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Is there evidence that Jesus Christ existed? Yes, there is.

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posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 03:16 AM
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The actual existence of Socrates does not change the fact of his wisdom or philosophy.

Of course, no outlandish set of superpowers are claimed for Socrates, which in minds of some probably adds to his credibility.

A Jesus existed, he may have been crucified and there were obviously several cults extant in 1st century Rome.

There were also cults that believed in Isis, Mithras and even the divine Emperors themselves.

The Jesus of the bible, Son of God, etc. etc. did not exist or at least there is no credible evidence of same than there is of Isis, et. al.
edit on 3Tue, 14 Apr 2015 03:19:18 -050015p032015466 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 03:23 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




The actual existence of Socrates does not change the fact of his wisdom or philosophy.


Nor does it do so for Jesus of Nazareth.



Of course, no outlandish set of superpowers are claimed for Socrates, which in minds of some probably adds to his credibility.


Depends on who you ask. Pythagoras was said to have some pretty nifty powers, yet nobody doubts his existence?



A Jesus existed, he may have been crucified and there were obviously several cults extant in 1st century Rome.


That has sort of been the contention from the 1st page.



There were also cults that believed in Isis, Mithras and even the divine Emperors themselves.


Good point. I guess we can discard everything we know about the Roman emperors because they were worshiped as God's by some?



The Jesus of the bible, Son of God, etc. etc. did not exist or at least there is no credible evidence of same than there is of Isis, et. al.


round and round we go! When we stop, only you know!



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 03:44 AM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

(In order of your comments)

Have I ever made one claim that the existence of the Jesus of the bible would change the value of his philosophy? No, in fact I have argued the contrary.

Is Pythagoras remembered for his magic powers or his theorem that any person can prove the truth of on any day?

And I have never stated otherwise, from whichever page I joined on.

Compare the evidence for Augustus and Isis and make your own best guess.

What a pointless post Seraph! I expect better of you. This is almost ... silly.
edit on 3Tue, 14 Apr 2015 03:45:46 -050015p032015466 by Gryphon66 because: Spelling



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 04:16 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




Have I ever made one claim that the existence of the Jesus of the bible would change the value of his philosophy? No, in fact I have argued the contrary.


Then why did you imply that Socrates was somehow more "real" based on his?



Is Pythagoras remembered for his magic powers or his theorem that any person can prove the truth of on any day?


Is Jesus remembered by his detractors (or even muslims) for rising from the dead, or his teachings?



Compare the evidence for Augustus and Isis and make your own best guess.


Compare the evidence for Pontius Pilate's execution of Jesus and "Hercules" and make yours.



What a pointless post Seraph! I expect better of you. This is almost ... silly.


Pointless to you, maybe. Laced with a bit of irony, perhaps, but definitely not pointless.



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 04:59 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

You can't even state your argument? (maybe because you don't even know what position are arguing from? IDK). The purpose of a debate is not to win (you can't really win a debate), it's to increase understanding of opposing view points. You make it very hard to accomplish this goal when you give vague answers like:
"The accounts do not match up. They do not corroborate each other." when asked to explain. is that an explanation of what you mean when you say they don't line up? Maybe I asked the wrong question. How are they not referencing the same event?

I can't write a thesis of an argument I obviously don't understand. That's why I am asking you , the purveyor of the argument, to write the thesis. But you don't want to. Why? I can assume, but that's about it.

If you think I'm grasping at straws after a post of questions about your position you are an odd person. I didn't make any contentions in my post, only questions. Which you answered only the one about thallus and I now understand that you think thallus was writing about a fictional event. That's a fair enough position. I'm not sure how asking you to clarify your position is dishonest or unfair.

ETA: It's not petty to correct a detail (feel free to correct mine, I'll thank you). It is petty to be mad that you were corrected. Check your ego brother.
edit on 14-4-2015 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-4-2015 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 08:08 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I've stated my argument throughout the thread. Read the thread. Ask a real legitimate question and set aside what you probably imagine as erudite posturing, and I'll respond. As such, you have done nothing but attempt restate my claims and present yourself as an authority of some sort.



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

I see you're in the mood to double down this morning.


Very well, in rough order of your responses:

I did not claim any "greater probability" for Socrates' existence. Read again what I said. The fact of Socrates' existence (which is either true or not) does not change in any way the reality, validity or importance of what he supposedly said ... OR ... as is more relevant to what I've argued here, what the figure of Socrates' represents to people or what they believe him to have been.

I can't speak for how all detractors (and Muslims? what the heck? they revere Him as a prophet!) or what is important to people about either a actual Yeshua/Jesus of the 1st century or the religious figure Jesus Christ, Son of God, et. al.

Why are you getting snippy? My evaluation of the two "Jesuses" is clearly stated. There is evidence (not great evidence, but evidence) for "a" Jesus there is NO EVIDENCE for a Jesus Christ Son of God et. al. and any comparison with the official "divinity" of the Roman Emperors is actually specious in the extreme, which I was going to pass over.

Eye of the beholder.

Best.



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite


How about some scientific studies, rather than a few blog posts, your vague implication that "you know", and some stories written by members of this site.

These are not just "a few blog posts" - they include treatises by professional psychologists, doctors of education, and sociologists. I myself have an advanced degree in psycho-social workings and human behavior, and decades of experience working with families/children and studying these things! Why is that not good enough for you? Can you trump my experience and education? What makes someone an expert, in your opinion?



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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Read: "The Bible Fraud" by Tony Bushby. It is all there.



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

We all know what is going on here. You can answer me honestly any time.



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Dfairlite


How about some scientific studies, rather than a few blog posts, your vague implication that "you know", and some stories written by members of this site.

These are not just "a few blog posts" - they include treatises by professional psychologists, doctors of education, and sociologists. I myself have an advanced degree in psycho-social workings and human behavior, and decades of experience working with families/children and studying these things! Why is that not good enough for you? Can you trump my experience and education? What makes someone an expert, in your opinion?



You can't be serious. For one thing the links you posted were found with nothing more than a simply lazy google search that I also did. After decades of studying I would figure you would have some kind of peer reviewed psychological analysis to pull out to support your accusations, but you don't. In fact the post from "debunkingchristianity.com" refers to phases of recovery fundamental Christians and does not support your broad claim that all Christianity causes child abuse or even damages children. The other link you provided and I read, a Salon.com article, again referring to fundamental Christian homeschooling not the entire religion of Christianity, as you claim, but more a criticism of homeschooling as a whole, which is not the discussion or the argument. Nothing you provided even remotely supports you baseless claim that Christianity damages children. Like said, it's your opinion and you can stick with it, but don't even try to purport it as fact.

So, with your "advanced degree in psycho-social workings and human behavior" including your job description with decades of experience working with families and children, I take you are a Social Worker. I'm not downplaying your job and I'm sure you help a lot of people, but no means does your experience and education make you an authority of the claim that Christianity damages or abuses children. Just be intellectually honest.

Religion can also be a source of good for people in need that seek direction and stability in life. It's not as evil as you think and it seems to me that the anti-Christian posters here do not even fully understand the religion and just focus on what they say are the evil and bad aspects and put those forward. My point is that it's not as bad as you all believe and that goes for all religions.

I will say that any fundamentalist view of any religion could be dangerous if done a certain way. However, not all Christians, Muslims and Jews are fundamentalists. Not every Christian is walking around depressed, with low self esteem thinking they are a sinner. The overwhelming majority of any religion are good people living regular lives and there are certain extreme/fundamentalists for all of them. I say that's an entirely different discussion that not any certain religion should be a focal point, but all of them.

Not only that, do you guys even focus on other religions at all? People also question is Mohammed exists as well and Islam can be viewed as violent religion as well. Do you go against Islam as vehemently as Christianity. So you guys are atheists and don't believe in God, think religion is nothing but a fairy tale that damages people for life. So, don't believe in anything. I don't see any here trying to convert you, it's you that are on the offensive. Religion is not going away, but you do not have to believe in religion.

Personally, I was raised a Christian and really don't consider myself a practicing Christian at all, and my kids will be the same way too. They go to public school and are getting a fantastic education. It doesn't concern me if Jesus existed or not. It's a tool to teach a moral lesson to them. It's used for good. I'm not going to tell them there is no God and Grandpa is nothing but a skeleton and bug food, instead of being in heaven watching over them. I'm comfortable with this as a parent, and they are intelligent, well-adjusted kids that care for others. Don't tell me I'm damaging my kids, I'm not atheist and I'm raising them how I want to. You raise your kids your way.

edit on 14-4-2015 by NYCUltra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: ParasuvO

I don't agree with generalizing a huge group of people just because they follow the teaching of Jesus or anyone else they choose to follow. You can have every opinion you want about religion but I know lots of people who happen to be Christian and still ask plenty of questions about everything. When speaking about matters of religion it revolves around how much more enlightened we are then the opposing view, its quite sad really.

cult - a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange

regardless of the definition you choose to use, its still a label in order to disrespect or stereotype a group of people as sheep. which, I can use the word sheep for people who claim no religion so lets start having some respect for others? eh?
edit on 14-4-2015 by JDmOKI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

So since Egypt and Rome had documentation of their gods and vast resources to show worship to them you find it crazy that we have little evidence to prove the existence of a poor carpenter from a poor town in a subjugated province?



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: NYCUltra


You can't be serious.

I am quite serious.
And if you'd actually read my posts, you'd see that we agree that only the FUNDAMENTALISTS (of every religion) are causing damage. The problem is that THOSE are the people trying to take over the world.

FFS -

Personally, I was raised a Christian and really don't consider myself a practicing Christian at all, and my kids will be the same way too. They go to public school and are getting a fantastic education. It doesn't concern me if Jesus existed or not. It's a tool to teach a moral lesson to them. It's used for good. I'm not going to tell them there is no God and Grandpa is nothing but a skeleton and bug food, instead of being in heaven watching over them. I'm comfortable with this as a parent, and they are intelligent, well-adjusted kids that care for others. Don't tell me I'm damaging my kids, I'm not atheist and I'm raising them how I want to. You raise your kids your way.


Then YOU are not part of the problem!! Why can't you join with those of us who protest the overbearing, shaming style of parenting that DOES damage children?

I raised my kids just like you did yours - I was raised a "Christian" as well, but don't practice (or believe it). The only message that matters for "good" is the Golden Rule.

I don't know why you've got your hackles up against me, when I agree with you.
And apparently you think I'm lying about my credentials or they are unworthy of your attention or respect.

IF YOU ARE NOT AN EVANGELICAL HOME-SCHOOLING BIGOT, then YOU are not the subject of the studies.
Nice job alienating and insulting others who actually know and are speaking out to promote the very kind of parenting you claim to practice.




posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: NYCUltra


Not only that, do you guys even focus on other religions at all? People also question is Mohammed exists as well and Islam can be viewed as violent religion as well. Do you go against Islam as vehemently as Christianity.

Who is "you guys"?

As for me, YES, I focus on ALL religions when they behave that way.



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: NYCUltra


For one thing the links you posted were found with nothing more than a simply lazy google search that I also did. After decades of studying I would figure you would have some kind of peer reviewed psychological analysis to pull out to support your accusations, but you don't.

I have plenty of sources, and dozens of non-fiction books by respected scholars....all of which I have read.
Why should I spend MY time teaching you, when you are obviously NOT LISTENING? Why should I spend hours and hours defending myself to YOU?

You are really pissing me off. So, I am done interacting with you. The links were ones I already knew about, dude.
I didn't see any real reason to 'prove' to you what I know. You would ignore it and spin it anyway.

That kind of attitude is a non-starter.

PS - click the link in my sig.

edit on 4/14/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Fine with me, I guess I hit a sour note and you decided to attack me when I respected you and just responded to your posts (I didn't intend to offend you). Just remember, you NEVER specifically said Fundamentalist Christianity. You said ALL Christianity damages children. Knowing that and proving my point, I will also stop interacting with you.
edit on 14-4-2015 by NYCUltra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 12:07 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

lmao you are only here because you hate Christians and you follow windword around because you think windword is an accurate source of information on the subject.

You have let your own bias on the subject shine with so many stars you should be prohibited from commenting on the subject. You LITERALLY suggested Christians should be eradicated (yet again) in a thread that has NOTHING to do with Christianity in the first place.

If that isn't confirmation bias, I don't know what is. But you make a good lap dog.
edit on 14-4-2015 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph




you are only here because you hate Christians


Why are you here?



posted on Apr, 14 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: windword

Because unlike you, I'm interested in history.



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