It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Estonia President Toomas Ilves seeks permanent Nato force

page: 4
2
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 11:21 AM
link   
a reply to: intrptr

Yeah no..

The Nazis and Russians occupied. NATO is by choice. If you don't believe me ask France and the NATO charter.




posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 11:46 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

Yeah, ask the Czechs.



Wait, they NEVER got asked.


edit on 13-4-2015 by bullcat because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 12:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: bullcat
a reply to: Xcathdra

Yeah, ask the Czechs.



Wait, they NEVER got asked.



Do you not know whats going on in the video. Did you see the american flags in the background???? Heres what happened all along the parade route thousands showed up to see the Strikers drive by thus the american flags. A small group came in thats part of the shoving at the beginning and decided to hold a protest police separated the groups. Ive read estimates of anywhere from 100 to 300 people ethnic Russians not surprisingly held the counter protest. Your video there tries to mislead you about the size by showing the crowd for the military parade first.

However you defeated your own point since you could see people were obviously glad the US striker convoy was going through or wouldnt have American flags out on display would they????



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 12:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: bullcat
a reply to: Xcathdra

Yeah, ask the Czechs.



Wait, they NEVER got asked.



Do you not know whats going on in the video. Did you see the american flags in the background???? Heres what happened all along the parade route thousands showed up to see the Strikers drive by thus the american flags. A small group came in thats part of the shoving at the beginning and decided to hold a protest police separated the groups. Ive read estimates of anywhere from 100 to 300 people ethnic Russians not surprisingly held the counter protest. Your video there tries to mislead you about the size by showing the crowd for the military parade first.

However you defeated your own point since you could see people were obviously glad the US striker convoy was going through or wouldnt have American flags out on display would they????


Since obviously you do, can you hand write the translated narrative of the events, thanks.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 12:40 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: intrptr

Yeah no..

The Nazis and Russians occupied. NATO is by choice. If you don't believe me ask France and the NATO charter.


Oh poo. You cite history but leave out parts. When the Nazis displaced the Soviets people were happy, when the Soviets redisplaced the Nazis, people were happy. Each Empire stated their invasions were necessary. The Soviets stayed in Western Europe to keep a buffer zone. The were tired of the Germans invading Eastern Europe (twice last century).

Well golly gee, look whats happened since the Russians left? You want to defend more military incursions into Eastern Europe and threaten Russia even, at least call it what it is instead of hiding behind lies.
edit on 13-4-2015 by intrptr because: spelling



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 01:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: intrptr

Yeah no..

The Nazis and Russians occupied. NATO is by choice. If you don't believe me ask France and the NATO charter.


Oh poo. You cite history but leave out parts. When the Nazis displaced the Soviets people were happy, when the Soviets redisplaced the Nazis, people were happy. Each Empire stated their invasions were necessary. The Soviets stayed in Western Europe to keep a buffer zone. The were tired of the Germans invading Eastern Europe (twice last century).

Well golly gee, look whats happened since the Russians left? You want to defend more military incursions into Eastern Europe and threaten Russia even, at least call it what it is instead of hiding behind lies.


Nazis displaced the soviets??? In western Europe?? Do you have some weird alternate history book?? Heres the quick version In Eastern Europe Germans invaded poland Stalin had a deal so he invaded from the east. Now there was no liberation in Eastern Europe there was a power struggle. Poland for example just traded one opressor for another.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 01:11 PM
link   
a reply to: dragonridr


Nazis displaced the soviets??? In western Europe??

There was no Western Europe at the beginning of WWII. Try not to be too obvious when discrediting ATS members.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 01:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dragonridr


Nazis displaced the soviets??? In western Europe??

There was no Western Europe at the beginning of WWII. Try not to be too obvious when discrediting ATS members.


You try to correct a person on history and when corrected now you make it worse. So before WW2 there wasnt an east and a west?? Ill make this is easy for you Germans invaded western Europe Stalin invaded Eastern Europe. Yes they existed before world war two. No there was no soviet liberation of Eastern Europe. In fact there takeover was brutal. This is why many eastern European countries like Ukraine feared the soviets more than they did the Germans. Stalin's reputation as a bloodthirsty dictator preceded itself. You had countries like poland believe it or not that wished the soviets were not involved in attacking Germany. But like in all things in life politics makes for strange bedfellows. Yo defeat Germany the allies believed they needed Soviets to open a second front. They were under the misguided impression they could get them to leave Eastern Europe after it was over as they quickly learned they were wrong. So you have countries that suffered under Russian oppression for decades and the moment they could they jumped ship and didnt look back.

This is the true reason Russia is invading Georgia and Ukraine and threatening Eastern Europe they want what they consider their territory back. This land never belonged to the Russians thats all Soviet lies in fact there were very few Ethnic Russians in any of these lands. Not until Stalin started his purges shipping polls and Ukrainians to siberian labor camps and moving Russians into the territory. Though this process of Russianization if you will started before this in May 1944 the entire Crimean Tatar population of Crimea was exiled to Central Asia, mainly to Uzbekistan. Russians were given their land. Before you venture into world War two to prove a point may pay for your to learn about what happened. Ill give you another shocker Soviets wanted to claim bandara was a nazi he wasnt. Blame him for killing Jews even when he didnt he was in a Nazi prison camp at the time. He was removed from the picture by the Germans because they could control the group better. They knew he wouldnt go for the plan especially since his organization was actively hiding jews from the germans. Now ironically he did consider the Germans less of a threat to Ukraine than the Soviets and well with good reason. Back from history this is why countries in eastern Europe today dont want to return to the Russian fold has nothing to do with the west and everything to do with they have memories of the past.
edit on 4/13/15 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Aleister
Estonia doesn't need NATO protection, it needs grown-ups running it.


Hang on, why is it a threat to Russia for there to be Nato forces in Europe, but "childish" for Estonia to be threatened by 40,000 Russian troops on its border?


If there were 40k Russian troops by the US border .. how would you react ..?
Remember, NATO is THERE, and this is causing the escalation ..
When a virus enters your body, your white blood cells are activated to fight, are they not?
Use common sense!



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: Rocker2013
strategically it would make more sense to go for Belarus first. Taking all three would give them the coast of the Baltic Sea and connect Russia to Kaliningrad, but attacking a Nato country is risky business for Putin. Belarus is not a Nato member, and taking that would give Russia access to more of the border with both Lithuania and Latvia too.

Russia already has Belarus in a tight grip. Lukashenko is a joke, a clown in Putin's castle. Belarus' borders would be wide open for Russian military movement. And that's kinda scary when you look at the map, also considering the fact Kaliningrad is militarized to the teeth right now.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: junglimogli

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Aleister
Estonia doesn't need NATO protection, it needs grown-ups running it.


Hang on, why is it a threat to Russia for there to be Nato forces in Europe, but "childish" for Estonia to be threatened by 40,000 Russian troops on its border?


If there were 40k Russian troops by the US border .. how would you react ..?
Remember, NATO is THERE, and this is causing the escalation ..
When a virus enters your body, your white blood cells are activated to fight, are they not?
Use common sense!


Nato didnt cause any escalation the countries near russia feel the need to protect themselves by the way 40000 troops is nothing Russia has over 3 million counting reserves. If a country feels the need to join NATO they apply must meet strict standards and spend lots of money to conform to NATO standards. If a country is willing to spend this much money and effort than you have to ask yourself why? The obvious answer they see a threat and think NATO is the best option to mitigate that threat. NATO has nothing to do with the countries decision to join only the requirements to do so.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 02:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: intrptr
There was no Western Europe at the beginning of WWII. Try not to be too obvious when discrediting ATS members.


Please save your rewriting of history for another thread. You have consistently shown that you either do not know the first thing about European history, or you're deliberately trolling.

We are discussing the Estonian request for a permanent placement of Nato in the country, the threats to Estonia, the likely political course etc.

We are not rehashing the history of Europe, nor rewriting it to suit an argument. This is all irrelevant even if your "version" of history were in any way correct.

Please start your own thread if you want to discuss an alternate European history.

Other lovely contributors, please try to refrain from indulging posters attempting to derail this thread with the usual nonsense. I know it's hard, but this is merely a distraction from the actual discussion.

edit on 13-4-2015 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 03:39 PM
link   
a reply to: intrptr

The Nazis and Soviets occu0pied..

Nato is membership and any nation can ask to join and any nation who joins is free to leave.

The Nazis occupied...
The Soviet Union occupied...

NATO has no standing military aside from liaison officers. Regardless of how you try and distort history it is clear on all 3 entities.

Show me a nation who chose to join NATO that is under NATO occupation. I will help you out - There is not one.

Currently the only nation illegally occupying territory of another nation is Russia.

By the way the Soviets displaced Germans in Prussia and displaced Tatars in Crimea. Just like they are doing to the Tatars today in Crimea.

I fully expect to see the same shenanigans occur in the Baltic nations that Russia used as a failed excuse to invade Ukraine.
edit on 13-4-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 03:45 PM
link   
a reply to: junglimogli

Actually NO, NATO was NOT present. NATO has no standing military and relies on individual member nations militaries for operations. Until Russia invaded Ukraine, there were no "Nato" forces deployed in bordering countries of Russia. Because of Russias invasion of Ukraine and their threats to the Baltic nations and Poland did those nations request placement of member nations militaries to augment their own.

Putin and his insane actions have created the very scenario he bitches about.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 03:48 PM
link   
a reply to: junglimogli




Remember, NATO is THERE, and this is causing the escalation ..


No the actions of one Vladimir Putin is causing NATO to do what they are doing.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 04:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
It's up to NATO to decide if they want Estonia to be part of their protection,


Estonia is a member of NATO and has been since 2004. Just one of many ex-Soviet vassals who ran westward and away from Russian autocracy. I wonder why?



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 04:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
It's up to NATO to decide if they want Estonia to be part of their protection,


Estonia is a member of NATO and has been since 2004. Just one of many ex-Soviet vassals who ran westward and away from Russian autocracy. I wonder why?


I thin he meant that even if Russia invaded, Estonia is still required to invoke article V in order for NATO to respond. If Estonia doesn't invoke, Nato is not involved.

At least I think that is what he is stating and I think the Nato charter agrees.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 04:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
It's up to NATO to decide if they want Estonia to be part of their protection,


Estonia is a member of NATO and has been since 2004. Just one of many ex-Soviet vassals who ran westward and away from Russian autocracy. I wonder why?


I thin he meant that even if Russia invaded, Estonia is still required to invoke article V in order for NATO to respond. If Estonia doesn't invoke, Nato is not involved.

At least I think that is what he is stating and I think the Nato charter agrees.


It does what people dont get about NATO is it just sets standards for military cooperation. They have something called stagnets basically this tells the member nations what calibers to use in weapons or rules for standardized communications. NATO is not an army its a defense pact whos sole purpose is to make it easy for members to integrate with their existing military. Say france was invaded the UK could immediately help at their request. All the coordination has already been done. So Russia screaming about NATO is silly they dont have a military!! Nato cant even attack Russia a member state could but think that would make it unlikely that other members would help. So in a country like Estonia if they put there massive military on the border and attacked Russia. (yes this is sarcasm) I really doubt another country would be willing to comit troops to help. But the advantage is if Russia invades than a request is made by a member they are required to.

Russia want us to believe NATO has the capability to attack Russia in a preemptive strike it doesnt. For nations like Estonia what it means is help because they know they cant survive a Russian invasion on their own.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 05:32 PM
link   
a reply to: paraphi




Estonia is a member of NATO and has been since 2004.


I know, and I have to ask myself why I did that...I just asked and my brain said it was on a smoke break when I made that comment.

Damn brain.



Just one of many ex-Soviet vassals who ran westward and away from Russian autocracy. I wonder why?


Once you have been through that system you do what you have to to keep from going back.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 06:17 PM
link   
a reply to: dragonridr


This is the true reason Russia is invading Georgia and Ukraine and threatening Eastern Europe they want what they consider their territory back.

Russia isn't invading Eastern Ukraine. Nice try at rewriting history though. Like you did with that whole other spiel.

Before the Nazis there was just European countries, no dividing into eastern or western. That came after WWII, dinkums.… how old are you? They teach you this in Video Games?

sheesh… but go ahead and make everything the fault of Stalin, I mean the Soviets, I mean the Russians, I mean Putin. You need the excuse to justify NATOs actions.




top topics



 
2
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join