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Question for Christians...

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posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 04:46 PM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: hotel1

And how many Christians do you think will say they were brainwashed?.....


My response was intended to highlight the circular and self defeating nature of brainwashing claims. Your response serves to reinforce the point.

Kind regards




posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:07 PM
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originally posted by: olbe66
a reply to: EternalSolace

Where you you folks make this stuff up from? I don't see it anywhere in the bible. These are layer fairy tales.


There are three instances in the bible that say that. Isaiah 25:8, Revelation 7:17, and Revelation 21:4. There is even a verse that states all memories of former things will be erased as well, Isaiah 65:17. So, please don't accuse folks of making anything up.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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I think the general response would be that your memory is wiped. But that calls into question: what was the point of this life to begin with if God just decides to wipe your memory anyways? Isn't that taking away someone's free will to the extreme? That's a big no no for God isn't it?

I did a thread on this concept a while back too. It doesn't make much sense in my opinion. How can heaven be perfect if your loved ones aren't there to enjoy it with you?
edit on 4/13/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: ATF1886

Agape love is not something humanity, in its current state, can truly understand or demonstrate. It's one thing to say God is love. It's another thing entirely to comprehend that.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:25 PM
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Ill agree on that no matter how much we try to understand I don't think we would ever comprehend that not in this generation or the next few.. reply to: EternalSolace



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I didn't grow up catholic and really have a limited understanding of its doctrine. I grew up in an Assembly of God church or Pentecostal. They're both essentially the same. I'm basing the question from scripture itself. The bible is quite clear that there are only two possible outcomes after death. Heaven or Hell. Mathew 25:34-46. It also says that there is one way to heaven Romans 10:9.

The bible also says that it is by faith and not works that one is saved. Ephesians 2:8-9.

Considering that, if a person has a family member who has denied Christ, It leads me back to the original premise...




posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: ATF1886

Agape love is not something humanity, in its current state, can truly understand or demonstrate. It's one thing to say God is love. It's another thing entirely to comprehend that.


THat's just it - no matter how we try to comprehend God, we can't.

Even Love is far more complicated than the simple emotion we often argue about here. There are many ways to show love, and not all of them are warm and fuzzy. But it's the simple warm and fuzzy thing we all think about with love.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I didn't grow up catholic and really have a limited understanding of its doctrine. I grew up in an Assembly of God church or Pentecostal. They're both essentially the same. I'm basing the question from scripture itself. The bible is quite clear that there are only two possible outcomes after death. Heaven or Hell. Mathew 25:34-46. It also says that there is one way to heaven Romans 10:9.

The bible also says that it is by faith and not works that one is saved. Ephesians 2:8-9.

Considering that, if a person has a family member who has denied Christ, It leads me back to the original premise...



Well if you think about it he made it easy not for us to try and break our heads when we meet the creator we can have a serious discussion



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: ATF1886

Unfortunately, by the time we get to meet the Creator, the time will have passed for serious discussion.

I don't pose the questions I do out of malice, or spite. I pose these questions in an attempt to understand. I asked these questions once back in my church fairing days. Know what happens to a thirteen year old when you ask a pastor something like that? Or what happens when you question their tenants and doctrine with what appears to be a major contradiction? You get shunned. Or you get the response, that's something we can't understand. But in the next breath, they say the bible is a roadmap for understanding and all we have to do is read.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: EternalSolace


Really far stretch. Sounds more like a nursemaid than anything else. More fairy tales.

Isaiah 25:8



And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples, Even the veil which is stretched over all nations. 8He will swallow up death for all time, And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces, And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken. 9And it will be said in that day, "Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us. This is the LORD for whom we have waited; Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation."…


Revelation 7:17




17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; ‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’[a] ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’


Revelation 21:4




And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." 5And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."…



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:40 PM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: here4this

I'm not assuming that you're Christian or now, but I am asking you to place yourself in the shoes of an individual who's family has never had any exposure to Christianity or whom have always dismissed it.

How do you expect an individual who've always dismissed Christianity, to convert knowing that it would mean that your family members have gone to hell?


Just have that person become a Morman.
I hear that Mormans can choose friends and family who aren't Mormans to also go to heaven.
Sounds super boring though.
All the things I really like in life probably aren't allowed in heaven.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: olbe66

Didn't fully read your post or understand your gist. Edited to retract post.
edit on 4/13/2015 by EternalSolace because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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OK, I can use your translations, which are still questionable considering the time frame and multiple languages. But it still sounds like a nursemaid wiping off tears, not magically erasing your brain and memories of your loved ones in hell when you go to heaven. Please stop your attempts at ignoring the basic question - where do you get these fairy tails from? I guess you can read words and make up anything you like as to what the "mean" to you, but that pretty much opens up the whole bible, right?



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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I agree 100% percent with you i dont believe in man made religion rules i feel they have all been skewed to their benefit i feel we will all get the answers we are looking forward to!!!a reply to: EternalSolace



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: Answer

Well it would vary with each person depending on their beliefs and what common ground we already had. This quote was taken out of context though and the original comment was using this scenario to get a point across...i really don't know why I justified your comment with a response



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 07:57 PM
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a reply to: olbe66

On what standard are you calling something cruel? Your own subjective opinion?

Christ can force someone to change. They have to want it to and be searching for him. A Christians job is to encourage people to search and think about him .


Christians build a relationship with Christ, and relationships are not a one way ordeal. Both people have to choose to build that relationship.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 08:01 PM
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a reply to: Prezbo369

Just copying you dearest



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: EternalSolace

I spoke with my mother today who is more closely familiar with current doctrine and interpretation. As per her understanding, the current position of the Church is that there is no clear conclusion or determination that a place thus defined as "Hell" actually and formally exists according to recent insights on biblical scripture.

It's possibly a metaphor for the sense of detachment from Grace and the ensuing chaos that assails and ravages the mind as one struggles to comprehend the loss of Divinity in their lives. I am experienced such disconnect on a fair number of occasions as warnings when I inadvertently stray from the path, and they are terrible and frightful indeed...but they are not literal places of manifestation, and thankfully, by His Grace I am able to return from those temporary mental terrors and share with you what I have learned.

So, Hell is not so much a literal place as it is a figurative and spiritual state of disconnect. If it is possible to endure such hell-states while still alive, I see no reason that one cannot transcend such oblivion when the times comes and they are provided with a warning sign of such magnitude.

Now granted, my experiences might be a little unusual when it comes to the average human relationship with God, but I cannot fathom that His Holiness would allow a soul to transgress to the point of eternal damnation without some very real and powerful warnings and spiritual/psychic intervention.

It is more likely that a soul who has not received the Word or accepted Christ's Light into their hearts and minds would find themselves in a state of Purgatory, perhaps....a place where the soul undergoes it's patient progress, learning and waiting until the Final Judgment is levied upon all souls.

But once again, according to what she relayed to me this morning - there is no "proof" of a literal Hell within the official standpoint of the Heads of the Catholic Community at this time.

If one does not know of Christ, and still lives a good and honest life, I fail to see how any sort of persecution would follow as a result of that lifestyle. For Christians, yes - there is much to be said of accepting His Word and Name into one's life and heart - but the trick about the Bible is that God's Plan is still unfolding, and if we continue to adhere solely to that singular work that was written for the peoples of an age over 2,000 years ago while neglecting further insights and manifestations of His Love throughout other works, we limit ourselves to the Infinite Variety of Grace He shares with us in abundance everyday.

The Bible is an important historical account, true - there is no denying such - but there are masterful works that have been written through Divine Inspiration across countless mediums since the time of Christ. We should not overlook anything that is good and beautiful and speaks clearly and resolutely to the Good within us all, regardless of what form it takes - with or without direct mention of His Grace.

Please do not continue to persecute yourselves of the memories of your loved ones by adhering to a very difficult ancient doctrine that leaves no room for growth and further manifestation of Christ's impact upon the whole of humanity.

There is good and peace in His Graces - however and wherever He chooses to set His Hand at work.

Such a Master would surely never forsake His Creation without due process.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko



THat's just it - no matter how we try to comprehend God, we can't.


Very wise, and, at this level of existence, anyway, very likely true...

So then the next thought is why align oneself with a religion claiming to know... when it can't?



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

Because you have had experiences you can't explain that argue and align very closely with what those religions teach.

There are people here who have, you know, and some of us just have faith. You come to a point where you have to pick your path and decide what calls to you and feels right inside. By reason of both personal experience in my life and faith, belief in Christ and faith in Him is what calls to me.



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