specifically BLM 3809 ...this is not in question, it is what these miners themselves cited.

Your link was entirely unrelated to this specific dispute.

The local Medford paper has a current update: www.mailtribune.com...

My sister lives about 40 miles from Galice and she had no idea this was going on. The TV news hasnt covered it. She will watch tonight and if its not on, she will call and write the station.

galicemining.x10.mx...

This is the mining company's complaints (link to it found on the Oathkeepers.org site). It is not complete, and it states so, because

While we cannot yet divulge any fine details (and ultimately must keep legal tactics completely private), at this time, we can confirm the following:

The list is comprehensive enough, but no fine details.

Is there a livestream of this?

originally posted by: For Truth
galicemining.x10.mx...

This is the mining company's complaints (link to it found on the Oathkeepers.org site). It is not complete, and it states so, because

While we cannot yet divulge any fine details (and ultimately must keep legal tactics completely private), at this time, we can confirm the following:

The list is comprehensive enough, but no fine details.

This is a laundry list of complaints about process and authority, but very blatantly avoids actually explaining the nature, cause or reasoning of BLMs cease and desist order.

These people are asking for help defending themselves from legal action of a Federal Agency...disputing legal process...disputing authority...while refusing to explain why that legal action is taking place???

If my neighbor says the police are coming to arrest him and it is unjust and illegal in his opinion and asks my help ...I am going to ask why they are coming? ...don't worry about that, just know that I don't think they have the proper paperwork???...WTF???

Is this not suspicious? The miners very blatantly not explaining what BLMs specific beef with them is? Why would they refuse to explain?

The only hint is that two mines received a Cease and Desist order based on the BLM 3809 regulation. That regulation has to do with telling miners on federal land that they can't carelessly wreck the land and must make some effort to restore the land to a natural state when they are done.

lol @ these guys jumping in a car and driving over a day, asking for money and calling people to fight for something there is no clear understating on why the cease and desist was issued. "Patience "

They aren't protecting the miners land. The miners don't own any land. The public does. It is the public under the management of the BLM that is asking the miners to adhere to laws. The miners can smash the land apart to get to the minerals, but thankfully there are laws in different states that protect yes the little fish, the trees and streams. They may have not adhered to the laws designed to protect the environment and claim a law from over a hundred years ago (I could marry a goat back then) and IF that is the case, then Bubba and Boofhead are all wasting a very long trip.
But some people scour the net to jump on the next thing......

Anyone been to Virginia City Nevada lately?
If you go down the road to Gold Hill the entire mountain has been removed by the mine. The pioneering gold miners of old would turn in their graves if they saw what has happened there. Not all miners are like that, and last year I picked up gold hunting as a hobby and met some great people, but there are people who ignore the laws. And the people with claims are pretty vicious in protecting them, the old west still lives on when it comes to claim protection. Its wild!

Wait and see a few days. don't go running calling for a militia to protect something that may not be worth protecting, but instead you end up protecting criminals.

UPDATE:

UPDATE 4:00 P.M. – The Josephine County Sheriff’s Department has released a statement regarding this incident:

“Sheriff Daniel in an attempt to mediate this conflict has contacted and met with the Coordinator of the Oath Keepers and the Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Bureau of Land Management out of Eugene. This was done to ensure the claim owner’s right to due process and avoid confrontation in the region.

The Josephine County Sheriff’s Office was informed by the BLM that no enforcement action would be taken by their organization and the claim owner is guaranteed his right to due process. Further the BLM has met with the claim owner’s attorney to ensure the appeal process.

According to the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), they recently found out about the mining operation around Galice Creek. Officials with the BLM said they served two notices to the miners that they were out of compliance.

agenda21radio.com...

SO...THESE MINERS HAD NO BLM PERMITS ??? FEDERAL LAND. Were hiding their operations from the BLM...No inspection, no following the rules, no worry about the environment...get in and out...and they got busted?

Permits are not difficult to get in that region. How is it fair to the miners that follow the rules and respect the environment and have to put dirt back, not drain toxic chemicals in waterways, plant trees etc...to Have illegal miners show up, rip up federal lands, not worry about environmental impact and pocket the gold and run?

Do you know there is actually a superfund clean-up site in the area due to illegal mining?

Oathkeepers...Protecting the rights of illegal miners to unfairly compete with law abiding, environmentally responsible miners and destroy TAX PAYER OWNED PUBLIC lands without worry of consequences or environmental impact.

Sounds noble to me.

AGAIN here is an example of a recent illegal mine on Galice Creek..


This is Galice Creek in the mining district discussed.



This is what one miner felt the 1876 law permitted him to do to that creek without a BLM permit or posting any bond for remediation.







mininginsworegon.blogspot.com...

Let me be clear...

These miners did not get the inexpensive and easy to obtain BLM permits to mine this federal land.

Like every other legal, law abiding, miner obtains.

The only reason one would not get those permits is to avoid the BLM 3809 requirements and make themselves vulnerable to inspection with regards to illegally polluting waterways or failing to clean up their mining operations when they are done, fill in pits and make some effort to restore the land when finished.

The BLM 3809 regulation is what the miners said the cease and desist order was about.

How is this fair to the miners who follow the rules on Federal Land? How is this fair to the US Taxpayers that own this land? How is this fair to other businesses that rely on wilderness tourism and fishing? When the creeks and rivers get illegally polluted and muddied suppressing the salmon population?

a reply to: Indigo5

lol, I actually did laugh at this outcome. I'll unsubscribe from this "big bad wolf story" let me know if something real actually happens.

Oathkeepers....Protecting the rights of illegal miners to ravage Tax-Payer lands, keep the gold and have tax-payers flip the bill to clean up the mess.

One of the very few, perhaps only, prosecuted cases in Galice Creek in recent years..

Remember when Clifford Tracy illegally mined Forest Service lands in 2009, clearcutting a riparian reserve for Sucker Creek, excavating soils down to bedrock, diverting cold-water tributaries and releasing dirty water into Coho salmon habitat?

The end result of his mining frenzy: Taxpayers were hit with a $29,000 clean-up tab and Mr. Tracy walked away with the gold

kswild.org...

Oathkeepers...Supporting the right of miners to shoot off-roaders recreating on Public Land!

Southern Oregon Mining Association Supports Ron Spears at Trial
www.jeffersonminingdistrict.com...

The incident happened as the pair engaged in their second verbal altercation after Graybill and his friends drove into — and then out of — Spears' mining camp during an off-roading expedition on April 5, 2009. Spears then racked another round in his shotgun and continued to threaten others in Graybill's group.

...

"We weren't trespassing on anybody's property. That's my property. That's your property. That's everybody's property," Graybill said. "I think it was a fair verdict. I believe he was guilty of the charges."

"(Hood) saw the mist cloud (after the blast tore through Graybill's arm)," Graybill said. "He saw (Spears) racked another round. He literally hunted us down."

www.mailtribune.com...

The Oath Keepers are a pretty large organization. I have a feeling we are going to start seeing this in MSM a good bit soon.

These guys likely have a lot of media contacts and will be pushing this story heavily.

a reply to: Indigo5

So in retrospect, the comparison to bundy was kinda correct.

Freeloading off the tax payer dime, time to point some guns at federal agents!!

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Pushing what story exactly ?

a reply to: zazzafrazz

That the tyrannical BLM is at it again taking good men's land that have done nothing wrong!!!

Then throw something about obama in there and call it a day.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Pushing what story exactly ?

No story at all...they just went out there for fun with guns.....on vacation...


Maybe the story in the media....as in what the thread is on?

So far we still have no response from BLM to go on. My guess is they are not going to make the same mistake as Bundy Ranch and make it a media circus as they don't want bad press.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

The miners have no permits. Are you wanting they provide a media release to say that these guys support the breaking of the law?
I see the current miners actions as tantamount to a claim jump, I would love to have taken a claim there and I would have abided by the law. They stopped law abiding gold miners from using the claim properly.

I am seeing nothing but histrionics from the beefhead guys with guns on a crowd sourced PAID vacation ( I actually do think think they get a kick out of this crap) who have travelled for nothing, and that is kinda embarrassing right so they will try their hardest to make a damn story but will only dig them selves deeper and make themselves look more stupid to a reasonable thinking person.

Can you clarify you think they should media release a story they had no specifics on other than think someone had their land stolen, when in fact they never owned the land NOR did they have permits, instead they left the environmental clean up bill to the public and have subsequently broken the law.

What EXACTLY should their media release be about if not the facts presented so far?
Tell me in a few lines what you think the media release should be, I'm fascinated to read what you come up with.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

I have no need to answer to you. Nor do I need to come up with anything. This IS a story and it IS in the news and BLM IS involved.

I am fascinated to see what a non-argument a self described writer has on this.

All of the facts are NOT out there, it is only one side as of this point as BLM has not issued any statements. The mining association for the area HAS issued statements. There are multiple miners in the area siding with the mine(s) in question based on the statement from the associations site itself.

There are numerous stories, outside of conspiracy theorist sites, that have popped up about this. Regardless of whether or not YOU personally think it is a story based on your opinion, it IS a story, and one that plenty of people are interested in.

If this is a non-story to you then why do you continue to bump the thread? Seems I recall you posting somewhere in this thread already that it was a non-story and you were unsubscribing until it was one....

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: Indigo5

lol, I actually did laugh at this outcome. I'll unsubscribe from this "big bad wolf story" let me know if something real actually happens.

So I guess this is now a story to you again?

a reply to: Vasa Croe


Really, in starting a thread, I believe you certainly do have to answer questions asked of you.

I am fascinated to see what a non-argument a self described writer has on this.

I on the other hand am fascinated to know what that actually means......

Regardless of whether or not YOU personally think it is a story based on your opinion, it IS a story, and one that plenty of people are interested in.

Not my opinion, did you not read what was posted and linked in your own thread? It is not my opinion they allowed their permit to lapse. It is not an opinion. Do I need to link the dictionary to assist you with understanding the term "opinion" . Let me know, happy to help.

If this is a non-story to you then why do you continue to bump the thread?

Is that all you got? Guess now I've decided to stay as is my prerogative, lucky you.

ETA On rereading my post, I sound rougher on you than I feel, but I do think this is going to be made a issue due to guys with guns, rather than a legal mining issue with due processes taking place through the courts.