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Video of fatal police shooting involving Idaho family in WalMart parking lot

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posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: xavi1000
Not fact but opinion. Given the level of violence this family was willing to commit, i doubt even police without guns would have been able to subdue this crew without receiving or dealing serious injury. A large unarmed metropolitan PD like London could have probably gotten enough officers on them to subdue without maiming or killing but the cop to crazy ratio was pretty even. I imagine the same result would happen if you were about to disarm a German Polize, French Gendarme, or Italian Carbineri.

This is apparently a fairly small department in a small town, and it ended up taking the entire shift to subdue them. State police barracks were 90 miles away and county sheriff's were in a city almost an hour away. I know it's hard for some Europeans to grasp the scale of the US, but there are counties in the western US that are comparable in size to the country of Belgium. This county in particular covers around 21,000 square km, roughly half the size off Belgium.

Show me a cop that close to losing control of his. lethal weapon anywhere in the world and I'll show you a soon to be dead suspect or cop.

edit on 12-4-2015 by jefwane because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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Oh you dont wanna seperate? We'll just all out brawl with you until someone ends up dead. Yeah they definitely approached that situation the way respectable law enforcement should have, honestly im disgusted with how many people think that was what needed to be done.
Thanks for the read and video OP!



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 05:18 PM
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The big guy and his opponent both didn't have the best striking technique, I think a lot of people could take all of those punches, especially while fueled with adrenaline.

The cops seemed really unorganized, I would expect a team of proffesional law enforcement to be able to contain that situation way earlier than these guys.

I feel they did the right thing in defending themselves because if they hadn't it sure looked like these people may have executed them, but in my opinion it looks like this whole thing could have turned out less tragic if the cops used a better strategy.

I'm not sure if they were looking for a fight or just caught up in something they weren't prepared for.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 05:20 PM
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originally posted by: xavi1000

In every country in EU this would be solved without murder.
FACT!


Honestly, I'm one of the biggest advocates against Americas trigger happy cops and there absolutely stupid relaxed gun laws, there's undoubtedly a direct correlation between the two. I mean, how ignorant can people be? They want the right to be able to buy guns with little restrictions, carry weapons in public and purchase semi-automatics from Walmart, then cry foul when some paranoid cop starts firing his gun off at anything that moves, lol. It makes no sense to me and I'm sure it makes no sense to anyone outside of the US.

But in this instance the cops did every possible thing in there power not to shoot these people. The only time a cop fired was after one of the brothers had taken one of the cops weapon and shot him in the leg. On top of that, the mother was standing in the middle of the brawl basically the whole time with her 11 year old daughter and never once tried to get her daughter to safety, nor did she ever try to convince the brothers to back down. The dad seemed like he was instigating the whole thing and imo was on a suicide mission. These brothers had probably taken a few good beatings from the dad, because they knew how to take one and just bounced back up like it was nothing, even after taking multiple hits from a baton. They were a tough bunch, to say the least.

Personally, I would have shot all these inbred religious fanatics,but these cops showed great restraint, except when they had there gun stolen from them. I really don't see how a European, or any other police force could have handled it any different.

Just watch this youtube video where they narrate the whole account. It just sums up how determined and physically strong these brothers actually were, its quite unbelievable.




posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Just watch this youtube video where they narrate the whole account. It just sums up how determined and physically strong these brothers actually were, its quite unbelievable.


Thanks for posting that though it will not matter.

That video pretty much tells the story and still the cop haters or criminals are never guilty group will still stomp their feet and rant about how they should have been handcuffed or why they didn't try and disarm them.

It doesn't matter at all what this lunatic family did , the same people that always blame the police will do just that.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa


Personally, I would have shot all these inbred religious fanatics,but these cops showed great restraint, except when they had there gun stolen from them. I really don't see how a European, or any other police force could have handled it any different.




Simples. In Europe, the police wouldn't have attacked the guy and slammed him into the ground. They would have spoken with them and asked what happened in the shop.

Also, in the civilized parts of Europe, the police don't carry guns, so even if some idiot assaulted the family, no one would have been killed.

I understand a lot of you guys are working as paid shills, so I'll ignore the unsubstantiated claims that the victims were criminals or religious fanatics or crazy or on drugs or inbred etc. etc.

Seriously, the apologists make people even more angry about the needless death. I hope I've at least explained how the Europeans would handle it. Ask them what happened. If there was some sort of evidence against them, take them to the station and ask more detailed questions. How hard is that?



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 07:33 PM
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a reply to: supermouse

Yeah OK, in other words you never even watched the youtube video?

btw, are you seriously accusing me of being a paid "shrill"? I wish someone was paying me to state fact or my opinion, I'm as broke as they come atm, lol. Don't even live in the US either, not to mention half my posts here are specifically being critical towards the police.

If I have any horse in this race, its my despise for parents who brainwash there kids with religious propaganda and indoctrinate them into there own little cult, which is exactly whats happened in this situation.

Seriously, just watch the youtube video I posted before you claim to have any idea about what your talking about! Then come back and tell me how easy it was ever going to be to take these people back to the station. These were not some soft European pussies that were ever going to go in quietly, these were 'hardcore' American fundamentalists dude!



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 10:49 PM
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edit on 12-4-2015 by one4all because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 11:12 PM
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a reply to: one4all

Hey man. Are you going to fix that post or not??? If not then just delete it cause it's a damn mess and impossible to read and if you can't learn to post things correctly then just don't post anything. Better nothing than that POS incomprehensible text all within one single quoted box.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 11:22 PM
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Holy hell what a tactical cluster fu@k that was!

There was definitely some inbred dum-dum strength with those boys. The huge one is on the ground screaming "why did you shoot him!?!? Murderers!!!" throughout the last several minutes and a woman is yelling "they're murdering my family."

Those people were jacked in the head and thought it would be a good idea to beat up and shoot some cops. The cops won.

Rule #1 when dealing with the police: don't try to fight the police... it will end badly. If people would follow that rule, these incidents wouldn't be all over the news. Feel free to fight in court after the fact but during the arrest, the police are always right.



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 11:43 PM
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@jeffwane

Your post oozes civil law enforcement propoganda.You began by initiating a verbal assault on me looking to begin an SOP process you quite obviously are familiar with, then you immediatly try to intentionally and over-dramaticlly distance yourself from every possible dynamic which could make you look like a civil law enforcement employee .

- human being goes into store after being INVITED IN by the open for business sign and has disagreement over transaction
- customer leaves store with what is in his opinion an adequte resolution to the disagreement
- store owner in a pre-meditated pre-prepared action sends pre-positioned or hired criminal to engage human being in verbal or physical confrontation on store owners property in defense of the trade goods or monetary value of such involved in civil disagreement
- Hired criminal gangsters working on behalf of store owner in defense of unsettled civil disagreement related material goods or value engage human beings with pre-planned criminal intentions and actions designed to precipitate situational dynamics which will enable the hired gangsters to ARTIFICIALLY ESCALATE THE CIVIL DISAGREEMENT between the human being and the store owner now being criminally represented by gangster criminals .....into a CRIMINAL INTERACTION BETWEEN SAID HIRED GANGSTERS and HUMAN BEING.
-Police who WOULD NOT respond to a civil disagreement do respond AT ESCALATED READINESS BASED ON AN ASSAULT complaint by hired gangsters representing store owner.........Police have a SOP complaintant and enter the dynamic with a pre-positioned perspective IMMEDIATLY AS PER SOP defining the human being et al accused as ALREADY BEING NON-COMPLIANT AND POTENTIALLY VIOLENT.Before the dispatcher is even done putting out the call the Police are in a lethal stage of mental readiness ,unbeknownst to them a criminally artificially esaclated one.
- Store owners criminal gangsters ensure they follow specific protocals BEFORE-DURING-and AFTER their call to Civil law enforcement based upon the alledged assault....they set up the dynamic by instigating in n environment where they as colleagues can say what they want and misrepresent as they wish self-validating ....then they in the presence of Civil employees engage the accused further intentionlly and artificilly re-nforcing to law enforcement that the accused is violent which triggers a higher stage of reaction from Police escalating the dynamic....then they make sure they collude in a sympathetic way with law enforcements storys covering up any crimes committed by the gangsters or police up to and including murder as we see frequently.

Simply watch the big obese store security guard in the video as he professionally manages this exact dynamic I described it is SOP for these types of criminals.......the police know the routine with store hired criminals and those from other store owners they collude with them every day..... especially the mentally unstable one who is out of control in his definitive desperation to fully support his collusionary role with the store owners gangsters.....the routine dynamics they both understand......the crazy cop knew he had to sink his teeth into the right person to fulfill his role.

Keep your eyes on the store hired gangster as he CONTINOUSLY FEEDS THE DYNAMIC FIRES artificilly and criminally ESCALATING THE SITUATION INTENTIONALLY....picking his spots with INTENTIONS as he is trained to do....in fact this hired gangster does more acts of criminal assault than any one else until the shooting begins....he constantly enters and re-enters the conflict looking to escalate it as quickly as he can to a terminal stage.The overweight instigator is the main player for the store owners part of the criminally collusional dynamic with the police.....and he knows his stuff well..........the psycho cop is the min player for the Police in the dynamic and as we see he ALSO plays his part pefectly overdramatising and looking to trigger points in the dynamic where things can via SOP be artificially and criminally ESCALATED......he refuses to consider ny lternatives at any time which deflect from or derail his AGENDA which is further reaching than any of those moments he should or could have used to stop himself from committing further and escalating criminal actions ,he was a "determined individual".

Now watch the OTHER COPS besides the maddog main player.....they ARE looking to settle things down...so is the other hired female gangster.....they are peripheral players dragged in by proxy of the Blue Line and the criminal relationships the hired gangsters have.

What is happening on the ground to this point is a member of a FAMILY RIGHTFULLY DEFENDING THEMSELVES FROM 100% CRIMINAL ACTIONS.........collusional criminl actions executed by hired gangsters and hired civil employees....the Family all should have been armed and they may not have lost a Family member.The later responding officers were obligated by law to intercede on the Familys behalf and to respond to multiple armed uniformed and non-uniformed assailants....which they failed to do.

The entire family had grounds to use lethal force to deny custody and submission to further criminal actions being rendered upon them which began with the store owners gangsters assault and looked to be escalating rapidly ,a response which under those circumstances they had every reason to expect long before we see the murder in the video.It is murder because the man wresteling on the ground was rightfully defending himself and his Family from real-time criminal actions begat by multiple aggressive armed assailants.....he was fighting for his and their lives against A CRIMINAL....or rather a GANG of criminals working together in stakeholder dynamic.... wether the Cop on the ground aknowledges it or not he is a criminal based upon his actions......which as I point out I believe can be proven to be patterned and collusional .


I watched the exact same collusionary criminal actions unfold in a sme-store parking lot in my City via news video.....this fat-boy even looks like the same guy....the hired gangster fraudulently representing himself as a security guard tried to in a pre-meditated action attempt to kill by a man by powerbombing a teenager he was in the process of attempting to assault on the concrete on his head.

These people should seek immediate legal council and soon...there is a defined pattern which can easily be taken out of EVERY COMMUNITY ACROSS THE COUNTRY.....because this collusionary criminal behaviour is RAMPANT.Police or CIVIL EMPLOYEES are hired to enforce criminal codes but collude to voluntarily accept dynmics which lead them to in an obvious criminal manner enforce civil property crimes so the rich and their money are given priority over human lives.

The man on the ground was rightfully defending himself and by my eye had rights to escalate to lethal action therefore the DEFENSIVE ACTIONS of retrieving the gun from an assailent and discharging it to again defend himself and his Family were NOT CRIMINAL.....this means the cop who later entered the dynamic COMMITTED MURDER .....he SHOULD have shot the maddog cop who was in the process of trying to commit a murder possibly multiple murders with co-conspirators on-scene and armed and also in uniform .

The other cops and the female gangster were willing to suppress the escalation....however the two main players were not prepared to let this happen under any circumstances.

Quite obviously the cop on the ground is not stable and is freaking out, something is wrong with him and his actions illustrate this.

Quite obviously the overweight hired gangster is not stable either and is freaking out,something is wrong with him and his actions illustrate this.

Both of these men are in a collusionary series of pre-planned and pre-meditated sequential patterned actions artificially escalating the dynamic situation to create sympathetic triggers which will allow them to follow SOP while atificially justifying this escalation of response up to and including SOP sanctioned murder.There is an over-riding agenda in play here.......one which is a chronic source of civil unrest all over many countries......this exact dynamic where civic employees paid to enforce criminal codes are HARNESSED by specific groups via peripheral pre-planned illegally indoctrinated legeslation to insead use their existing powers illeglly to become judge -jury-and executioner over civil disagreements and matters which society says must be determined outside of the criminal justice system.

You see this stuff is ruining our world....many Municipalitys create legeslation via civil By-Laws which BREACH FEDERAL LAWS intentionally......then they in a criminally catalysed action by proxy force Municipal Police departments to override Federal laws to as a PRIORITY enforce Civil By-Laws.

I just read a story about 2 cops killed by a man who was simply walking on a street with his gun in 100% federally legeslated legal way....with no criminal intentions .....he had no car.....but artificially contrived Municipal By-laws were actioned by a person who simply saw him in public with a gun and panicked....Police responded in an artificially escalated state and in the process of ENFORCING MUNICIPAL BY-LAWS OVER AND ABOVE FEDERAL LAWS entered the dynamic using SOP levels of force,they due to SOP situational response protocols drew their weapons on the man who responded in kind defending himself killing several officers in this process.I advise the families of the fallen offices to sue the municipality because that is who catalysed the deaths via the collusionally intended and catalysed Municipal By-Law legeslation which in a criminally misrepresentative manner tiggers Police to supecede federal laws......further to this there exists much documented proof that Prosecutors will NOT pursue these By-Law enforcements in court EVER because they know the Federal laws supercede the municipal By-laws....by dropping the By-law charges via decision to not pursue AFTER THE FACT they make it impossible to connect the dots.This poor guy had the By-law enforcement dropped but ended up being charged with multiple murders wrongfully because he couldnt show adequate cause for self-defense.

This message has been peripherally supported by WCBs SOP which has gifted me the 2 things which most support sharing of ideas....time and poverty.There is nothing like a good dose of WCB motivation to help one join the constant-learner group in the world........no one supports the Global Disclosure movement more than WCB.

This Store owner/hired gangster/civic law enforcement stakeholder method of creating and supporting civil unrest nation-wide we see actioned here in a patterned and sequential way is tantmount to domestic terrorism according to some interpretations of existing legeslations.

Yes the family refused to comply,yes the officers first on scene were misguided,yes the officers later on scene were also fatally underinfomed and misguided ,yes the entire dynamic was tragic....but NO my friends IT WAS NOT UNAVOIDBLE OR LAWFULL IN ANY DISCERNABLE WAYS it was in fact an intentionlly catalysed managed dynamic, planned and executed by hired criminal representatives of the store owner and supported wrongly by first responding Law Enforcement which culminated via later responding law enforcement actions in the unlawfull death of an innocent man and the traumatisation of a huge number of people.


Start asking for 200 million.....there are LOTS of victims like this family out there more will pop up quickly and the patterns will expose themselves on much grander scale ....with the economy so down and out lawyers are starving to and no one small has the bucks to feed the legal monster except for the mega-giant corporations....its feeding time now on these gigantic money sources.This store has been nice enough to bring its special brand of crime to multiple countries and jurisdictions making it much easier to find a sympathetic place to begin....a fiscally weaker Municipality will also be easier to work with in the long run in terms of defining a National or in this case INTERNATIONAL pattern.

For you Civil Employees involved in law enforcement who dont like what I say..........you are the problem.....when you know very well you are being pimped out by business owners and Municipalitys to commit crimes by knowingly subverting federal laws in support of lesser municipl by-laws....you become criminals when you suspect what the security guards are doing in passing the civil dynamic to you in an artificilly contrived criminal format....remember as soon as you SUSPECT this dynamic you MUST STOP IT........you MUST FORCE THE BUSINESS OWNERS TO USE CIVIL METHODS TO SOLVE THEIR DISPUTES......so they have to issue club cards and have memberships big deal.


Next time put the cuffs on the security guard first fellas...especially if you are in law enforcement and have read this. Proof of fore-knowledge is the basis of most culpability dynamics right?Now you know
edit on 12-4-2015 by one4all because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2015 @ 11:43 PM
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The whole family is mentally ill. I thought I might see the short bus in the background somewhere. I don't think jail is going to fix their problem but at least they won't hurt anyone else for a while.


(post by Answer removed for a manners violation)

posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 12:07 AM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: xavi1000

In every country in EU this would be solved without murder.
FACT!


Honestly, I'm one of the biggest advocates against Americas trigger happy cops and there absolutely stupid relaxed gun laws, there's undoubtedly a direct correlation between the two. I mean, how ignorant can people be? They want the right to be able to buy guns with little restrictions, carry weapons in public and purchase semi-automatics from Walmart, then cry foul when some paranoid cop starts firing his gun off at anything that moves, lol. It makes no sense to me and I'm sure it makes no sense to anyone outside of the US.

But in this instance the cops did every possible thing in there power not to shoot these people. The only time a cop fired was after one of the brothers had taken one of the cops weapon and shot him in the leg. On top of that, the mother was standing in the middle of the brawl basically the whole time with her 11 year old daughter and never once tried to get her daughter to safety, nor did she ever try to convince the brothers to back down. The dad seemed like he was instigating the whole thing and imo was on a suicide mission. These brothers had probably taken a few good beatings from the dad, because they knew how to take one and just bounced back up like it was nothing, even after taking multiple hits from a baton. They were a tough bunch, to say the least.

Personally, I would have shot all these inbred religious fanatics,but these cops showed great restraint, except when they had there gun stolen from them. I really don't see how a European, or any other police force could have handled it any different.

Just watch this youtube video where they narrate the whole account. It just sums up how determined and physically strong these brothers actually were, its quite unbelievable.



Just finished (wasted) my time watching that video. I was hoping that it would shed some new light on the situation and offer another POV that would clearly show the justification of the force used by the police initially. Of course we hear the other cameras didn't work and that this Chief can only talk about the video because DPS is investigating...convenient.

Also, when he is narrating the play by play, he misses so many key points. When his own officer kicks the officer who shot himself in the leg, he says that he kicked the 'brother' twice. It was clearly audible and visible that he kicked him square in the mug.

He gives the family powers of incredible strength instead of admitting that he has a piss poor set of boys out there playing cowboys of the Wild West.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 12:24 AM
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a reply to: one4all

The fail is strong with you. No one should feed the trolls, but one so verbose deserves just a bit of a treat.

First, I'll defend against the accusation of being a LEO. I briefly thought about persuing the profession after I got out of the Army. I decided other wise when I determined that it would be both difficult and hypocrytical given the current state of laws, in the same county I grew up in. I know about ROE from my time in the Army and Guard, so I feel qualified to comment on stuff like that. I've been on both sides of a civil disturbance ( riot if you prefer) on the LEO side during a G-8 summit and on the raising hell side during a couple of music festivals that got a little rowdy. I've had a couple of rides in the back and spent a couple of nights in jail during my lifetime. I'm not proud of it, but I'm comfortable with living with the mistakes I've made. I'm no Saint and I don't expect police to be, I do however expect them to be well trained and disciplined in the use of force. The only reason you might mistake my posting as being from someone intimately involved in Law Enforcement is that I have this amazing ability to use this tool called Google, look at various inputs and formulate my own opinion.

I'm not aware of any jurisdiction in the US where shoplifting won't get you at least a summons if not a night in jail and posting bail, but as far as I'm aware there isn't a single source stating that the family was suspected of shoplifting. From all reports, at least on of them assaulted an employee before the encounter, hence the police showing up. Breaches of the peace is and should be the primary job of Law Enforcement.

It's quite obvious you're no lawyer, my guess would be that you've been unduly influenced by either Sovereign Citizen or Freeman trains of thought. I understand wanting to believe that crap, I really do, but there is nothing there.

Regardless of what happened before the first punch was thrown or even who did it, this fight obviously denigrated into a life or death struggle pretty damn quickly. It looked to me like someone in the family either pushed or punched a cop before things went bat feces, I really can't fault the cops.

As far as being a shill for the police. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You can look at my post history and see my thoughts on recent LEO shootings and incidents.

Trayvon Martin: I came down on the side of Zimmermanat the time but given his actions since I think it's probably a case of two idiots running up on each other in the dark.

Eric Dorner: Bad dude, but was on the verge of entering the American Mythology in the same ways that Jesse James and Bonnie and Clyde did.

Mike Brown: I didn't believe the cops story and though the DA was acting more like a defense attorney than a Prosecutor.

Eric Garner: Looked like a crime to me, especially with chokeholdes being illegal for NYPD. Once again DA not bring the weight of his office against an obvious criminal act.

Walter Scott: Looked like murder to me. I know that some form of manslaughter is most likely, but damn you'd think a South Carolina DA would be less likely than a NY DA to indict an officer, but that's not the case.

Your views on the legalities of the incident are at the very best laughable.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 12:29 AM
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a reply to: Domo1

I am not reading the entire thread before posting, because I want to share my thoughts without influence from others first. So, there could be observations that have already been made.

Alright. I watched the video first, without reading anything other than the thread title, to see what impressions I got. Mixed, and nothing good. Here they go, in no articular order.

1. This got out of hand fast, and it seemed that the police were all too willing to turn to violence, before even trying to talk to the people.

2. The only talk I heard before the brawl started was from what didn't look like a cop, and what I assume, from reading later, was a Walmart employee, who seems to be telling the cops that they "need to" separate these people and talk to them. Do Walmart employees get to tell the police what to do now? Didn't look like a uniform to me.

3. The same fellow, I think, also appears to be fighting the people, for no apparent reason. I wonder if he's charged with anything?

4. You can't see, in the video, whether the man who was killed is holding a gun or not. There is a struggle, yes, with him seeming to be on the ground, facing up, and the cop over him. There is a shot, but you can't see who is holding the gun. As far as I can tell from that video, full screen, the cop could as easily have shot himself in the leg, while trying to shoot the man on the ground, who was maybe trying to defend himself from being shot. Then the other cop comes up and starts hitting, then shoots, apparently fatally.

5. The initial fighting seems to have started after the cops start looking like they are trying to physically push the people around, without single audible word to "come over here, please", or anything like that. ONLY the comment from the guy NOT in a police uniform can be heard, stating that they "need to separate" the people, can be heard. So the police just start shoving, no discussion, and people aren't allowed to react? The cops can push us around, and we can't say or do anything in defense? No wonder the one guy called then Nazis. Being the police doesn't mean you can do whatever, to whomever, you want. Some simple discussion, talking, could have resolved this whole situation.

6. Who is the woman with the radio, that pops in, looks around, and walks off talking into it? Is she the employee that claims to have been "assaulted"? Whether it's her or another employee, where is the video of the woman and several family members entering the same restroom? They should not have any from inside the restroom, but they certainly should from outside it! Let's see that. Let's see if the accusation is even possible.

7. If these people were so ready to become violent, why weren't they beating up the lone Walmart guy that was there, before the cops came onto the scene? Violent people would have been. That would have been reason for the cops to come out swinging, maybe. "No, I don't want to be separated from my family", and hand gestures to back off, are not. (quote might not be exact)

8. This is a big one. Where is the rest of the dashcam video? In this one -


the action is mainly centered around the van we presume belongs to the family. At around the 5:35 mark, some of the participants go off screen to the left. At about 8:35, the cop car (dashcam video) moves off toward the left, presumably toward that action, but then the video goes blank, and remains so, even though it's almost 15 minutes long. Whether that length matches what was recorded, we can't know, but certainly there was video after that, of whatever was going on off screen that we couldn't see before. Where is that video? When was the second family member shot?

I did some looking for more on this story, because the escalation of violence was so horrible. This link - h ere - has details of what the cops claim happened. In that, we are told two family members were shot. Another video states the second was shot int he stomach, and is now in jail. When and where in all this was he shot? Why was he shot? The reason given for the fatal shooting is that the man allegedly took one officer's gun, and shot him in the leg. So why was another man shot in the stomach? I didn't see that in the video. I couldn't see who held the gun that shot the cop in the leg, as stated above. The man could have, or the cop could have. We can't see that in the video, at least not with the quality we have from online.

There there is this link, with video - here

In the video, several people that work in the area talk about how nice and peaceful this family was, and some even state they can't believe they would be so violent. From the police video, it really looks as though the cops just started pushing people, and the people reacted to defend themselves. Now, we can argue about that, and the claim can be made that fighting the police won't go well, and indeed, perhaps it won't. Yet, does this mean we simply surrender our rights? Can a Walmart employee make an accusation, and then the police assume guilt, and treat anyone accused as an automatic criminal? Maybe all they did was use the restroom, and the Walmart people didn't like it. Maybe they did "assault" someone. Maybe we should be told what manner of "assault" was claimed to have occurred. Were there injuries? Medical treatment? And where is the in-store video? The parking lot video, for that matter, showing everything that occurred before and after the police arrived. Walmart records everything, inside and out. They have the footage. If all they claim is true, let's see it. Until I do, I can't accept as true anything they claim. Innocent until proven guilty is a good policy, and vital for a free nation and people. VITAL. Finally, and this is in that video in the last link,, I believe, it's stated one charge against the family is :hindering a prosecution". WHAT?!?!?!?!? Since when do the police prosecute?? An arrest, I could see. A prosecution, though? What fresh hell is this?

One more note. I read a lot of stories about crimes, and see a lot of mug shots, when the media shares them. Most criminals accused of violence have a look in their eyes, a violent look. None of these people do. They looked shocked, and wounded, but not at all violent.

I don't think we have a complete or accurate picture of all that occurred in this case. At the least, we need to withhold judgment till we have all of the facts, and not just one side. This video doesn't show everything.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 12:40 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I'm more than a bit concerned about lack of dashcams from other perspedtives, particularly from the SUV cop car that would have caught what happened behind the Suburban. I concede there is a good chance that we are missing some important parts of the fight. However, going only what I see given how this went from a normal police interaction to bedlam rather quickly I'm more inclined than normal to give the LEOs the benefit of the doubt. Given what I saw, if the Wal-mart guy hadn't have been so active there would have been more seriously injured or dead including cops.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 01:22 AM
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originally posted by: jefwane
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I'm more than a bit concerned about lack of dashcams from other perspedtives, particularly from the SUV cop car that would have caught what happened behind the Suburban. I concede there is a good chance that we are missing some important parts of the fight. However, going only what I see given how this went from a normal police interaction to bedlam rather quickly I'm more inclined than normal to give the LEOs the benefit of the doubt. Given what I saw, if the Wal-mart guy hadn't have been so active there would have been more seriously injured or dead including cops.


I am even more concerned after learning that some dashcams were supposedly "non-functional". I didn't know that when I first posted. I also flat out don't believe it. I suspect they are far from honest on that one. It's too convenient, that all we have is video that doesn't completely implicate them. It's clear we are missing a lot. Walmart would have video as well; every one I have ever seen, in many states, has the parking lot loaded with cameras, filming from all angles. I'd almost bet money that all the video pertaining to this was "lost", or the cameras in question were also "not functioning" that night.

I wish I could give the LEOs the benefit of the doubt, and I have in other cases. I try to be fair. Here, though, after watching the video several times, I see the cops and the Walmart guy instigating the violence, and the family defending themselves and one another as best they can. Based on the comments from people that encountered them before this incident,t hey were friendly and nice people, not at all violent. I have seen and spoken to homeless folk, and seen the same sort of niceness. Being poor and in the middle of hard times doesn't make someone a criminal. IF the one guy really did grab the gun, and NOT to defend himself from the cop shooting him, I could see action being taken, but that is far from clear in the video. I looked several times, and I can't see anything in his hands. It's dark, and the video quality isn't the best, so I can't say for certain, but I also can't say I see him take the cop's gun and shoot him. All we have there is the testimony of the cops. We need the videos they claim don't exist.

The rest of this is to the thread in general, not you.

I see it took no time at all for the Christian bashing to begin. In this thread, these people have been labeled as (and I might have missed a few) -

religious fanatics
inbred religious fanatics
religious nuts
religious extremists
cultists
rednecks
idiots
meth addicts (no drug charges or accusations have been made)
typical hillbilly southerner (never mind that they are from Idaho.....)
spoiled rotten brats
animals
crazy
lunatic family
brainwashed
fundamentalists
mentally ill

They were also compared to Muslim terrorists. Yeah, because defending yourself and tour family means yo are the same as people that behead those they don't like, stone people, blow up buildings, etc, etc, etc.

Nice job. How many of you would have defended the family had the "Christian" label not been there? I'd bet most would be on there side, of those of you that attack them now. Be honest.

to iamnotanother - I'd send you applause of I was a mod, for the voice of reason, and for logical and fair responses through the thread. , anyway, and
. Stars for your posts.

A few others have been more fair and reasonable, even a few that want to believe the cops. Thanks to all of you. Disagreeing on what we see is possible without the bashing and bigotry we see from some. You know who you are, in both cases.

When your family is confronted by the police, on the word of a Walmart employee, and you come under physical attack, you, our wife, your children, your sisters and brothers, your parents. what will you do? Take a beating and do nothing? Submit to being cuffed for no reason? Ordered around and detailed with NO evidence, since the cops had NOTHING but the word of the Walmart people, since they had no time to review any evidence? If they beat you, knock you down, kick you, and pull a gun to shoot you, will you lie there and die? If your family members are being treated the same way, will you do nothing?

But, hey, they were Christians, so whatever happened, they must have deserved it, right? How many of you defended Rodney King, after viewing an abbreviated video? He was actually very violent, did throw the first punches, and many, MANY more after that, which the entire video showed. I saw that ONCE, when ONE news outlet where I lived at the time showed it. The abbreviated version we all saw over and over was far from the complete picture. Those cops were int he right. Here? Not even close. So, who defended King, and blames this family?

There was a time when most of ATS was better than this. I am glad to see some still are. The rest of you, if/when your day comes, let's see what tune you sing. I used to think most cops were alright, and the bad ones were the exceptions. More and more, I see it the other way around. I wish I didn't. Many of my mom's friends were cops, and they were good guys. Many cops still are. A lot, though, and the number is growing, are thugs in uniform, using more and more restrictive laws to enslave the people.

So, hate all you want, because the victims here are Christian, but remember, whatever group you belong to is just as vulnerable.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 01:40 AM
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It is tragic but the the officer had no choice if he see someone going for another officer weapon. Justified use of force in my opinion.



posted on Apr, 13 2015 @ 01:55 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The whole thing would make a perfect civilian training video of exactly what not to do if you feel you've been wrongly accused of a crime and you think the police are being heavy handed.

You remain calm and polite and tape everything, then get the name and badge number of the police. You do not become aggressive and rant and yell, you also most certainly do not punch one of the police in the throat (you can't see the punch in the video, but you do see the cop get knocked back), that's where the family lost any credibility and someone was definitely going to jail, no matter what happened prior.

You do not wrestle the police on the ground and try to rip at there face and unless you're looking for a close range bullet to the head, you do not ever under any circumstances fight the coppers for there weapon.

btw, so what if people are so called religion bashing? imo, there's only two things that could possibly make people act that irrationally, very powerful stimulants, or hardcore religious beliefs. Don't mistake yourself by thinking its just Islam that causes people to lose there s# .




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