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Why Would The U.S. Do This?.....

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posted on Jun, 4 2003 @ 11:31 PM
I always read about how the United States let the 9/11 terrorist attacks so that they could make a "police state" and slowly take away everyones freedoms, but why would the United States want to throw away everything it's based on and take away peoples freedoms?

posted on Jun, 4 2003 @ 11:48 PM
The only reason why anyone wants to take freedom from anyone else is CONTROL.

Preservation of one's life is one of the most basic instincs we all share. The more Control one has over the world around them the easier this preservation is and also more comfortability too. An important thing to remember is that there are those who are indeed above the law and thus not subject to the forces which are at work controlling the rest of us. These are the only people who benifit from the Control of Freedom.

posted on Jun, 4 2003 @ 11:59 PM
why would "they" want to start a war in Vietnam
why would they want to come to the rescue of Kuwait and stop short of victory
why would they want to free Iraq in order to enslave it

why does a dog lick it's balls

the U.S. is not doing these atrocious acts, we are the U.S.
people with money and a desire for more are searching for Power at all costs, they will never attain it. however for some reason they must continue to try, perhaps the reason is so that individuals such as we will resist

tut tut

posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 12:10 AM
keep in mind that this is pure speculation and theories that people have spun off and inflated on real life incidences. i have several relatives that held/hold government positions, both high and low, and throughout the countless times i've tried to drag information out of them, and have been denied, i am constantly met with the phrase" although the government has it's secrets, and those things need to be kept hidden, the establishment is not as cynical as one is led to believe."

posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 12:23 AM
I agree the individuals are not cynical or evil, i am sure the vast majority are involved with government from a desire to perform public service. However life is a conspiracy, as we are, the broader question is who is the ultimate puller of strings, the ultimate of pupperter's, the Kabal,, ? who, who said the wise owl
for CONTROL is the answer

posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 12:35 AM
Look I wonder this myself, here's my HONEST answer.

America was created by Freemasons.

Not just American Freemasons but British Freemasons, why do you think we with 6 ships and a few thousand men beat the world's super power...BRAVERY?


It's because George Washington and his 33 generals under him were ALL freemasons, and the same went for Britain, their comander over here was a Mason Cornwallis was a Freemason, almost all officers of the British armed forces were Freemasons at the time.

And while they both fought for their countries, this didn't mean they didn't act as brothers in the taverns and such.

Which is why George Washington let Benedict Arnold go.

Now what's all this mean?

Well US being founded on Masonic principles, surely the change in freedoms is due to Unmasonic peoples lol.

You'll notice while not only our best times, all masonic presidents bettered the country, and bettered the freedoms.

With exceptions to FDR and Truman who were in times of great dispare.

However this seems pretty week, so I have a more strong theory that is much more realistic.

It is the natural course of things.

Democracy is not "born" it is learned and when you live in something you seldom learn it.

If you woke up and it was custom to do 5 jumping jacks every time, you'd seldom ask why it is that custom.

Same with democracy, we live in one, so we RARELY ask why it is a Democracy, and how we keep it.

So what naturally happens is people, even politicians, do not see how they harm democracy, because they want to see certain other things done.

What harms democracy?

Central Government.

But the Central Government is so beneficial many say.

It can give us universal health care, it can give us social security, and it can give us common defense and so on.

Well yes these are all good things, but I'm stalwartly against all of them.

I believe in the autonomy of State Militias.

I am willing to sacrifice Universal Health Care, and Social Security and all benefits that come from the central government, JUST to keep a free country.

Because of that so long as I live and so long as my children survive, there will be SOMEONE to fight against a police state lol.

However, many disagree with me even here.

They don't see that what keeps democracy is the SAME thing that has kept Freemasonry from being dominated by one man.

That is "Autonomy."

The US was founded on the idea of "State's Rights".

A concept from Masonry, where Grand Lodges are their own laws, and they don't have to listen to eachother.

They tried this exactly with the Articles of Confederation but it doesn't seem to carry over exactly as it does in Freemasonry.

So they had to add a small central government, with the ability to do several things.

Coin the money (of which no state can accept unless it is backed by gold or silver, today's money is unconstitutional).

Provide for the common defense.

And provide for the post office, and the roads there of.

These are the ONLY powers of the Central government when it comes to budget.

All other powers are first given to the states, if they wave the right then the central government can handle it.

The problem is after the Civil War the States became "nothings" and they waved their rights, and people put all their trust in the Central Government.

Since then the country has been spiraling down hill.

I doubt very much that the US is losing freedoms for any reason other than "People today do not learn history, they do not educate themselves".

This I believe is a non-malicous event, I think it is just the normal course of things.

It's sad, and we can prevent it...but it's hard to go against nature. is man's destiny to go against nature so let's not give up HOPE!

posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 01:16 AM
You are killing me!
America was created by revolutionary englishmen and other western european outcasts and the stupidity of King George, one huge pompous ass, much like our current King George. The only thing Freemasons had to do with our Revolution was the French Mason's loaned Benjamin Franlin 5,000,000 dollars to supply the revolutionaries with weapons and hire some Hessians, I seem to remember the French granted us a naval blockade or someone did
And further more the only reason the French Masons gave the revolutionaries the finance was because their Ancient Founders the Egyptians, from whom the Masons derived the Compass and the Squqre, that enabled them to build all the magnificent structures of the Renasance [complete with Gargoyles] declared that from a land beyond will rise the ancient Phoenix, the Magical Eternal Bird, from the ashes of the New World.
point of interest that is why the Eagle is the national bird instead of Ben,s turkey and that is why the eye of Horus is above the Pyramid on the currency.

Tut Tut

withdraw from the debate or suffer extreme embarrasement at the hands of the Dragon

posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 01:44 AM
In terms of the whole 9/11 issue (lets not hijack every thread, that's why they are having a debate, right?)-- the Cabal/Illuminati did not "allow" terrorists to do 9/11. The illuminati themselves were behind it. Why? Look at all of the crap that has happened in this country, AND AROUND THE WORLD, since 9/11. All of a sudden, 9/11 becomes a "carte blanche" to call anybody a terrorist-- foreign or domestic. We have a war on "terrorism". That's about as descriptive as the "war on drugs". It is a construct, and Bush et al. can re-define who fits into that construct whenever they please.

How long do you think the war on terrorism will last? Bush himself said that it could be "months" or "years". The war on drugs isn't over, they have made no progress, but they sure have made a great deal of money from it! The war on terrorism is just another excuse.

USA: finally a dept of homeland security is developed. They have the 'terror alerts' color-coded, and have succeeded in conditioning the american public to OBEY, no matter what the cost, all in the name of terror.

While we have a REPORTED threat of anthrax in US mail, John Ashcroft & Co. are busy shutting down head shops and on-line water pipe businesses in the US. What is the priority here? Forget what they say- look at what they DO. Behavior dictates intention, politicians can be expected to lie.

We are ignoring the reality because most of us are too scared to ask questions- we have to have "faith" in our leaders in order to pull through this difficult time. By the time most wake up & realize what is actually happening, it will be too late to make a real difference.

This conditioning is made possible because they capitalize on our fear. Fear is a very powerful psychological control device.

Afghanistan- we've been trying to get an oil pipeline there for years, the CIA has vested interests in the poppy fields in order to fund their black operations around the world. It was time to put in our own government and remove the taliban. There's a reason why we never found osama- because we weren't really looking for him in the first place. The individuals responsible for 9/11 were laughing their asses off in the US, probably sitting inside NORAD.

Iraq- 9/11 provided justification for going back into Iraq and taking the oil fields. They kept us going through the entire war, scared for our troops that WMD's would be the troops, but ignore the cause! Additionally, there is a great deal of historical information in the deserts of Iraq.. who knows what it actually hides? There were also some suspicions about Saddam having in his possession some type of advanced craft. If he did, we've got it now.

Anyways, just realize that 9/11 happened at almost the PERFECT time for the agenda. 9/11 was all about misdirection, one of the foundational components of magical illusions. We are being lied to consistently, and we are quite used to it- so much so that many people don't even care about it anymore.

Is there hope? Yes there is hope. We will always outnumber them. As soon as we internalize this & put it into practice, their way of life is completely screwed.

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by MKULTRA]

posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 02:04 AM
Uh Tutankamen, there is one rule that should be recognized to you.

When it comes about the hard facts of the history of Freemasonry.

I am NEVER EVER wrong.

While mine like many other brethren, will have differing opinions about this or that concerning masonry.

I am NEVER wrong about Masonic history.

I have for years followed it from the merging of the Templars with the Freemasons some time after 1307, to present day.

I'm facinated with how much of a passive and somewhat active roll it has affected our society.

Those "revolutionary englishmen" were all aroused to war, by Freemasons.

The whole war was fought by Freemason Generals, from George Washington and Laffeyette to Cornwalis to Hayes to EVERYONE.

John Hancock, Alexander Hamilton.

The whole war, was led by Freemasons, the rebel "ancient masons" because that was the predominant influence in the americas at the time, wanted to create a new government based on Masonic Ideals.

Ancient Masonry is from Ireland, and until what...early 1800s can't remember the exact date ancient masonry and english masonry remained somewhat seperate.

Most masons in the english lodges became torries, and most masons in the ancient lodges joined the "cause" the rebellion against the King.

The only thing not recorded is how much Masonry in general influenced it.

Or if lodges just gave people with similar ideals a place to discuss such matters as "creating a new country."

God creating all men equal was heralded in Masonic Lodges for hundreds of years before the United States.

Ben Franklin was also a Mason.

While they are unsure of Thomas Jefferson, he DID sign into a lodge several times, so he had to have been a member somehow, to show up. Or else that lodge made a great exception for him due to the man he was.

posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 02:10 AM
Ok now tutankamen you're killing me *dies laughing*.

The compass and square came from Egypt? And these were the "ancient founders of French Freemasonry?"

No no...sorry you're ALL wrong.

While there's speculation to the EXACT derivation of all things in masonry, a few things are known.

Masonry never existed before the stone crafts guilds in middle aged Europe.

The Knights Templar did at some time shortly after their persecution, become stone masons so that they could move about and not be persecuted. Hiding so to speak.

Now that is where king solomon's temple is believed to entered into masonic ritual.

Now in my studies I found an interesting peculiarity.

Templars were EXCELLENT navigators.

And so the compass.

However the first templars to join masonry have been found in killmartin I think is the place name (not going to look it up), in scotland. But guess what, no Compass.

Just squares on their graves with their swords which is a given sign of a templar grave. (A blank tombstone with just a sword engraved due to their annonymity as soldiers of God).

Now so where does the compass come in?

Well as Templars passed on more into masonry, the ones that fled north to scotland with the fleet that is.

They needed away to better represent themselves....well what better way than to set forth the compass to the square.

And so "Compasses and square".

Which is odd because while the square is a working tool the compasses are not, and thus must have been introduced not as a "tool" in masonry, but as the last trace of Templars into Masonry.

And so you'll find the ancient graves of masons to have only a square in the corner, while newer graves (After the templars had more or less vanished and Masonry had been forever changed) to have Square and Compasses.

The G was probably introduced more when more and more speculative masons became masons, but I haven't bothered to research out the G much.

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by TheWanderer]

posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 02:21 AM
A few more things Tutankamen.

I've never heard about the "egyptian" prophecy of the Phoenix, a myth from Greece.

However there is a Templar prophecy of "Merica" the land of milk and honey. To the west, over the seas, it is thought that Templars sailed there and back, because carved in a Masonic made church "Rosslyn chapel", are things that resemble items from the new world.

Rosslyn was built in what 1433?

Anyways...Merica is now more or less understood to be the real derivative of the name "America" as the German acredited with marking the maps as saying "America is named for Amerigo" only 2 years afterwards corrected himself.

However, as for the "Eagle vs. the Turkey."

You may be surprised, but I know because I have seen the actual FIRST regimental flag of the Congressional army, and it was none other upon it than the Phoenix.

And the first bird was actually the Phoenix but it was changed to the Eagle in 1840s I believe, because by then too many were associating it with the Ben Franklin Turkey and thus misrepresenting what the Phoenix actually meant.

So if you ever find a US gold coing, I'm not sure of which denomination however, you'll see the Phoenix on it.

Many of the early gold coin had on it first a woman with locks of hair and such...interesting stuff.

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