Question for Christians...

Christ came to this world to help free people from the mental slavery of this world ( from contemporary bankers to ancient monarchs, this oppression has been going on since the dawn of civilization).

Simply put, we are lost gods who are in a fallen state of death and decay. This had been going on for a long time until God (God is the light, the 4th dimension) incarnated himself as Jesus to teach people that they were missing the point of life and dying because of it. Sin means to miss the point of life, and we are missing the point of life, which is to reacquaint ourself with our true "Father" in some awesome heavenly realm. Jesus demonstrated that what he was saying was true by doing all sorts of miracles, so that the word would persist to this day. This made it so that anyone who is interested in seeking for the answers to life can read the gospel and figure out what they need to do to acquire eternal life. He even said if we followed his word we could do the same things he was doing, and even greater works.

Unfortunately, many Christians do not fully act upon the beliefs they hold (myself included), which is similar to receiving an inheritance of endless money but never spending it.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
How do you expect someone to convert to Christianity when it means accepting that all their deceased family members have gone to hell?

I'm not sure that it does mean accepting that. But I'd also be a little surprised and rather saddened if someone let an (understandable) emotional hangup like that get in the way of their quest for truth.

a reply to: EternalSolace

If your deceased family members jumped off a cliff and
in to hell?

Would you?

There is only one unforgivable sin.

Mathew 12:32 "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." - KJV

I've heard many people ask, how can you know that believing Jesus is the Son of God is the truth? The answer is in Romans 8:16 "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

The Holy Spirit bears witness to us that Jesus is the Son of God. That witness will either confirm God's love for us or strike fear in those not willing to change their lives. We all will have a chance to accept or deny the Holy Spirit's witness about Jesus.

So to answer the original question from EternalSolace, "How do you expect someone to convert to Christianity when it means accepting that all their deceased family members have gone to hell?"

Currently, nobody is in Hell. There must first come a Judgement Day where we will have to account for our decisions.

Hell was created for the devil and his fallen angels. Lucifer was a created angel who rebelled against God. He's got no special powers other than to lie and to lead people astray from Christ. Satan is not going to be ruler of Hell or partying there. Satan will cast into Hell and will suffer just like any other.

Everyone will have the chance to accept or deny Christ.

Those who deny Jesus is the Son of God will not have their names written in the book of life. Revelations 20:15 says whosoever was not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.

I think the proper entity to hate would be the devil for deceiving and destroying so many lives.

a reply to: randyvs

Is the cliff a sentient, omniscient, being capable saving all human kind?

Why would all of the family members have gone to hell?, because they were not 100% "Christian".....?

This is one of my biggest problems with Christianity......... for instance, a young person is born on some random far away island and grows to be a good honorable person who committed no willful wrong towards anybody, yet we was never once exposed to the bible. Is his soul still damned to this hell? (I doubt it!)

I asked this question to a self righteous hypocritical hardcore Christian (not making any generalities, I'm explaining this one person) he actually got angry with me and belted, "well, that's saying that you've done enough to get into heaven by your deeds! Not his deeds"! Angrily he said this, while I was being calm and polite.

I had an epiphany at that moment....."wow, this is religion.....just unreasonable anger and a nasty disdain for others who don't perceive or subscribe to your exact beliefs." This felt like a mini metaphor representing all the hate and destruction organized region has caused.

Do all Christians still believe in a literel hell?

The God I believe in would not condenm anybody to eternal physical and mental torment. Some people do need a swift kick in the rear from Karma, and people need to learn hard lessons through hard adversity.

The worst of the worst do deserve some seriously gnarly consequences.

Burning, literally burning for an infinite amount of time!? That's some sadistic, sick, and extremely evil stuff right there.

No, The Most High does not get down like that.......

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: randyvs

Is the cliff a sentient, omniscient, being capable saving all human kind?

No, it's a cliff, you know with an edge usually a rock face leading
far down. Usually seen in adventure movies. A rock edifice.

a reply to: atslagsifnotmember

Pretty much. Basing your decision based on where deceased family members went just shows the ineptitude of a mortal mind. The afterlife is supposed to be for eternity. Do you even want to be around your family for eternity under the best of conditions? Let alone being tortured in hell? It's not like they're throwing a party over there. I think the idea is "if you're sure your family went to hell (not sure why that would be), why wouldn't you want to save yourself. The idea that "heaven without my dog, grandma, etc is no heaven at all," is ludicrous as well. Whatever happens to you after you die may very well be beyond the limits of human comprehension. To say "I'd act this way or that" really only tells other people how narrow minded you are.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
How do you expect someone to convert to Christianity when it means accepting that all their deceased family members have gone to hell?

Because God doesn't give us knowledge of whether anyone's relatives went to Heaven or Hell. That's between that soul and God. It isn't something we should be concerned with, because it's out of our control.

Give science some time...it'll answer it just like it does everything else, in time.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: here4this

There is also scripture that says Christ's return will not take place until all the world has heard the news of Christ.

That would mean all of men would have heard that Christ is the savior. That still leaves the original question.


How do you expect someone to convert and believe in a religion which would damn their relatives to hell.

Even in a religious family there's no guarantee all will reach Heaven. There's a saying whomever visits you in your dreams that have passed are in Heaven and if they don't, then they are not. I have been visited many times by my Nana and my Aunt Prudence, but never by my Pop. My Pop was a very violent man who beat my Nana terribly when he was alive. If this is true, then it would mean he is in Hell and they are in Heaven. It breaks my heart because as a child I loved him deeply. I didn't know the family history until I was in my adult years. That's only if that is true though. Truthfully though, I honestly don't know what happens after we pass, but I know the dream visits have often given me comfort in the past when I needed them.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: undo
answer as i see it:

hell is the grave, the grave and its contents are destroyed. in effect, if you don't want to have an eternal life, you won't. no one but you, makes that choice. it's not a penalty imposed on you, it's your decision you impose on yourself.

I will never understand why people who reject God are so upset when they get told that God won't save them.

I think it may be the self-righteous arrogance that is required to tell someone/anyone something like 'god won't save them'.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Most Christians I know don't really think that way, but then, I and the others I know don't follow that interpretation of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

That's not to say this is the viewpoint of most who would identify themselves as Christians, but personally, I believe the "this way is the only way" mindset and writings are/were largely political, and little more than interference with the greater, more important message.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Imagine a world without hypotheticals

...kidding...

...Honestly, the best reply that I can give you, is to speak to God for yourself. Our minds and all of the scattered paths that they can travel on are of no offense. God, who created the mind initially, will be more than happy to hear from you.

If you speak honestly, in whatever process that 'honestly' means to you, there will be an answer. That answer will be built upon a timeline that is custom made for YOU. Whatever potential answers you get will probably build on one another.

In my own insufficient example, it's kind of like this:
if the ultimate answer for you in 'trigonometry,' then God will not provide that answer if you still don't yet understand multiplication. God's answers will typically attempt to guide you through math classes, make sure you are proficient in your understanding, then surprise you with an equation that you will eagerly solve.

Your honesty to God doesn't need to be linear, rational, well thought-out, or even completely certain. It just has to be the best you can muster at the time.

Hell, the afterlife, the pre-existance, the incarnation... that's asking to understand trigonometry first. THEN, if you are satisfied, you will then begin to learn your 10's tables and maybe long division...

a reply to: EternalSolace

Well, I don't really want anyone to convert to Christianity, my belief does not need to be spread far and wide, but within my own religion.. There's like a few people in the entire history of the world that go to hell. Everyone else goes to a place much better than this earth - it's still a process, it's not to say terrible people won't learn and truly be held accountable for their mistakes, it just means forever is a long time and we believe everyone ends up being happy.

a reply to: EternalSolace

The version of hell that is presented in modern day christian churches is something I refuse to believe.

ATS will probably hate this cause I have no sources and can't remember full details but.....I listened to a sermon once and the dude said that if you put the things the bible says about hell into context of the time they were written hell is nothing more than an unhappy separation from the creator.

People that I am forced to call brothers and sisters from some reason think fire, brimstone, and smashing you in the head with the bible will "save" you. It does nothing more than make the rest of us look foolish and unloving.

If you want to look more into look at the beatitude s and the different "levels" of heaven.

a reply to: dogstar23

Thank you for that!!!!

a reply to: Okeyd57

I am a christian. I would never serve a God who could be capable of touring people for eternity. This flies straight in the face off everything Jesus said and stood for.

I'm sure someone can come along and throw something in my face to say I am wrong, but from my personal experience of God and the things I have been forgiven of he can not and will not do this.

Christians love to cherry pick scripture. "No one comes to the father except through me" for instance. Why is it assumed that this means believe in Jesus or go to hell. It says nothing of the sort. If you are a true follower of Christ you should KNOW that you are no better than the homeless addict in the gutter, the Muslim who suicide bombs people, or anybody else who's sin is out in the open. Some of us are just better at hiding our failures.

a reply to: EternalSolace

this is certainly an issue we all have to grapple with. From a macro metaphysical point of view, it is a humbling experience becoming a Christian. Even though the scholarship on the thousands of ancient manuscripts of the Bible is very good and there is really good science, history and archeology behind it, so it makes a lot of sense when you study it, on some level it is incomprehensible why God would choose to save some and lose others. Free will laws seem to be part of the reason.

Then there are those who think we can still pray for dead relatives and friends in the afterlife: purgatory.



"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
Isaiah 55: 8-9

“When I consider the heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him.”
Psalms (King David)

a reply to: Raxusillian

there are some verses that suggest that hell is not eternal torment, but the punishment of it is eternal:

“But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”
Psalm 37:20

“That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.”
Job 21:30

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
1 Corinthians 15:51