Activists Trying to Stop Billion Dollar development in Grand Canyon

originally posted by: Metallicus
The Grand Canyon is like a spiritual gift to all that visit her. There is no way we need to pollute her with grumpy, entitled tourists and obnoxious children buying the latest widget. Leave a few sacred places for our children and grand children.

I totally agree with this...despite our differences!

originally posted by: Drunkenparrot
If the tribe supports this then I say let them have it.

IMHO they were here first and have done a good job for a few thousand years, who are a bunch of anonymous people totally detached from the issue to tell them what they can or cannot due in regards to developing their reservation?

Exactly, I agree completely with your statement.

As I stated above, the Navajo Nation can build their way and avoid the mistakes made by others.

scholarsarchive.jwu.edu...

originally posted by: InTheLight


As I stated above, the Navajo Nation can build their way and avoid the mistakes made by others.

I applaud your idealism but not your naivete.

Corruption, greed and money doesn't stop at the borders of the reservations or pueblos.

www.navajo-government-corruption.com...

I know that we like to idealize the Native American lifestyle and societies but in fact they operate like all people regardless of race.

I'm in NM and live on the borders of 3 pueblos and the Navajo Rez. The only tribe that I know of that subscribes to the "old ways" are the Jemez people.

a reply to: olaru12

Well, from I can deduce from their master plan and what was being said at their committee meeting, I think they have a good handle on how to build for the least amount of impact, unlike what it going on there already with the helicopter tours and hikers trampling the land.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

You are right, that is how corporate greed works, because without a corporate backing the Navajo people can not launch this endeavor, so is easy to find out who is behind the venture.

This is nothing than using certain laws and bills that protect and give rights to native Americans for corporate take over of national parks.

Is interesting, because the land is Navajo, where the project is to begin, but is other tribes that own land and they are opposing the project, the Hopi and Zuni tribes, they agree that this will damage their historical and sacred sites.

Also this venture while it will promise to provide needed income to Navajo people it will give the power over the land to the corporate entities involve.

No good.

a reply to: lostbook

Golly, I DO hope this paves the way to paint Snookie's orangey visage across one side, replace Niagara Falls with a jumbotron depicting Niagara Falls (nobody gets mist on them, but can still experience it), cut down the redwoods so they can stop being in the way of potential McDonalds locations.

originally posted by: marg6043
Is interesting, because the land is Navajo, where the project is to begin, but is other tribes that own land and they are opposing the project, the Hopi and Zuni tribes, they agree that this will damage their historical and sacred sites.

Also this venture while it will promise to provide needed income to Navajo people it will give the power over the land to the corporate entities involve.

No good.

The Navajo state that the Hopi already give guided tours (trampling their sacred land) to hikers and kayakers for profit. The Navajo will not allow people to veer off the walkways to trample their land, nor will they have any type of tours that will negatively impact the environment, as is the case now with others ruining the environment.

Where is all of you people's outrage on the existing environmental destruction going on right now in the Grand Canyon and other U.S. parks?

Finally, a foreign investment group is planning to expand the town of Tusayan, which lies just outside the south entrance to Grand Canyon National Park. The project includes a spa, dude ranch, hotels, and more than 2,200 homes – representing a 1,000 percent expansion of the current population. This expansion may require substantial withdrawals of groundwater from the aquifer. Ongoing drought has dramatically affected this area of the country. Increased groundwater withdrawal could negatively impact ecologically important seeps and springs within the Grand Canyon itself. - See more at: act.americanrivers.org...

act.americanrivers.org...

Again, with what I have seen of the Navajo's master plan, I don't think it will negatively impact the environment.

a reply to: InTheLight

like I was reading, it does seems like an honest good way to get some more income in the name of jobs and opportunities for the Navajo people, but when it comes to corporate greed and the years that corporate developer groups had been trying to get their hands on national parks due to the high traffic for investments, they are using this opportunity to open the door to national land.

Sadly this will end up as a grab for land that while look like a benefit it will do more harm than good and like everything it will take years to see the damage and more often than not it will be too late.

Corporate greed is behind the good intentions it has always been like that and it will always be like that.

a reply to: InTheLight

How are they going to prevent people from getting off the path, or tossing trash off the path... Or once the stigma of building here has been removed, prevent other companies from bribing officials to get permission to build there?

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: InTheLight

How are they going to prevent people from getting off the path, or tossing trash off the path... Or once the stigma of building here has been removed, prevent other companies from bribing officials to get permission to build there?

Have a listen to the committee meeting at the 16:45 mark and keep listening as to what is happening (negative impact from existing tourism) at the Confluence right now.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: InTheLight
So, no one here has any faith in the native people to do everything in their power to build responsibly with respect to sacred lands and minimizing all types of pollution?

Nope. The fact that they are even building it at all where they are is irresponsible.

Not to mention that Native Americans are still classed as humans last time I checked, and humans can't be trusted regardless their ethnic background.

If their medicine men are Okay with it, then I have no reservations about them proceeding. You see, I visit my friend in her native sacred land, and there is no way any spiritual people can simply disregard it's power.

You're assuming these guys are impervious to corruption. I lived in New Mexico, we where surrounded by natives, they are no different than the rest of us. The same forces that make us go against our own interests, effect them. Natives can be psychopaths too. Some don't give a #. The spiritual stuff is a nice stereotype to have, but they are as human as the rest of us. Medicine men could be as corrupt as popes.

And you are assuming that they lend themselves to corruption, whereas when listening to their intended plans during a committee meeting, I realized that they are planning to build the tram and walkways into the canyon, in such a way as to have almost no impact on the land and the sacred areas after it is built. During the build, there may be some impact, but I am sure they will attempt to minimize any detrimental effects. Whereas the Hopi, take kayakers and hikers into their sacred areas on the bottom of the canyon, so are you telling me there is no impact to the land with all those people hiking and trampling the land?

They have no authority in the decision, a shopping mall on the grand canyon is disgraceful. It's the type of thing you see in a post apocalyptic movie. Not far removed from ISIS smashing their people's history.

They don't own the grand canyon. I'm ok with making it accessible for more people to enjoy, but not a mall. build the mall some where close by, make it the most impressive mall ever built, but not AT the grand canyon. The grand canon should never be used for that purpose. The medicine men are out of touch with their nature. We should minimize our imprint on the most beautiful parts of nature. These are places that allow people to get away from the rush of consumerism. I'm against it. it's wrong. I don't want to be reminded of your city when it when I'm taking in the better parts of life. We will run out of places to escape if money has anything to do about it.

a reply to: lostbook

Kinda like people who go to Paris to eat at McDonalds. Why don't they just stay home and watch the movie?


F&S&

a reply to: mahatche

If you listen to the committee meeting, one delegate says all you can hear at the Grand Canyon now is helicopter and plane noise, while rafters, kayakers and hikers swim in the river, and relieve themselves behind bushes on sacred land. If the majority of the people vote for a mall on the top, rim of the canyon, then they can build whatever they want for the good of their community.

originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: lostbook

NBC News
This story better explains the Navajo Chief is one partner of the Developers Confluence Partners. He is fronting $65 million of tribes money on infrastructure. His reasoning for supporting the project is his people are very poor and the suicide rate is high.

All true statements and l feel badly for their plight. They have few casinos for income.

But this decision is wrong. Hopefully, an alternative can be found that less intrusive on the "church".

how about taking that 65 million and creating several small authentic looking pueblo villages spaced accordingly, and a Navajo museum, maybe large teepee tourist tents with cookouts and horseback riding to give tourists a feel for the way they lived back then. geez, there are so many ways to put that 65 million to work to better poor tribal members, be creative.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: mahatche

If you listen to the committee meeting, one delegate says all you can hear at the Grand Canyon now is helicopter and plane noise, while rafters, kayakers and hikers swim in the river, and relieve themselves behind bushes on sacred land. If the majority of the people vote for a mall on the top, rim of the canyon, then they can build whatever they want for the good of their community.

All the more reason to prevent it from getting worse. A tourist spot will never be the best place to get in touch with nature, but for a person from a big city ,whose never known nature, some of those tourist spots are their first introduction. A mall cheapens it more than it's already been.

There should be crews hired for cleanup daily and cameras set up to bust litterers with huge fines. I think this will happen, looks like it already has. The mall should be limited to American made items.

a reply to: AdamuBureido

That is debatable. Is there any proof that what you are referencing is related to this? Or are you just in obsessed with Mccain and co? That would be unhealthy infatuation. It is also lowering the level of conversation to petty partisan nonsense. I doubt it helps actually find a rational conclusion if all you do is throw in hateful talking points you came loaded with that dont actually have anything to do with the subject at hand.

originally posted by: Acidx
There should be crews hired for cleanup daily and cameras set up to bust litterers with huge fines. I think this will happen, looks like it already has. The mall should be limited to American made items.

You're talking about a monumental task. What about the manufacturing and transportation of goods and services in and out of the Canyon? Traffic back-ups, noise, pedestrian/ commuter traffic. This could be a logistical nightmare.

There are plenty of areas to build that stuff, why there ? Oh, because they are idiots.