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Estonia President Toomas Ilves seeks permanent Nato force

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posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

Thanks to Russia, these types of convoys and constant military exercises will only intensify. Silly Russia, doing everything to strengthen the NATO.




posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

While Russia continues to hold military exercises right on the border with numbers that dwarf any NATO exercise many times over. But I'm sure Russia isn't trying to send any message with that show if force.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: gmacev


Russians just taking back old CCCP countries.
As i am living in LT too i wont me to happy to see green peoples in my town.
Or bandits who killing peoples.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: intrptr




Look, it not a military convoy, its a parade…


You do know that video doesn't back your NATO expanding claim...


Dozens of Stryker and other armoured vehicles from the 3rd Squadron of the 2nd Cavalry Regiment, with support from US Air Force Black Hawk and Chinook helicopters, took part in the exercise to show Nato's readiness to defend its members.

The Dragoon Ride convoy started in Estonia and has passed through Latvia, Lithuania and Poland before entering the Czech Republic. The convoy will then head back to its to base in Vilseck, southern Germany.


www.ibtimes.co.uk...

Seems to me that for NATO to be expanding they would have newer members after 2009, and yet they don't...not a very good expansion plan to be scared of, as they aren't really in a hurry now are they?



Albania
2009

Belgium
1949

Bulgaria
2004

Canada
1949

Croatia
2009

Czech Republic
1999

Denmark
1949

Estonia
2004

France
1949

Germany
1955

Greece
1952

Hungary
1999

Iceland
1949

Italy
1949

Latvia
2004

Lithuania
2004

Luxembourg
1949

Netherlands
1949

Norway
1949

Poland
1999

Portugal
1949

Romania
2004

Slovakia
2004

Slovenia
2004

Spain
1982

Turkey
1952

United Kingdom
1949

United States
1949


www.nato.int...



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: Aleister
a reply to: Rocker2013

Because to face force with force just sets up an accidental confrontation (whoops, sorry world, my finger slipped, or my girlfriend is cheating on me and I just had to take it out on somebody). Russia knows that if it moved on Estonia it would face combined forces to drive it back - they're not that stupid. Hopefully some sense will prevail in all of this and the next generation of Russian leaders will be friendly and trusting, and everyone can stand down a bit.



While I agree with pretty much everything you've said, I do think this is a little naive, perhaps innocent.
Governments have to secure their nations, this is the reality of the world we live in. There are two options, either do nothing and risk being attacked/invaded/occupied, or try to prevent that through defense.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all for a nation to have defenses against a neighbor threatening their security.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254




But I'm sure Russia isn't trying to send any message with that show if force.



It's funny because the only message this convoy was showing is that as a NATO member we wouldn't allow them or any NATO nation the same fate as Ukraine.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
Yes, the evil Russians might occupy his city in 'four hours' so NATO has to occupy it first.



I'm not sure you understand the difference between an ally and an enemy.
An occupation is the invasion of a foreign force which then refuses to leave. This is about creating a permanent Nato presence in the country (note: not capital), many of whom would also presumably Estonian nationals.

I know this is not what you want, but this is the reality - one is an invasion and occupation, the other is an allied defensive force being REQUESTED.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
With things to fear I am guessing that ,for NATO to remain relevant they have to have a scared country to protect from the Russian boogyman Bear


Damn, if only Nato hadn't refused a couple of very strategically beneficial countries, maybe this notion that Nato is desperately trying to get every country but Russia on its side would actually have some credibility.

You know, Ukraine and Georgia, for instance, who both wanted to join Nato in 2008 and were both refused.

A little hard to claim that Nato's sole ambition is to encircle Russia when it has rejected two very important countries in the past.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 03:20 PM
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originally posted by: gmacev
a reply to: intrptr

Thanks to Russia, these types of convoys and constant military exercises will only intensify. Silly Russia, doing everything to strengthen the NATO.


It is quite remarkable isn't it? Spend decades complaining that Nato is a threat because it's circling your nation, then start invading other nations, flying over their borders, kidnapping border guards, meddling in their media, broadcasting propaganda, threatening their sovereignty...

You know, given that we have so many conspiracy-minded people here, you would have thought there would be more suspicion that Russia seems to be working FOR Nato, it seems to be doing everything it can to justify its existence and everything Nato has achieved since its creation.

If Russia was genuinely concerned about the "threat" of Nato, it would stop being aggressive to its neighbors and giving them more reasons to want to be a part of Nato.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

It may have had something to do with qualifying then the desire .Deputed borders or civil wars are qualifiers for disqualification I think .



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 04:17 PM
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Let me put it bluntly, to the Americans.

It is a Euro-Russian problem, not an American problem.

1) Stay at home
2) Stay the F out of our business.

and

3) Quit saying "oh but you will come running to us" lines

Isn't that OUR problem?

Your noses and fingers are as large as yer gobs (and stomachs).


edit on 12-4-2015 by bullcat because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 04:21 PM
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a reply to: Rocker2013




If Russia was genuinely concerned about the "threat" of Nato, it would stop being aggressive to its neighbors and giving them more reasons to want to be a part of Nato.
Russia being the other super power may just end up taking a page from # 1 in the future .I mean even the US has decided to change it's policy towards South America and Cuba . Maybe the US figured it was time to practice what you preach in order to convince others to be like minded .



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Rocker2013




If Russia was genuinely concerned about the "threat" of Nato, it would stop being aggressive to its neighbors and giving them more reasons to want to be a part of Nato.
Russia being the other super power may just end up taking a page from # 1 in the future .I mean even the US has decided to change it's policy towards South America and Cuba . Maybe the US figured it was time to practice what you preach in order to convince others to be like minded .


Because Russia can just park some nukes there, that is why the Americans are warming to Cuba again.

Never the less, China and Russia don't really need nukes parked in Cuba, they can just pop up some subs like they have done before.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

and

Russia is not the only ones probing defences, so is Americans probing Russias.

rt.com...



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

Let's not forget that Russia was also offered membership. However, they wanted special treatment and when they didn't get it they refused.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 05:10 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Rocker2013

Let's not forget that Russia was also offered membership. However, they wanted special treatment and when they didn't get it they refused.


And why didn't the US cooperate with Russia who wanted to cooperate on the missile shield? What is America hiding that they don't want Russia to see?



edit on 12-4-2015 by bullcat because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h


You do know that video doesn't back your NATO expanding claim…

Neither does the thread title, right?



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: Rocker2013


I know this is not what you want, but this is the reality - one is an invasion and occupation, the other is an allied defensive force being REQUESTED.

Tell that to the people in Kosovo and the eastern portion of Ukraine what it means to resist NATO. Or the entire Middle East for that matter. Besides Russia and China…
edit on 12-4-2015 by intrptr because: bb code



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 05:37 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: intrptr




Look, it not a military convoy, its a parade…


You do know that video doesn't back your NATO expanding claim...


Dozens of Stryker and other armoured vehicles from the 3rd Squadron of the 2nd Cavalry Regiment, with support from US Air Force Black Hawk and Chinook helicopters, took part in the exercise to show Nato's readiness to defend its members.

The Dragoon Ride convoy started in Estonia and has passed through Latvia, Lithuania and Poland before entering the Czech Republic. The convoy will then head back to its to base in Vilseck, southern Germany.


www.ibtimes.co.uk...

Seems to me that for NATO to be expanding they would have newer members after 2009, and yet they don't...not a very good expansion plan to be scared of, as they aren't really in a hurry now are they?



Albania
2009

Belgium
1949

Bulgaria
2004

Canada
1949

Croatia
2009

Czech Republic
1999

Denmark
1949

Estonia
2004

France
1949

Germany
1955

Greece
1952

Hungary
1999

Iceland
1949

Italy
1949

Latvia
2004

Lithuania
2004

Luxembourg
1949

Netherlands
1949

Norway
1949

Poland
1999

Portugal
1949

Romania
2004

Slovakia
2004

Slovenia
2004

Spain
1982

Turkey
1952

United Kingdom
1949

United States
1949


www.nato.int...


They're working on it, hence the latest rounds of cry wolf, all they need now is Wing Walkers flying by dropping leaflets.

They're currently doing the tour of provocation around Europe ignoring the people of those countries protesting against it. Very very impolite.

NATO's purpose was against the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, neither of which exist today, yet NATO still lingers about and meddles in other affairs, that's called mission creep. They found a new existence, and wants more money, well funny how ISIS is expected to cost at LEAST $100 BILLION (that would make Dr. Evil proud). NATO is a money making machine.

America never left Europe after the WW2. Never will. Every chance they get to prevent Europe standing on it's own, America is meddling again.

edit on 12-4-2015 by bullcat because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: bullcat

No verification of that sub claim except for un named sources which could be anyone really. Also its more liek the US navy just didnt give a damn or they were tracking it but at a distance out of detection range of it. And the "chinese" one popping up near a carrier group was a slick way to get more funding and it worked. all they had to do was sacrifice some commanders who were easy to replace.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 06:49 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Estonia is a NATO member, they have 150 American military temporarily there and NATO member states police their airspace.

The request is for a larger more permanent presence to be more of a deterrent.

I don't think they should play into Russia's hands, if Russia where to attack a member state it would be different to Crimea, that said, would be interesting to see what NATO has learned from Crimea, I mean, if a load of armed 'Estonians' (Russian soldiers on holiday) undermined the government with pro Russian attacks and protests etc. What their response would be if the police where overwhelmed?



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