Is there evidence that Jesus Christ existed? Yes, there is.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Doesn't make him "God."

Makes him some guy that a bunch of people thought was worthwhile to listen to.
"Anointed one".
Whatever.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You really are having trouble following along, aren't you?

a reply to: DeadSeraph

You really are having trouble following along, aren't you?

lol!!!

You mean, like sheep are expected to follow their 'shepherd' home to the
stinky sheep-shack to await slaughter for no reason?

Yep.
I have big-time trouble 'following along' with that..
Thanks for noticing.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: windword

How many times have you posted this exact thing on ATS? I'm just curious. Do you have some sort of template saved, so that you can keep regurgitating it no matter how many times it is refuted?

Can you debunk it?

Nope. Every time I post it, I have to go searching for this stuff all over again. This time, though, I just needed to check my "posts in thread" to find it!

How many times does it get ignored? How many times are you guys going to keep repeating the same old tired and debunked rhetoric, calling it proof? How many times is the OP and you guys going to declare that you've debunked Christ mythicists?

Musical Interlude:

Just - think about it.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You know what, though? It takes the average person at least five times of hearing a message before they comprehend it. Most people do not absorb or comprehend what is said to them before it's been presented at least five times.

Okay lets try that and see how it works'

Jesus was real
Jesus was real
Jesus was real
Jesus was real
Jesus was real
And one more for good measure Jesus was real.

And now for the results ----------------

a reply to: Seede

Oh, see, I comprehend WHAT you are saying.
But, that does NOT mean I believe it. Nope.
Sorry.

Because evidence. None. You can say it every second until you drop dead, but that still doesn't make it true.

Like this:
Only Christians go to heaven
Only Christians go to heaven
Only Christians go to heaven
Only Christians go to heaven
Only Christians go to heaven.
Wrong.

Or this:
Allahu Akbar x 5
Wrong again

Or this:
Atheists have no morals
Atheists have no morals
Atheists have no morals
and two more of those: still not true

Or this:
The Earth is flat
The Earth is flat
yadayada and so on and so forth and scooby dooby do.

Or this:
The Bible is true because the Bible says so
1 million times.

NONE OF IT IS TRUE

(And, I am a French model.)

All it means is that you said it five times, I get what you said, and I still disagree with it.
Just because it's on the Internet what your preacher says doesn't make it true.

originally posted by: windword

That's a fun article!

An article from an atheist whose whole purpose is to attack Christian religion?... Not exactly an unbiased source. Not to mention again that his claims are the same as those made by many of you here which have been responded several times... But mythicists like you simply don't want to accept. You want to attack Christian faith based on your own FAITH... Claims and assumptions which are false, and exaggerated.

Why does Seneca the Younger record all kinds of unusual natural phenomena in the seven books of his Quaestiones Naturales, including eclipses and earthquakes, but not mention the Star of Bethlehem, the pair of Judean earthquakes that were strong enough to split stones, or the hours of supernatural darkness that covered “all the land” – an event he would have witnessed firsthand?
...

First of all Seneca was born on on the 4th BC. When he wrote his book in 65 AD Christ had been dead by 30-35 years and Seneca was merely 4 years old.

I find it ironic how mythicists like you want to dismiss any evidence that was written after Jesus had been dead yet you are more than willing to make claims based on books that were written AFTER JESUS' DEATH...

And how in the world did you come to your conclusion that Caesar's comet was the Star of Bethlehem?... You are making an assumption with no real way to prove it right. It's a claim which you can't even prove...

...
In Ovid's poem, The Metamorphis, he describes the moment that J.C. was "taken up to the stars" and became a "God".
...

And you are taking the writings of a poet who "use artful manipulation" to try to convey Caesar as a divine entity...


So, based on historical and biblical records, we could safely say that Jesus was born in 44 BC and died in 79AD, making him around 135 when he was crucified!

You've got plenty of evidence for a mythical Jesus, a composite character, just in this thread alone!

(Reposted from this very thread)



What in the world?... You are taking completely random events which really have nothing to do with the topic and you claim they are evidence for your argument...

Sorry, but your argument is not only fallacious, but also flawed.

Because Caesar's armor was hung on a cross it does not prove he was Jesus...

Quick question to all the mythicists here. If you believe that the story of Jesus was made up, tell us when you think it was made up. Tell us the year you think it was made it, since you all seem to think to know exactly how and when it was made...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

An article from an atheist whose whole purpose is to attack Christian religion?... Not exactly an unbiased source.

Intelligent debaters attack the material presented and not the messenger.

First of all Seneca was born on on the 4th BC.

When was "The 4th BC."? When was Jesus born?

When he wrote his book in 65 AD

No, he died in 65 AD.

I find it ironic how mythicists like you want to dismiss any evidence that was written after Jesus had been dead yet you are more than willing to make claims based on books that were written AFTER JESUS' DEATH...

LOL Seneca the Younger would have been a contemporary of Jesus of Nazareth, if he existed.

And how in the world did you come to your conclusion that Caesar's comet was the Star of Bethlehem?...

Because no one, including Seneca the Younger, recorded any event like the "Star of Bethlehem" during that time period. The closest recorded event was Caesar's Comet. It was a major real and mystical event, and the only mystical and real event that really happened and was recorded by hundreds of witnesses, all across the globe.

And you are taking the writings of a poet who "use artful manipulation" to try to convey Caesar as a divine entity...

Ovid's poem describes the ascension of and the deification of Julius Caesar, that sounds an awful lot like the "artful manipulation of the story of Jesus' supposed ascension.

You are taking completely random events which really have nothing to do with the topic and you claim they are evidence for your argument...

Aaah! You missed the whole part about the eruption of Mt Vesuvius, which really happened, being just like the supposed events of the day Jesus, supposedly, died!

There's a thing called comparative mythology and/or comparative religions.

Look, I know it's hard for you to wrap your head around complex ideas and put the dots together when it comes to actual historic events, that really happened and mythical characters that supposedly explain some divine reason for those events. That's why I'm ready to repeat myself, for your simplistic understanding, time and time again.

I can't even remember the exact words I said or others said from this morning, but there are those that claim people remembered all Jesus said word for word and retold the stories to others who remembered them word for word and those people told the stories to others word for word and that repeated until someone wrote them down word for word.

Even those today with highly superior autobiographical memories who are extremely rare get it right about 97% of the time and they are still vulnerable to memory distortions so if there were people that could remember the stories word for word they would have been considered gods amongst men themselves even today.

So what is the chance of all those story keepers having highly superior autobiographical memories beyond what we know today?

What are the chances that the NT has recorded a historical Jesus? I would say it is almost certain that it doesn't to think otherwise would take what I do not have which is faith.

a reply to: Grimpachi

What are the chances that the NT has recorded a historical Jesus?

What are the chances the entire thing was fabricated and the man never existed, given all the arguments presented in this thread and in the academic community? Astronomically low, if you have been paying attention.

If you are going to use odds, you should at least be able to provide a reasonable explanation for how Christianity and the new testament came to be within 50 years (sometime between 40AD and 90AD) based entirely on a fictional character, yet it's greatest critics and enemies never even allude to the notion the man never existed, and extra biblical historians even cite his crucifixion.

No, you can't. The best mythicists can do is suggest the entire thing was based off of older religions, yet when it's pointed out that their theories hold no water by actual experts, they simply plug their ears and sing as loud as they can, while providing no viable theories as to how Christianity itself could have sprung up in under a century based entirely on a fictional character.

The arguments for a historical Jesus are CONSTANTLY ignored and never really refuted, while the mythicist position is completely void of facts, reason, and evidence. The bulk of the evidence sides with the notion of a historical Jesus, and this is so even among non-religious scholars. Yet here we have the usual suspects on ATS unable to rebut the claims in the slightest, yet claiming victory as usual.

I'm just going to leave this here, because it is a perfect example of the mythicist position, and how it continually plays out in these threads:

a reply to: DeadSeraph

What are the odds that Adam and Eve existed? How about Noah? Jonah? Moses? Ezekiel? Now, how about Jesus Christ?

They're all from the same book, telling the same stories of magical interference from their own God. What are the odds that these stories represent earthly reality, and aren't some allegorical message?

Odds are zip.......

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I dare you to say 'Candyman' three times infront of a mirror.......because that s*** works!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Just because it's on the Internet what your preacher says doesn't make it true.

I have no preacher except here at ATS.
By the way wiggs, how many of your companions out there in wawa wawa land ever let it be know exactly what their opinions are when they bite the dust? Real easy to knock the other guy but if the Jesus people are so wrong and so dumb then why not let them in on your great knowledge of what is the truth. You know the old science bit about the monkey kingdom or your grand paw was a cow chip in a barnyard a hundred million years ago. Stuff like that. By the way give the contemporary historical evidence while your at it. You know the old routine of giving the people contemporary evidence. Yeh gotta have that contemporary historical evidence rule or it ain't true.

a reply to: Seede

Real easy to knock the other guy but if the Jesus people are so wrong and so dumb then why not let them in on your great knowledge of what is the truth.

But, don't you see? That's what we're doing. "Christ" is a concept, not an historic person, that lived and died as a normal human. "Christ" is the divinity that exists in everything, the spark that ignites the mystery of life and that divine spark exists, eternally burning, in all living things.

"Christ" is a concept that is expressed, to some extent, in literally every religion, myth and philosophy that ever graced the planet. What is misguided is forcing people to believe that "Christ" is limited to the embodiment of a single human being, who may have lived and died 2000 years ago.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

I see you completely misunderstood what I said. Your post is a perfect example of how everyone is subject to distortions.

There is what I said and what you think I said yet they are completely different. I know you don't have a highly superior autobiographical memory, such a thing is rare only a handful of individuals have been identified to have it, but even they get things wrong.

The point is even if the disciples had highly superior autobiographical memories and retold the Christ story to others who had highly superior autobiographical memories they would have to tell others who had highly superior autobiographical memories until someone was able to write it all down.

As far as we know it isn't humanly possible for anyone to remember exactly what someone said even with those people who have highly superior autobiographical memories yet people like to claim the NT books have accurately recorded what a Jesus Christ said.

This is why I ask what are the chances of the NT recording a historical Jesus.

We know the NT has aspects of Greek mythology such as Tartarus which is Christian hell so someone obviously didn't have a highly superior autobiographical memory in the long line before these stories were recorded unless you believe a Jewish Jesus believed in Greek mythology.

Maybe you have a reasonable explanation for it all after you take a moment to comprehend what I am saying.

a reply to: windword

"Christ" is a concept that is expressed, to some extent, in literally every religion, myth and philosophy that ever graced the planet. What is misguided is forcing people to believe that "Christ" is limited to the embodiment of a single human being, who lived and died 2000 years ago.

And is not that concept the prerogative of any man or woman? Are Christians the only misguided people to accept a Christ? Even if they were the only people who adopt the concept of a Christ, which they are not by your admission, then are you not a hypocrite or prejudiced to continue to single out one particular group?

Why are Christians so very terrible to your mind when the world today is turned up side down with Islam cutting heads off the very Christians you despise? Not one word of dislike is written by most here on ATS. I wonder why that is? And now you write that the nasty old Christians are forcing people to believe in their Christ Jesus. Where and how is that happening today? Force to Believe? How do you force a mature mind to believe?

And what does 2,000 years ago have to do with any fact? Are you saying that 2,000 years is unbelievable when most all believe that this world is 15 billion years old? Christianity is old and out of date and yet the monkey idea can be touted for a million years without a doubt. At least that is what the secular educational system propagates in this country. Which by the way is well over twentieth in the world in education.

Getting back on track. There is evidence of Jesus in many avenues of accepted literature including the Munich Talmud . The Munich Talmud is accepted in the scholastic field but just not the Jesus thing. So if it has the Jesus thing in it then lets not talk about or give it a star. It appears that it is not the Christian who censors but the secularist who indeed does censor. That is a proven fact.

The OP used the word "evidence" and not the word "proof" and there is a world of difference between the two. There is evidence abound of the existence of Jesus and just about every time some evidence is given then the old secular rule is spouted that it has to be, Contemporary Historic, as though to say that you set the rules of debate and that all other ancient literature is bogus because it has to be, Contemporary Historic,.