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Originally posted by Possum Sandwich
We are attempting to impose an American-style democracy in Iraq
The councils are the legislative branch of the fledgling government, but they are basically inept and ineffective.
Their value system treasures immediate family, self, tribe members, friends, and other Muslims (to some extent). They do not feel allegiance to others outside of those groups
. Because the leaders’ values are focused on their special groups, their decisions favor those groups to the detriment of the country as a whole.
Iraqis have no national identity, and they do not feel a connection to a person simply because he is from the same country. For example, a typical man in Baghdad might identify himself as a Muslim and a member of the Al Ka’abi tribe, but not as an Iraqi.
On the other hand, Americans feel patriotic pride and believe that all living within our borders are connected and deserving of respect.
Many of us are willing to volunteer for national service and cherish what binds us all together. Iraqis do not believe in “Iraq”.
When citizens do not care about the country as a whole, their decisions and actions will be inconsistent with democracy.
Many Iraqis are strongly religious, which is not wrong in and of itself. But, their religious fervor often leads to a lack of tolerance and even hate for opposing religions and views.
It also causes harsh resistance to female participation in government.
When leaders mock and revile those different from themselves, the democracy is unstable and devolves into violence.
Taking kickbacks for awarding a government contract is expected, not unethical.
it ain't working.
My personal belief, which is shared by many of the Iraqis I met, is to adopt a constitutional monarchy with a benevolent leader that will use the oil revenues for the good of the people.
One plan many of them support is to bring back the cousin and heir to the throne of the deposed king, Faisal II.
Sorry, this is a bit of a rant. I feel quite strongly about the situation and have seen too many good Americans bleed and die just for an Iraqi to ask, "What have you done for me lately?"
Originally posted by skippytjc
We should have had TRIPLE the troops on the ground, at least!! Massive presence on the ground would have bought the US enough time to do some reconstruction and actually EARN the hearts and minds of the Iraqis.
Then methodically go from city to city doing the same. Rinse and repeat.
then we may as well pull out because what we are doing right now isn’t working, and will never work. The US will fail at this pace.
All they need to do is create doubt and insecurity they are doing that wonderfully.
Originally posted by skippytjc
You don’t get it. The bad stuff started to happen after we started to drop the ball.
THEN the insurgency started and to gain momentum. Its cause and effect.
The day that statue fell down, things were great and moral was high. No atrocities or misbehaving was going on yet.
Originally posted by edsinger
Because we either fight it now whilst we have the upper hand or fight it in 10 years when we dont.....
Now is the time - Osama asked for it, now he has got it. He just didnt plan of Afghanistan going quite so well and in the big picture, Iraq could have been much worse.....
NEW YORK An E & P report on USA Today founder Al Neuharth’s Thursday column for that newspaper has quickly drawn hundreds of emails. After an early surge against Neuharth, the response became equally divided.
In the column, Neuharth, noting the many soldiers far from home and in harm’s way at Christmas, called for a U.S. pullout from Iraq “sooner rather than later.” Neuharth served in World War II in France, Germany and the Philippines, but suggested that avoiding service in Iraq was proper today. He observed that WW II was "highly moral" and troops were “properly equipped.”
Here is a sampling of the responses:
A.P. Oliver, commander USN (ret.): “To withdraw troops from Iraq would qualify as the greatest surrender in history and invite direct attacks here in this country and ultimately drastically change the way we live. No respectful American could agree with your illogical conclusion.”
J. Boke, Titusville, FL: “Al Neuharth's war experience crippled his brain, or he's just too old to have much left. War experience doesn't necessarily make one wise. It CAN have a negative effect on one's judgement. It sounds like Mr. Neuharth, as well John McCain, both suffered mentally via their strong emotional suffering.”
Douglas Wickenheiser: "My son served one tour at the time of the Iraq invasion and is slated to return for a 2nd tour in May after only 13 months back in the U.S. This war should never have happened. My son has a deep distrust of all in the goverment. As part of the 101st airborne he will have to serve up to 1 yr longer than he enlisted for due to the stop-loss program. A full and quick withdrawal is the only answer to this gross misuse of presidential power."