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originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: Gryphon66
You can even use only the bible to see the Paul doctrine vs Gospel message to see that there is a difference even in the bible to what Yeshua taught and what Paul taught.
He does talk like a anointed one so I have no reason to not believe Yeshua was an "anointed one". And I am saying he is not the only one. Pauls version called Jesus is another story.
originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: ElectricUniverse
In 36 CE, the governor of Judaea, Pontius Pilate, was confronted with a serious rebellion in Samaria.
For a man who made light of mendacity and in all his designs catered to the mob, rallied them, bidding them go in a body with him to Mount Gerizim, which in their belief is the most sacred of mountains. He assured them that on their arrival he would show them the sacred vessels which were buried there, where Moses had deposited them. His hearers, viewing this tale as plausible, appeared in arms. They posted themselves in a certain village named Tirathana, and, as they planned to climb the mountain in a great multitude, they welcomed to their ranks the new arrivals who kept coming. But before they could ascend, Pilate blocked their projected route up the mountain with a detachment of cavalry and heavily armed infantry, who in an encounter with the first comers in the village slew some in a pitched battle and put the others to flight. Many prisoners were taken, of whom Pilate put to death the principal leaders and those who were most influential among the fugitives.
[Flavius Josephus, Jewish Antiquities 18.85-87]
Show proof that there were 42 Christus
What is Serapis? (Origin of JESUS CHRIST)
Ptolemy’s rule was to create a deity that would be worshipped by both the Egyptians and the Greeks. He created “Serapis “, the made up Graeco-Egyptian god that was invented in the 3rd century B.C., portrayed as Greek in appearance, but with Egyptian accessories, representing both wealth and resurrection.
“Egypt, which you commended to me my dearest Servianus, I have found to be wholly fickle and inconsistent and continually wafted about by every breath of fame. The worshippers of Serapis here are called Christians and those who are devoted to the god Serapis (I find) call themselves Bishops of Christ. Hadrian to Servianus 134 AD.”
If modern believers were truly sincere in their desire for a more intimate relationship with the Lord, they would immediately want to know and question why "early believers avoided" using the name Christian? When it is realized that even the very name Christian was in use prior to the time of Jesus, we truly begin to grasp the Pagan connection. The name Christian was a term employed to describe one who was an initiate, and understood the inner meaning of the Greek and Roman mystery religions.
Why claim there is no record when I excerpted non-Christian records from the first century that do mention Christ (Jesus) did exist, and was executed under order of Pontius Pilate?
"Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. 24"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
If there had been proof that he wasn't real, the non-Christian Romans would have used that as evidence against Christianity, but they didn't.
For example, the Roman historian and Senator Tacitus mentions the "execution of Christ" (Christus) as the beginning of Christianity, which he wrote in the "Annals" on book 15 chapter 44. This work was published in 116 AD, and is considered by historians as authentic and a non-Christian Roman source that verifies that Jesus was executed by Pontius Pilate.en.wikipedia.org...
... The Annals passage (15.44), which has been subjected to much scholarly analysis, follows a description of the six-day Great Fire of Rome that burned much of Rome in July 64 AD. The key part of the passage reads as follows (translation from Latin by A. J. Church and W. J. Brodribb, 1876): "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind". (In Latin: ergo abolendo rumori Nero subdidit reos et quaesitissimis poenis adfecit, quos per flagitia invisos vulgus Chrestianos appellabat. auctor nominis eius Christus Tibero imperitante per procuratorem Pontium Pilatum supplicio adfectus erat; repressaque in praesens exitiablilis superstitio rursum erumpebat, non modo per Iudaeam, originem eius mali, sed per urbem etiam, quo cuncta undique atrocia aut pudenda confluunt celebranturque. igitur primum correpti qui fatebantur, deinde indicio eorum multitudo ingens haud proinde in crimine incendii quam odio humani generis convicti sunt.) ...
Yeshua is the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Joshua.” Iesous is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Jesus.” Thus, the names “Joshua” and “Jesus” are essentially the same; both are English pronunciations of the Hebrew and Greek names for our Lord. (For examples of how the two names are interchangeable, see Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 in the KJV. In both cases, the word Jesus refers to the Old Testament character Joshua.)
originally posted by: Agartha
My reply to you:
That passage by Tacitus is considered by historians / experts a hoax. Tacitus wrote about the vast multitudes of Christians that started the fire in Rome in 64AD. Well, I have news for you: in 64 CE there were no multitudes of Christians in Rome, there were not even multitudes of Christians in Judea, in fact the name Christians was not adopted until the following century.
Another big error which shows the passage was added centuries later is the fact that Tacitus was an imperial writer, he would have never called Jesus 'Christ' but by his full name.
Also, Pilate was a PREFECT, not a procurator, Tacitus of all people would have never ever made that mistake!! So Tacitus is not proof of the historical figure of Jesus.
Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source. Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus. However, Richard Carrier has suggested that the 'Christ, the author of this name, was executed by the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius' line is a Christian interpolation.
Historian Ronald Mellor has stated that the Annals is "Tacitus's crowning achievement" which represents the "pinnacle of Roman historical writing". Scholars view it as establishing three separate facts about Rome around AD 60: (i) that there were a sizable number of Christians in Rome at the time, (ii) that it was possible to distinguish between Christians and Jews in Rome, and (iii) that at the time pagans made a connection between Christianity in Rome and its origin in Roman Judea. These facts however are so narrowly established (see Other Roman Sources below) that they are subject to much scrutiny, like reports of Pilate's rank or the spelling of key words or Tacitus' actual sources.
Prefect of Judea
In 26 A.D. the Roman Emperor Tiberius appointed Pontius Pilate prefect of the Roman provinces of Judaea, Samaria and Idumæa, although Pilate is best known for his leadership of Judaea. While the typical term for a Roman prefect was 1–3 years, Pilate was to hold his post as the fifth Roman procurator for 10 years. In assuming his position, Pontius Pilate succeeded Valerius Gratus.
Though by definition the procurators were prefects,...
The "intigation of Chrestus" that Suetonius mentioned could not refer to anyone else but Jesus the Christ, because Christ was the reason why Christianity became so widespread.
Suetonius just mispelled the name.
The pagan Romans had disdain for Christ