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Estonia President Toomas Ilves seeks permanent Nato force

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posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 08:00 AM
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Just read this on the BBC and thought it was worth a share on here.

It adequately highlights what many have been saying about the position Russia has taken with the "threat" of Nato; if Russia is so threatened by Nato, why act in ways which will only result in pushing your neighbours further toward Nato? It's no longer an adequate excuse for Russian aggression. If you don't want Nato in your back yard, stop justifying its existence and stop doing things that can only lead to those countries wanting Nato within their borders.



Estonian President Toomas Ilves has called for a permanent Nato force to be stationed in his country. Mr Ilves told the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper that Estonia felt threatened by Russian military flights and exercises in the area, as well as by belligerent rhetoric from Moscow.




But the 1997 Nato-Russia Founding Act forbids the presence of permanent bases in eastern and central Europe.


Estonia President Toomas Ilves seeks permanent Nato force

He's correctly pointing out that while Nato can move and mobilize forces in supposedly 48 hours (although I find this hard to believe), he rightly points out that Russia could be in control of their capital within four hours.

There's also a whiff of justification to nullifying the 1997 Nato-Russia Founding Act, which assures Russia that there will be no permanent placement of Nato forces in Central and Eastern Europe. Could we see this act being removed if Estonia pushes for permanent Nato placement?


edit on 12-4-2015 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2015 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 08:05 AM
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When is some country going to ask the nations of the world to pack up their weapons and go home. Weapons manufacturers cause so much of this, and sometimes its like putting matches into the hands of a baby (or Richard Pryor). Estonia doesn't need NATO protection, it needs grown-ups running it.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 08:09 AM
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originally posted by: Aleister
Estonia doesn't need NATO protection, it needs grown-ups running it.


Hang on, why is it a threat to Russia for there to be Nato forces in Europe, but "childish" for Estonia to be threatened by 40,000 Russian troops on its border?



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 08:14 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

Because to face force with force just sets up an accidental confrontation (whoops, sorry world, my finger slipped, or my girlfriend is cheating on me and I just had to take it out on somebody). Russia knows that if it moved on Estonia it would face combined forces to drive it back - they're not that stupid. Hopefully some sense will prevail in all of this and the next generation of Russian leaders will be friendly and trusting, and everyone can stand down a bit.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 08:17 AM
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Yes, the evil Russians might occupy his city in 'four hours' so NATO has to occupy it first.


edit on 12-4-2015 by intrptr because: change



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 08:40 AM
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With things to fear I am guessing that ,for NATO to remain relevant they have to have a scared country to protect from the Russian boogyman Bear .It could be a good move for them to have a military force to deal with unrest that is sure to start showing it's ugly head . The sanctions on Russia are hurting EU more then they ever could have hurt Russia . I think Russia understands that if you invade it you are responsible to take care of it .I laugh ,because of that thought if you break it you own it and my mind went to Iraq and Libya . Russia is not afraid of NATO and have no need to invade Estonia . What are they good for ? Do they even have a culture ? Fascinating times we live in .



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 08:58 AM
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Also some finnish politicians are calling for Finland to join nato, anyway they have called this for many years now but seems like majority do not wish that to happen. Estonia is right next to Finland and both have borders to Russia, i wonder how that would go down if both countries would decided to join nato now. Maybe its the plan all along, it would create at least much more higher tension between EU/NATO vs Russia, perhaps even would start a large scale war ( long waited ww3).

Anyways to me it seems like world is shaping right now with big moves and imho again its about domination over others and so on, so more war games, that is what we are best at it i guess but maybe this time it wont be stopped in few years either, maybe we will learn to live in real war-zones in every damned continent!



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: romilo




Also some finnish politicians are calling for Finland to join nato, anyway they have called this for many years now but seems like majority do not wish that to happen.


It's up to NATO to decide if they want Estonia to be part of their protection, as Estonia has to apply just as every nation wanting to become part of NATO has to do.

And as soon as Russia pushes into another Baltic State I am willing to bet that changes where Finland will do more to be part of NATO.



Maybe its the plan all along, it would create at least much more higher tension between EU/NATO vs Russia, perhaps even would start a large scale war ( long waited ww3).


You do understand that NATO and the EU are not connected except that some EU countries are part of NATO, but other than that they are two separate entities. NATO doesn't dictate what the EU does, and the EU doesn't dictate what NATO does.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 10:18 AM
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Join NATO and you forfeit your NEUTRALITY.

That is why 1) Ireland is NOT in NATO, 2) Finaland is NOT in NATO, 3) Sweden is NOT in NATO, 4) Switzerland is NOT in NATO etc.

They are officially recognised as neutral.

I always hold onto a Neutral country passports, for this very reason.

Always a go to place.

This will also be an issue once EU makes a unified security policy / force. This WILL affect a few member countries, and will be HOTLY contested, it already is a contested issue, just by being a member state of the EU.

In fact this may even cause some to break away from the EU.

Estonians are the LAPDOG of NATO, that is very well known. Just watch them talk at the UN meetings, if they could crawl further up their backsides, they would need a flash light.


edit on 12-4-2015 by bullcat because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 10:34 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

russia has proven their intent to reclaim lost territory multiple times the past 10 years yet people still don't take fears of invasion from them seriously? i'm quite amazed how hypocritical that is coming from people calling america the devil for similar actions when nothing was taken from who we invaded.
and who do people think think they are condemning nations for acting in self defense, saying any invasion would be their fault just because they allied with others to protect themselves?



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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Estonia doesn't want to end up like Crimea or Donbass or Donetsk. Watching as part of it's land mass is simply annexed by the Russian Federation and it's businesses handed over to Russian Oligarchs by Putin as a reward for supporting the Russian dictator.

Estonia is clearly asking for help in keeping it's land out of Russian hands.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
Estonia doesn't want to end up like Crimea or Donbass or Donetsk. Watching as part of it's land mass is simply annexed by the Russian Federation and it's businesses handed over to Russian Oligarchs by Putin as a reward for supporting the Russian dictator.

Estonia is clearly asking for help in keeping it's land out of Russian hands.


The politicians of a country asking does not always equate to the people asking.

Unless of course you think Obama and his cronies talk for all American people and their wishes


European issues are for Europeans, not Americans, that right there is the source of the problem. Interference.

We all know politicians are bought and sold and coerced.


edit on 12-4-2015 by bullcat because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 11:05 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

what are they good for? it was part of russia for over 200 years, it has coastal territory, ports, naval bases, lots of shale oil and underwater baltic sea oil fields are nearby.

russia has plenty of reason to take estonia especially with europe weaning itself off nuclear power and becoming more reliant on coal and oil once again, if russia plays it right then europe will become theirs through this new reliance.

estonia and other former russian states in europe may be weak individually but those states together is what made the soviet union so much more powerful than the current russia, they have good reason to take it back and europe has good reason to prevent that before they become too weak to do so, if they aren't already.

crimea was just the start of the russian reconquest and as long as the west continues to look weak it will continue.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 11:27 AM
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It's sad how some on these boards are so epically confused.

The us depending on the thread is either running the world as an evil empire or a dead empire waiting on a death rattle.

If Estonia feels threatened it is only 1 of 2 things, Russian threats and adventures in Georgia and Ukraine have scared them... Or its a politician trying to increase his own power using the specter of a Russian boogeyman to do so.

That's it...



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: namehere

Sounds to e that they may end up being Russia's by default then .With such deposits of natural resources and strategic position they should be able to afford their own army to fend off the Bear and be a economic power within the EU .It's been over 20 years sense the collapse of the soviet union so it's not like they haven't had time to develop .What might be the reason for their lack of power ? They are also part of a larger economic block then Russia so it's makes it hard for me to imagine why .



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 11:40 AM
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a reply to: bullcat

Neutral countries are worse than the warmongering nations!

They know it's wrong but they will play at being blind so as long as they are left alone by those that are on the warpath.

Yet if they got hit, they'd be screaming for help from their neighbours but if the roles are reversed, they aren't interested.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Your statement tells me that you don't know about the situation in the baltic. First Estonia is a part of nato. Has been since 1996, it took them 4 yrs after gaining their independence again to fullfill all nato requirements and join. The same goes for latvia and Lithuania. Next Estonia was never a part of a economic block. They were occupied by the red army. Same goes for latvia and Lithuania next, estonias standard of living is the highest in the baltics. Mostly due to trad with the Nordics, and other baltics as well as there natural resources. There standard is quickly rising to that of the Nordics, or Western Europe further they have done it in the last 25 years without the help of russia and mostly through the help of eu via subsidies to grow their industries. None of that happened when they were a part of Russia, as Russia's model was to enrich Russia via forced contributions to them from the satellites. It's true that all of the baltics do have russian nationals within their borders. However, they are nato nations, and protected under nato while I do believe they have a right to self defense and self determination I do agree that nato should honor the agreement to keep nato troops out of Eastern Europe. That said if the eu wanted to place a force their. They made no such agreement with Russia.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: namehere


russia has proven their intent to reclaim lost territory multiple times the past 10 years yet people still don't take fears of invasion from them seriously?

Not as serious as NATO expansion. People outside the influence of the western main stream media dont need to be told.

Warsaw Pact disbanded, NATO expanded into the vacuum left behind.




posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

Except NATO didn't aggressively expand. The new member states asked to join NATO. And why? Because they knew what life living under Russian rule was like and they didn't want to go back to that. If Russia is so concerned with NATO expanding maybe they should stop scaring their neighbors.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 02:01 PM
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Except NATO didn't aggressively expand.

reply to: Xcalibur254

The peaceful the better, right.

Look, it not a military convoy, its a parade…



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