Video of fatal police shooting involving Idaho family in WalMart parking lot

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Wasn't exactly Ali v's Liston..Anyway, Do the Cops in the US not know how to separate a group, contain and evaluate the situation without the need for violence, as far as i could see they just steamed in.

I didn't see that.
I saw the cops arrive, then within seconds the punches started to fly, from the family.

I am one of the most critical of the police on here, but this is pretty clear from my perspective. They arrived, immediately tried to peacefully split up the family to both gather information and reduce the chances of confrontation, and the father kicked off, his kids then followed.

The police used every non-lethal method they could to stop the attack on them. There is only so much that can be done before you have no choice but to escalate your defense to lethal force. I fully believe that lethal force should be an option - especially in the US where the public is also armed. This family had PLENTY of warnings to stop. They refused to do so and they continued to attack the officers who were only there to find out what happened and decide on any action to take.

The most stupid part of this is that none of it was necessary. The most that would have happened is one of the kids might be charged with assault, probably get a fine, a warning, and then they would all be on their merry cult-like way. Instead, their idiocy has led to the death of one of their family, an injury of another, two cops being injured and likely prison time for several of them.

These fundies aren't exactly known for their common sense or intelligence, but this just takes the cake.

I agree, sometimes cops are in the right. Sometimes citizens are being crazy, and cops have no choice but to use some kind of force.

We shouldn't diminish the credibility of our criticism of real police excesses by always blaming police in every situation. This will do nothing but push both police and their supporters away.

originally posted by: imnotanother
a reply to: opethPA

Where is that proof? Why did Walmart employees follow the people to their van? Why was an unarmed man shot by an armed officer?

Do I hate cops? No.

Do I despise people who think they have the right murder others because of a shin piece of tin? Of course. I'm sane.

I am not usually pro-police nor do I usually take the side of them in such situations, but that family was really violent. Not only that, did you read the claim that they went for the officers' guns? It's hard to see in the melee, so I'm not sure yet. But, it can probably be seen by a photo/video specialist.

If you go for a police officer's weapon, it does allow for lethal force. Also, didn't the police officers try non-lethal force first?

Is this the one that happened last month? There's a thread on it here www.abovetopsecret.com... but it had no video. This is crazy. Those people were nuts. It's like a switch was flipped and all the insanity poured out or something.

Another news day in America.

I'm kinda numb and no longer surprised by the stupidity over there.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: imnotanother
a reply to: opethPA

Where is that proof? Why did Walmart employees follow the people to their van? Why was an unarmed man shot by an armed officer?

Do I hate cops? No.

Do I despise people who think they have the right murder others because of a shin piece of tin? Of course. I'm sane.

I am not usually pro-police nor do I usually take the side of them in such situations, but that family was really violent. Not only that, did you read the claim that they went for the officers' guns? It's hard to see in the melee, so I'm not sure yet. But, it can probably be seen by a photo/video specialist.

If you go for a police officer's weapon, it does allow for lethal force. Also, didn't the police officers try non-lethal force first?

You are correct. They used force. First non lethal then lethal.
In the video, 2 officers are at the scene. One is circling the group, as soon as the 2 other officers arrive, he tackles the person in the middle of the group. The bald officer makes a fast movement that moves the tan man so he throws a punch, because he saw the first officer assault his family member.

Then hell breaks loose. And extremely bad police work. Sad display. And there was obvious stomping going on behind the car.

a reply to: Bone75

Sure didn't look like it to me. Where I come from when police say stop fighting you stop fighting and get on the ground. But hey maybe its different in your neck of the woods. That big boy who you say was helping sure cause them to waste a boat load of pepper spray too. I think you may be confused as to who I mean. He had the lighter color shirt on and stood toe to toe with the other civilian by the back of the vehicle in the beginning.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

It is very clear they WANTED a fight and confrontation with the police, not once did the family (mother? with a kid) move out, in fact the opposite, she moved into the MIDDLE of it.

a reply to: imnotanother

The cop who went for the first tackle got pushed first, its as clear as day. Seriously, it could of been such a simple issue. But these crazy religious nuts wanted there little end of days revelation and one of them got it.

With all the BS injustices cops do to people, why would anyone waste time worrying about this incident, when the only thing the police did wrong was totally underestimate how crazy these religious nuts were.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: imnotanother

The cop who went for the first tackle got pushed first, its as clear as day. Seriously, it could of been such a simple issue. But these crazy religious nuts wanted there little end of days revelation and one of them got it.

With all the BS injustices cops do to people, why would anyone waste time worrying about this incident, when the only thing the police did wrong was totally underestimate how crazy these religious nuts were.

I don't believe it is clear as day. I do not see the bearded guy with a coat push the officer but I do see the officer take him down with a headlock and his head hits the pavement. I see at the same instance, the closest officer tackle the kid who wasn't assaulting him, I see the other officer trying to throw punches with the tan coat instead of using his trained tactics. And when the officer executes the guy on the ground, he walks around peoples, cocks the gun, and points it at the head.

And calling the family religious nuts is just the way media always smears a group in this situation. Maybe it was a family being accused of something and being circled by armed men, who once they had bigger numbers, attacked the unarmed family.

Who defends this kind of behavior from people who are paid by your tax dollars?

This sums it up.

a reply to: imnotanother

They were under suspicion for an assault, then refused to allow the police to investigate it and became violent. Anyone with an IQ over 80 knows your getting your face slammed into the concrete for that. Its not rocket science, were the police supposed to just let them go?

I'm the first one to be calling for the police to be fried when they abuse there power, but that's not what happened here. Just a violent religious extremist family with a death wish.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: imnotanother

They were under suspicion for an assault, then refused to allow the police to investigate it and became violent. Anyone with an IQ over 80 knows your getting your face slammed into the concrete for that. Its not rocket science, were the police supposed to just let them go?

I'm the first one to be calling for the police to be fried when they abuse there power, but that's not what happened here. Just a violent religious extremist family with a death wish.

I am not sure they had a death wish or can I tell that they are religious extremist...they were violent. That was obvious but was it instigated by the family, the police, or the walmart employees?

I am not sure why WalMart employees followed them to the parking lot. That is against their handbook and LP officers are not allowed to pursue a suspect out of the store for shoplifting. They must call the police.
The walmart employee should be charged with assault as well, he did not help calm the situation and has no authority to do so.
The officers were beyond aggressive. They have handcuffs, slap them on the guys instead of hitting their heads with batons, shooting them with tasers, pepper spraying the whole group (cops included), and then shooting 2 of them. Only to go on for 4 more minutes beyond the car, yet you still see officers kicking and stomping someone on the ground while you hear people crying, screaming in agony, and calling the police murderers as one lays dead and another bleeding in the stomach.

It is convenient that the SUV police car didn't have a dash cam and the other car's dashcam didn't work either. That makes me suspicious of what really happened from those POV.

How does it feel to look into the future of America?

Religious zealotry will increase as the "end times" cults increase their numbers and become more vocal and demonstrative in their extremism.

As ISIS seems attractive to some young people; Fanatical Christianity will also attract those lost and seeking easy answers.

Strange times are coming....Sadly it will be punctuated by incidences like in the video, only more extreme and deadly.

Culturally as a populace becomes more afraid and confused about the future, they become more aggressive and violent.

This is just the tip of the iceberg....

Classic Malthusian theory....

They (the family) sound a little nuts. But, in this day and age, who knows?

What I don't understand is how it went from an employee allegedly being shoved to pepper spray, then tasers and guns.

One dead, two injured and several facing charges. Wonder if there is additional video out there?

a reply to: Domo1

Worst nightmare for a cop. A bunch of crazy people fighting for your gun....I cant even imagine what you would think in a moment like that. You look and see your other officers fighting with several other people, and then you look up after you've been over powered and see a bunch of hands reaching for your gun.

Jesus....

Why do US cops feel so empowered to give orders to people to Willy-nilly with zero information. I have been approached by police while in a crowd many times and they always come in with questions and a calm demeanor. But this is Canada.

We are not born into police servitude. Some people believe - and I know this sounds crazy - that if you are not committing a crime, you are not to be detaine. If you the police have grounds for arrest then that is what they should do but grabbing people physically to get information?...

I know where I came from in the peace river region, police would not dare grab at someone unless they were marking an arrest. We are not rag dolls for police to do what they feel.

Edit to add:

The article stated that the 2 brothers "battled the officer for his gun".

Hmm. Due to the sheer balls of this family I would have to give it 50/50 that either the boys were going for the gun like the article states OR the officer was going for the gun while on the ground being over powered and THEN the scramble for the gun occurred.

Going for a gun in the of a grappling match? How smart is that? I have no knowledge of police training so maybe someone else here might know...

What is the rule for your side arm while wrestling with a suspect? I hope it is "don't touch it!" "Don't draw attention to it"

UK police seem much more safe than US and even here in Canada.

a reply to: RickyD

You must be talking about the guy who took his coat off before getting his butt kicked by the big boy. That guy was definitely on something. He did manage to punch Bubba in the throat though. He also got tased and smacked the back of his head on the pavement in the process, then bounced right back up like nothing happened lol.

I'm just wondering why none of the cops even attempted to put anyone in handcuffs.

What a bunch of stupid redneck idiots... And I dont mean the cops.

This was clearly the familiy's own doing, and the world is probably a better place now.

Why the hell would you for any reason at all resist being seperated? Its not like ita a huge blow to your rights....

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Don't really want to be accused of being anti-police or anti-american here, but if you watch the video carefully those 3 coppers do kind of go in there like cowboys.


Not accusing you of that, some of our police is way out of control.

I have been accused of both often, and usually just laugh that off.

The cops are used to people following the results of the milgram experiment
and being obedient sheep.

These people were not sheep by a long shot,
but they did handle it poorly.

Dad trained them enough to get them killed as one
poster said.

If the cops had been trained in some non-lethal martial arts
this would have ended with no one shot, and VERY quickly.

Once the family member said they would not be separated,
they should have tried to talk to them as a group at that point,
and had the patriarch or matriarch do the speaking.

The walmart employee getting pushed to the floor is what
made the incident occur as far as I can tell.

I am sure it was on video, the video would have been the
primary case evidence not someones version of the truth.

a reply to: Domo1

Oh, wow, absolutely horrible what happened! The police did a great job. The whole family seems to be idiots. They don't pay the police enough.

It's scary what some of these religious nuts do.